Jefferey Epstein found dead in jail cell

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#1,276
evillawyer said:
You really think knowing to stop at a stop sign and whether to cozy up with a dirty old man just looking for fresh, disposable meat come at the same stage of cognitive development?
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Probably not, but there are far more judgments to be made when driving than whether to stop when a sign says stop. I don't think most adolescents have the cognitive development to decide how to vote either, but that didn't change the decision to lower the voting age some time ago. That was something along the same arguments you are making ... that old enough to follow military orders should be old enough to vote and to drink. In the end you and I aren't going to see the issue of age and accountability in the same light - with some of that due to political conviction and some due to sociological beliefs.
 
#1,277
#1,277
utvols88 said:
The road to him being murdered has more support than suicide so it's not outrageous to surmise it is the case. Whether a hit was called by Trump or the Clinton's remains to be seen. Hopefully the investigation is independent and reveals the truth.
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What evidence is there that this was homicide, not suicide? The broken bones thing? As reported that could be from either.
 
#1,278
#1,278
lawgator1 said:
What evidence is there that this was homicide, not suicide? The broken bones thing? As reported that could be from either.
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Missing video as well. I hope itll work itself out but In regards to the broken bones, it's more likely than not that its strangulation. It at the very least warrants an investigation. Using that and difficulty in committing suicide at this prison is high, it is more than fair for someone to assume there is something more than suicide.
 
#1,282
#1,282
AM64 said:
Sorry, I've seen that. Gold digger still comes to mind. Multiple wrongs doesn't make anybody right. Perhaps I'm simply too jaded by all the women who start coming out of the woodwork about things that were done "to them" when there's money to be made.
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She was a child. Big big difference.
 
#1,284
#1,284
utvols88 said:
Missing video as well. I hope itll work itself out but In regards to the broken bones, it's more likely than not that its strangulation. It at the very least warrants an investigation. Using that and difficulty in committing suicide at this prison is high, it is more than fair for someone to assume there is something more than suicide.
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First, you mischaracterize it severely when you say "missing video." That assumes video at one time existed, and is now gone. News reports are that the cameras were not functioning at the time. Big difference.

Second, in the absence of a sound reason to conclude that the cameras not working was intentional -- of which I have heard none -- then the fact that the cameras were not working is not evidence of anything beyond bad maintenance.

So far, everything that has been reported is that there was really bad management of the facility. But that does not translate at all into concluding the guy was killed.
 
#1,285
#1,285
C-south said:
I’m not rationalizing anything just showing the hypocrisy of laws when it comes to age and adulthood.
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If driving is your proof then there really isn't any hypocrisy unless you're twisting things to support statutory rape. Keep fighting the good fight
 
#1,286
#1,286
lawgator1 said:
First, you mischaracterize it severely when you say "missing video." That assumes video at one time existed, and is now gone. News reports are that the cameras were not functioning at the time. Big difference.

Second, in the absence of a sound reason to conclude that the cameras not working was intentional -- of which I have heard none -- then the fact that the cameras were not working is not evidence of anything beyond bad maintenance.

So far, everything that has been reported is that there was really bad management of the facility. But that does not translate at all into concluding the guy was killed.
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How convenient that the most used "cameras dont work" is on the table here. Could they have been not working intentionally? Sure. I'm not saying he was murdered or that he committed suicide. I've moved on with the mindset that the truth wouldn't come out if it wasnt suicide anyways.
 
#1,287
#1,287
lawgator1 said:
First, you mischaracterize it severely when you say "missing video." That assumes video at one time existed, and is now gone. News reports are that the cameras were not functioning at the time. Big difference.

Second, in the absence of a sound reason to conclude that the cameras not working was intentional -- of which I have heard none -- then the fact that the cameras were not working is not evidence of anything beyond bad maintenance.

So far, everything that has been reported is that there was really bad management of the facility. But that does not translate at all into concluding the guy was killed.
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Certainly a lot of coincidences that allowed this to happen.

Epstein removed from suicide watch.

Guards asleep, not checking as required.

Cellmate removed, Epstein now alone.

Video monitors not functioning at the time.

Good thing he wasn't a high profile prisoner that potentially had dirt on some very important people.

What are the odds?

Rule 39: There Is No Such Thing As Coincidence
 
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#1,288
#1,288
lawgator1 said:
First, you mischaracterize it severely when you say "missing video." That assumes video at one time existed, and is now gone. News reports are that the cameras were not functioning at the time. Big difference.

Second, in the absence of a sound reason to conclude that the cameras not working was intentional -- of which I have heard none -- then the fact that the cameras were not working is not evidence of anything beyond bad maintenance.

So far, everything that has been reported is that there was really bad management of the facility. But that does not translate at all into concluding the guy was killed.
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Seems to be a lot of evidence starting to leak out that looks like he might not have committed suicide as well. Camera not working, overworked guards one not even a guard, roommate getting transfered the day before, taken off of suicide watch for questionable reasons, broken bones in neck associated with strangulation, etc.
 
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#1,289
#1,289
lawgator1 said:
First, you mischaracterize it severely when you say "missing video." That assumes video at one time existed, and is now gone. News reports are that the cameras were not functioning at the time. Big difference.

Second, in the absence of a sound reason to conclude that the cameras not working was intentional -- of which I have heard none -- then the fact that the cameras were not working is not evidence of anything beyond bad maintenance.

So far, everything that has been reported is that there was really bad management of the facility. But that does not translate at all into concluding the guy was killed.
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You are absolutely correct. Just because Epstien got lucky that the camera system just happened to malfunction, one of the guards on shft wasn't a trained guard and they ALL decided to take a nap at the same time on THE night he decides to off himself is just pure happenstance. Means nothing.
 
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#1,291
#1,291
utvolpj said:
If driving is your proof then there really isn't any hypocrisy unless you're twisting things to support statutory rape. Keep fighting the good fight
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I personally think sleeping with anyone under 18 is sick and honestly anyone younger than you by 15 years is weird unless your both over 40....but 16 is not statutory in every state. I was shocked to learn some states are 16 with no four year age gap requirement.

Personally the whole thing is sick and messed up but our society is so ungodly anymore and the lines are getting so blurred that I suspect in the next three decades sex with minors will become acceptable too.
 
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#1,292
#1,292
lawgator1 said:
First, you mischaracterize it severely when you say "missing video." That assumes video at one time existed, and is now gone. News reports are that the cameras were not functioning at the time. Big difference.

Second, in the absence of a sound reason to conclude that the cameras not working was intentional -- of which I have heard none -- then the fact that the cameras were not working is not evidence of anything beyond bad maintenance.

So far, everything that has been reported is that there was really bad management of the facility. But that does not translate at all into concluding the guy was killed.
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He got the hard time headlock bro.
 
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#1,293
#1,293
utvols88 said:
How convenient that the most used "cameras dont work" is on the table here. Could they have been not working intentionally? Sure. I'm not saying he was murdered or that he committed suicide. I've moved on with the mindset that the truth wouldn't come out if it wasnt suicide anyways.
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Well that's convenient: "Even if the facts are that he committed suicicde, I just choose not to believe it."

You, sir, have a job waiting for you at Fox News or in the Trump administration. Maybe both.
 
#1,294
#1,294
NEOCON said:
I personally think sleeping with anyone under 18 is sick and honestly anyone younger than you by 15 years is weird unless your both over 40....but 16 is not statutory in every state. I was shocked to learn some states are 16 with no four year age gap requirement.

Personally the whole thing is sick and messed up but our society is so ungodly anymore and the lines are getting so blurred that I suspect in the next three decades sex with minors will become acceptable too.
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Your math is convoluted, the general rule is half your age plus 7 is the minimum.
 
#1,296
#1,296
lawgator1 said:
Well that's convenient: "Even if the facts are that he committed suicicde, I just choose not to believe it."

You, sir, have a job waiting for you at Fox News or in the Trump administration. Maybe both.
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What facts, at this point? Hes dead. Could be suicide or homicide. A ruling has not come out about his death, at this point. Assumptions on both sides are equal. If you could, for once, leave trump out of your arguments, we may take them seriously.
 
#1,297
#1,297
37L1 said:
Certainly a lot of coincidences that allowed this to happen.

Epstein removed from suicide watch.

Having dealt with suicide watch cases in the past, it is not unusual for people to be removed from it within a matter of days or a week. Sounds to me like he fooled the counselor on it.


Guards asleep, not checking as required.

Apparently a chronic problem at this facility. Not unique to this situation.

Cellmate removed, Epstein now alone.

We don't yet know why that happened. For all we know single celling him was a decision based on his safety.

Video monitors not functioning at the time.

Should be looked into but as of now sounds again as thought it was chronic problem.

Good thing he wasn't a high profile prisoner that potentially had dirt on some very important people.

About 90 % of them have "dirt" on other people because they are criminals. Its not like he was a flight risk. If he had no cellmate there was no risk of him being assaulted. That leaves suicide and if the counselor cleared him this is just not that surprising.


What are the odds?

Rule 39: There Is No Such Thing As Coincidence
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See above. Its not coincidence, it is shoddy running of the facility. What is worrisome are comments like those above that, if it does prove to be what it appears, a suicide, then you just are not going to accept that.

Trump is counting on people having such poor reasoning skills.
 
#1,298
#1,298
utvols88 said:
What facts, at this point? Hes dead. Could be suicide or homicide. A ruling has not come out about his death, at this point. Assumptions on both sides are equal. If you could, for once, leave trump out of your arguments, we may take them seriously.
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Oh, please. Trump made himself part of the story (as usual) by retweeting the Clinton conspiracy crap. Don't blame me for making an issue of it when Trump himself did so over the weekend.
 
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