Jones VS Strong

[SaluteToTheHill]

I was a bit confused and frustrated by the hire last week but I did a lot of research on Butch Jones this weekend and the more I learn about him the more I like him. Here are few things that make me feel better about the hire.

Most people would have been happy with Charlie Strong yet they are upset over hiring Butch Jones. A comparison between Strong and Jones, I think is an excellent indicator because they coach in the same conference, have been head coach in that conference for three years each and play head to head every year. I have heard concerns over Jones recruiting because he has only recruited two 4 star players to Cincinnati and no 5 stars. Strong on the other hand has recruited ten 4 stars with no 5 stars to Louisville. On the surface that could look like a negative, however Butch Jones’ Bearcats have beat Charlie Strong’s Cardinals two of the three years they have played. Strong’s only win over Jones was a 34-31 OT win at Louisville. One thing I like that I have heard over and over about Jones’ teams is that they over achieve.



Recruiting Classes

Charlie Strong – Louisville, 3 year average - 40

2012 – 42

2011 – 29

2010 - 48



Butch Jones – Cincinnati, 3 year average - 53

2012 – 50

2011 – 49

2010 - 59



Win/Loss Record

Charlie Strong – 24-14

Butch Jones – 50-27



Jones has won four conference championships in six seasons as a head coach, including the Big East title in 2011 and 2012 with Cincinnati and the 2007 and 2009 Mid-American Conference titles at Central Michigan. He earned Big East Conference Coach of the Year honors from the league after his 10-win season with the Bearcats in 2011 and earned the same honor from CBSSports.com this season. He will have a much tougher challenge ahead of him but I think if you can coach and consistently beat your peers at a lower level there is a good chance you can do it at a higher level. Both Nick Saban and Les Miles took a similar path to success in the SEC. Neither had SEC experience when they got here but like Butch Jones they were winners. Bottom line is he has won everywhere he has been. Something that could not be said about the previous coach.



**To me, this is pretty much sums it up**

In Butch Jones three years at Cincinnati, Charlie Strong brought a higher ranked recruiting class every year yet lost to the Bearcats two of the three years AND in those three years Butch Jones put SIX guys in the NFL while I can’t find a single Louisville player that has entered the league while Strong has been their head coach. To me that is superior coaching. Time will tell but we may have gotten the better of the two.

What say you?

 

[1967vol]

Nice post. Thanks.

 

[81Bubbavol]

I liked the fact that CCS had been a successful DC in the SEC for several years. I'm cautiously optimistic about CBJ. It would be nice to overachieve at something for a change.

 

[volsincebirth]

I was mad, like a lot of people at first. But I'm happy with Jones now. Anybody would have a hard time with our schedule next year, so I know there are some hard times a head short term. But Jones has me excited again. It gas been a long time since I've felt that way. I'm really excited about it now that he is bring Tee back.

 

[fade route]

The only thing that scares me about BJ is his decision to hire Willie Martinez to coach our already pathetic secondary. This really scares me.

 

[UTvolinBGKY]

Charlie Strong is up there with the most overrated coachs in America.

 

[Miavol]

Good post, also Jones has brought his hold staff. This will make a hugh difference. I just hope we can get T. Martin away frim Kiffin. Would be great for PR.

 

[Vol-in-Atlanta]

Completely unrelated, but do we have any idea what Jones is planning to do with the "maxims?" Dooley resurrected them and they've always seemed antiquated and hokey - "putting on steam" etc. I wish jones would punt on this.....No disrespect to the General, but that was a different time.

 

[sjt18]

Between the two of them, Miles and Saban had one championship when they came to the SEC. Miles had never been higher than 3rd in the Big 12 South. Saban won the MAC in his single season at Toledo then finished 5th, 5th, 6th, 6th, and 2nd in the Big 10 before escaping to LSU.

Saban was by definition a desperate hire of a mediocre coach by a program that had been down for awhile.

 

[DL916]

Hey listen here now. You take your facts down the road. Remember guys don't let facts get in the way of making bad decisions.

 

[JMSqb11]

My frustration is that after we settled, we didn't settle for a coach who is an expert in our weakness: Defense. I had a knee jerk reaction to Butch being hired and I am still gonna have to wait and see to buy in because I did with Dooley. Everyone was praising his presser when hired like they are doing now with Butch. Call me a Vol hater, but I can't buy in to a coach that we settled for and wasn't even on our radar. I give mad respect to Butch because he wanted to be here and I have no hate for him at all. It's just the AD botched this hire on so many levels. If they can't get excited a out pursuing people in a coaching search, why should I?

 

[BeecherVol]

If you disregard the fact that Jones took over from a successful coach that had won 10, 11, and 12 games in the seasons prior to him being there and add that to Strong taking over after 6,5, and 4 win seasons prior to him taking over at Louisville then yes, on paper Jones has been superior.

While both would/will have questions to answer at UT and the SEC, Strong has answered one them with his stint Louisville where Jones is still a question in that regard.

Jones may turn out to be a great coach here but my worries are with his previous 2 stints being 3 years long. Can he recruit in this league at the level required win championships?

 

[UT's#1Fan]

yea plus you can't spell Butch without UT!! HAR HAR HAR

If I hear that on the radio or se eit on here being used in a serious context one more time i'm gonna punch a baby in face.

 

[Alumni_06]

I liked the fact that CCS had been a successful DC in the SEC for several years. I'm cautiously optimistic about CBJ. It would be nice to overachieve at something for a change.

Easy to do when the state is already filled with 5* players and FSU and Miami are down. Not to mention most players dont wanna leave the state due to the weather and lifestyle. Could he have done the same at TN?

 

[Theshag]

More telling might be the three years prior to his time at Cinci. A big knock against Jones is that he only won with Brian Kelly's guys. Here are the rankings for the three years prior to each of their tenure's:

Cincinnati:

2007: 89
2008: 67
2009: 60

Louisville:

2007: 41
2008: 55
2009: 76

Every year except 2009 Cinci was getting out recruited by Louisville. Jones came in and improved their national rank by about 10-15 spots and gave a good showing with those recruits who weren't exactly the nation's best athletes.

I think the jury is out on Jones, but I am cautiously optimistic about this.

 

[DjCrenshaw]

My frustration is that after we settled, we didn't settle for a coach who is an expert in our weakness: Defense. I had a knee jerk reaction to Butch being hired and I am still gonna have to wait and see to buy in because I did with Dooley. Everyone was praising his presser when hired like they are doing now with Butch. Call me a Vol hater, but I can't buy in to a coach that we settled for and wasn't even on our radar. I give mad respect to Butch because he wanted to be here and I have no hate for him at all. It's just the AD botched this hire on so many levels. If they can't get excited a out pursuing people in a coaching search, why should I?

Sums it up nicely

 

[TNRazor]

The only thing that scares me about BJ is his decision to hire Willie Martinez to coach our already pathetic secondary. This really scares me.

Martinez is a good positon coach, and a decent recruiter, now if Jones moves him to DC we might be in trouble

 

[pasadenavol]

I'll be honest, when I heard of the hire I was upset. I thought Hart and Cheek had screwed us again, but the more I read and hear about CBJ, the more I am ready to jump back on the rollercoaster that is UT Football the past decade.

It has been way too long since UT had an overachieving coach. If you look at the glory days of the mid-late 90's under Fulmer, we were pulling in the top recruiting classes in the SEC year after year, so we performed on par with our expectations. Kiffin didn't overachieve the year he was here (see blowout losses to Ole Miss and VaTech) and Dooley certainly didn't have our team overachieving.

It remains to be seen, but based on what he's done with limited talent in the past, CBJ might have this team overachieving. I'll hold judgement until I see the product on the field next Fall...

 

[JMSqb11]

Easy to do when the state is already filled with 5* players and FSU and Miami are down. Not to mention most players dont wanna leave the state due to the weather and lifestyle. Could he have done the same at TN?

So basically Strong's recruiting record at Florida is just a resume stuffer and something he didn't work at? If you believe that, you're a moron. Strong had to recruit for a coach that many didn't believe would workout. Top that with Urban being an offensive minded coach, that speaks volumes.

 

[volgrl]

I think we pursued Strong over Jones primarily because A. he has a history in the SEC and B. he is a defense minded coach. I was just as skeptical about Strong as I was Jones but his resume seemed to fit our needs better. I have since, changed my mind. After reading all the analyses of the two coaches and listening to the talking heads...I think we have a solid hire who wants to be here!

 

[SaluteToTheHill]

More telling might be the three years prior to his time at Cinci. A big knock against Jones is that he only won with Brian Kelly's guys. Here are the rankings for the three years prior to each of their tenure's:

Cincinnati:

2007: 89
2008: 67
2009: 60

Louisville:

2007: 41
2008: 55
2009: 76

Every year except 2009 Cinci was getting out recruited by Louisville. Jones came in and improved their national rank by about 10-15 spots and gave a good showing with those recruits who weren't exactly the nation's best athletes.

I think the jury is out on Jones, but I am cautiously optimistic about this.

You are absolutely correct. I was saving this for when someone said he took over a stacked team from Kelly.

 

[sjt18]

My frustration is that after we settled, we didn't settle for a coach who is an expert in our weakness: Defense. I had a knee jerk reaction to Butch being hired and I am still gonna have to wait and see to buy in because I did with Dooley. Everyone was praising his presser when hired like they are doing now with Butch. Call me a Vol hater, but I can't buy in to a coach that we settled for and wasn't even on our radar. I give mad respect to Butch because he wanted to be here and I have no hate for him at all. It's just the AD botched this hire on so many levels. If they can't get excited a out pursuing people in a coaching search, why should I?

If he wins... NO ONE except maybe you will admit to having called it a botched hire.

As for D, the HC doesn't have to be a defensive expert. He has to be able to hire one and hold him accountable.

One of the things that bothered me most about this past season and Dooley's performance was that the season was long gone before he talked about getting more involved with the defense or attempted to make changes.

If a guy is failing as bad as Sunseri did then you have to do something after Akron... maybe even relieve him of DC duties at some later point.

 

[Bluetic]

Jones>Strong

 

[finn]

My frustration is that after we settled, we didn't settle for a coach who is an expert in our weakness: Defense. I had a knee jerk reaction to Butch being hired and I am still gonna have to wait and see to buy in because I did with Dooley. Everyone was praising his presser when hired like they are doing now with Butch. Call me a Vol hater, but I can't buy in to a coach that we settled for and wasn't even on our radar. I give mad respect to Butch because he wanted to be here and I have no hate for him at all. It's just the AD botched this hire on so many levels. If they can't get excited a out pursuing people in a coaching search, why should I?

How can you say with such confidence that Hart 'botched this hire on so many levels?'

Is it because:
1. Gruden did not want to return to college football and it was a complete unknown how he would pan out at this level any way?
2. He reportedly went after Gundy who is already making a ton at a school that has boosters that make Haslam look like chump change (ie...a bidding war we would never win?)
3. Strong didn't want to leave Louisville for a variety of reasons; one of which being his new fat contract.

Who should Hart have hired that you would have found satisfying and just how much money should he have been willing to pay? A lot of folks on here are happy to spend like drunken sailors as long as it's somebody else's money but at what point does common sense and business sense enter the equation. Hart is tasked with running a business and is unfortunatley constrained by reality unlike the fanbase.

There are only a handful of surefire, slam dunk coaching hires out there. Everyone is ultimately a gamble and that includes Gruden. We won't fully know the outcome of this hire for a couple years. Until then, at least give the guy a chance.

 

[PACKERVOL]

Good post, also Jones has brought his hold staff. This will make a hugh difference. I just hope we can get T. Martin away frim Kiffin. Would be great for PR.

He's not bringing his whole staff. He's bringing 5 out of his 9 assistants. Jay stays at RB coach, two D coaches are coming in from Auburn, and we're holding out hope that Tee gets on board. Multiple posters are saying that T is on campus today to intervew for the remaining open position. But nothing official to confirm that.