Jones VS Strong

#26
#26
Vol-in-Atlanta said:
Completely unrelated, but do we have any idea what Jones is planning to do with the "maxims?" Dooley resurrected them and they've always seemed antiquated and hokey - "putting on steam" etc. I wish jones would punt on this.....No disrespect to the General, but that was a different time.
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U gotta be f'n kidding me.. U new to this UT football thing, son?
 
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#27
#27
JMSqb11 said:
So basically Strong's recruiting record at Florida is just a resume stuffer and something he didn't work at? If you believe that, you're a moron. Strong had to recruit for a coach that many didn't believe would workout. Top that with Urban being an offensive minded coach, that speaks volumes.
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Yeah I'm sure it was real tough recruiting at uf during their prime and Meyer.. Who might be one of he best recruiters of all time..
 
#28
#28
sjt18 said:
Between the two of them, Miles and Saban had one championship when they came to the SEC. Miles had never been higher than 3rd in the Big 12 South. Saban won the MAC in his single season at Toledo then finished 5th, 5th, 6th, 6th, and 2nd in the Big 10 before escaping to LSU.

Saban was by definition a desperate hire of a mediocre coach by a program that had been down for awhile.
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Saban took over a terrible Michigan State program and built them into a legitimate Big 10 contender. He also had a victory over a number one ranked team on the road. He was anything but a desperate hire.
 
#29
#29
Vol-in-Atlanta said:
Completely unrelated, but do we have any idea what Jones is planning to do with the "maxims?" Dooley resurrected them and they've always seemed antiquated and hokey - "putting on steam" etc. I wish jones would punt on this.....No disrespect to the General, but that was a different time.
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Wash your mouth out with soap!!!!
 
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#30
#30
I didn't want Strong, at all.

We dodged a bullet with that one. We'd have never been able to get rid of him, had he turned out to be a loser.. Any mention of getting rid of him would have been met with accusations of racism, imo.

I get that crap everyday on the politics boards. I do NOT want it creeping into my UT life.
 
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#31
#31
Hopvol said:
Time will tell but we may have gotten the better of the two.

What say you?
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I say we got the better one. Was never comfortable with Gruden, Gundy, or Strong for various reasons. I think that the best hire of the 4 for UT OVERALL was Jones. JMO.

Gruden may have been an uber recruiter, but I am still not sure he could have followed the rules. When the NCAA had to step on his toes once or twice he may have said screw it and gone back to the NFL. He was going to be VERY expensive also with NO guarantee to win.

I have never been comfortable with him since the "I'm a man" tirade. I also don't think he would make it in a conference where you have to play defense.

Just wasn't comfortable with Strong, don't know why.

I believe Jones is the best of the 4 for UT and I am more comfortable with him than strong due to his ability to win where he has been.
 
#32
#32
TNGlen said:
I say we got the better one. Was never comfortable with Gruden, Gundy, or Strong for various reasons. I think that the best hire of the 4 for UT OVERALL was Jones. JMO.

Gruden may have been an uber recruiter, but I am still not sure he could have followed the rules. When the NCAA had to step on his toes once or twice he may have said screw it and gone back to the NFL. He was going to be VERY expensive also with NO guarantee to win.

I have never been comfortable with him since the "I'm a man" tirade. I also don't think he would make it in a conference where you have to play defense.

Just wasn't comfortable with Strong, don't know why.

I believe Jones is the best of the 4 for UT and I am more comfortable with him than strong due to his ability to win where he has been.
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Charlie Strong hasn't won? He took over a horrid roster left by Kragthorpe and in three years is taking them to a BCS bowl.
 
#33
#33
Negateer said:
I didn't want Strong, at all.

We dodged a bullet with that one. We'd have never been able to get rid of him, had he turned out to be a loser.. Any mention of getting rid of him would have been met with accusations of racism, imo.

I get that crap everyday on the politics boards. I do NOT want it creeping into my UT life.
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You know Joker Phillips and Sylvester Croom were fired and nobody cried racism.
 
#34
#34
Vol-in-Atlanta said:
Completely unrelated, but do we have any idea what Jones is planning to do with the "maxims?" Dooley resurrected them and they've always seemed antiquated and hokey - "putting on steam" etc. I wish jones would punt on this.....No disrespect to the General, but that was a different time.
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:blink:
 
#35
#35
Boston Vol said:
Charlie Strong hasn't won? He took over a horrid roster left by Kragthorpe and in three years is taking them to a BCS bowl.
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Did I say that? I just said I wasn't comfortable with him. Don't construe the last statement as saying Strong didn't win, Jones just has a better track record at it than Strong does.
 
#36
#36
Negateer said:
I didn't want Strong, at all.

We dodged a bullet with that one. We'd have never been able to get rid of him, had he turned out to be a loser.. Any mention of getting rid of him would have been met with accusations of being a Negavol/Bama fan, imo.

I get that crap everyday on the politics boards. I do NOT want it creeping into my UT life.
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fyp
 
#38
#38
TNGlen said:
Did I say that? I just said I wasn't comfortable with him. Don't construe the last statement as saying Strong didn't win, Jones just has a better track record at it than Strong does.
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Well he has been a Head Coach for three more years. So, I would hope he has a better track record.
 
#41
#41
Boston Vol said:
Well all due respect that's insane. Look at the future pros on Cinncy's 2010 roster and compare that with U of L's roster.
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I know it sounds crazy doesn't it? I couldn't believe it either when I started looking at the numbers but the idea that Kelly left a stacked team for Jones is just not true. Jones actually recruited much better than Kelly. The media and fan hype would lead you to believe otherwise but here is a comparison of Kelly's classes compared to Kragthorpe's.

Brian Kelly - Cincinnati, 3 year average - 72
2007 - 89
2008 - 67
2009 - 60

In fact the Louisville team Strong took over had more talent than the team Kelly left for Jones (At least going by recruit ranking) which leads me back to superior coaching. Getting more out of your players.

Steve Kragthorpe - Louisville, 3 year average - 57
2007 - 41
2008 - 55
2009 - 76

Don't mistake talent for production. A coach's job is to get his players to play at or above their talent. I think Jones can do that which will be a welcome change. Recruiting rankings are certainly not the end all be all but they do give some idea of projected talent level. What I take from this is that Brian Kelly done an excellent job at getting the most out of his players but the argument could be made that Butch Jones done an even better job of that.
 
#42
#42
BeecherVol said:
If you disregard the fact that Jones took over from a successful coach that had won 10, 11, and 12 games in the seasons prior to him being there and add that to Strong taking over after 6,5, and 4 win seasons prior to him taking over at Louisville then yes, on paper Jones has been superior.

While both would/will have questions to answer at UT and the SEC, Strong has answered one them with his stint Louisville where Jones is still a question in that regard.

Jones may turn out to be a great coach here but my worries are with his previous 2 stints being 3 years long. Can he recruit in this league at the level required win championships?
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/thread
 
#43
#43
Hopvol said:
I was a bit confused and frustrated by the hire last week but I did a lot of research on Butch Jones this weekend and the more I learn about him the more I like him. Here are few things that make me feel better about the hire.

Most people would have been happy with Charlie Strong yet they are upset over hiring Butch Jones. A comparison between Strong and Jones, I think is an excellent indicator because they coach in the same conference, have been head coach in that conference for three years each and play head to head every year. I have heard concerns over Jones recruiting because he has only recruited two 4 star players to Cincinnati and no 5 stars. Strong on the other hand has recruited ten 4 stars with no 5 stars to Louisville. On the surface that could look like a negative, however Butch Jones’ Bearcats have beat Charlie Strong’s Cardinals two of the three years they have played. Strong’s only win over Jones was a 34-31 OT win at Louisville. One thing I like that I have heard over and over about Jones’ teams is that they over achieve.



Recruiting Classes

Charlie Strong – Louisville, 3 year average - 40

2012 – 42

2011 – 29

2010 - 48



Butch Jones – Cincinnati, 3 year average - 53

2012 – 50

2011 – 49

2010 - 59



Win/Loss Record

Charlie Strong – 24-14

Butch Jones – 50-27



Jones has won four conference championships in six seasons as a head coach, including the Big East title in 2011 and 2012 with Cincinnati and the 2007 and 2009 Mid-American Conference titles at Central Michigan. He earned Big East Conference Coach of the Year honors from the league after his 10-win season with the Bearcats in 2011 and earned the same honor from CBSSports.com this season. He will have a much tougher challenge ahead of him but I think if you can coach and consistently beat your peers at a lower level there is a good chance you can do it at a higher level. Both Nick Saban and Les Miles took a similar path to success in the SEC. Neither had SEC experience when they got here but like Butch Jones they were winners. Bottom line is he has won everywhere he has been. Something that could not be said about the previous coach.



**To me, this is pretty much sums it up**

In Butch Jones three years at Cincinnati, Charlie Strong brought a higher ranked recruiting class every year yet lost to the Bearcats two of the three years AND in those three years Butch Jones put SIX guys in the NFL while I can’t find a single Louisville player that has entered the league while Strong has been their head coach. To me that is superior coaching. Time will tell but we may have gotten the better of the two.

What say you?
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liked jones better out of the 2
 
#44
#44
sjt18 said:
If he wins... NO ONE except maybe you will admit to having called it a botched hire.

As for D, the HC doesn't have to be a defensive expert. He has to be able to hire one and hold him accountable.

One of the things that bothered me most about this past season and Dooley's performance was that the season was long gone before he talked about getting more involved with the defense or attempted to make changes.

If a guy is failing as bad as Sunseri did then you have to do something after Akron... maybe even relieve him of DC duties at some later point.
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But here's my point I am not mad at Butch Jones but what about Butch makes you think he'll hire a great defensive staff. He is bringing his DC, who will get a pay raise just because he is coming from UC to UT. Has his DC done anything to deserve a shot as a SEC DC?
 
#45
#45
JMSqb11 said:
But here's my point I am not mad at Butch Jones but what about Butch makes you think he'll hire a great defensive staff. He is bringing his DC, who will get a pay raise just because he is coming from UC to UT. Has his DC done anything to deserve a shot as a SEC DC?
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He needs cohesiveness and coaches that know his system. Keeping Graham and additions of Thigpin, and hopefully Martin will be great for recruiting.
 
#46
#46
Hopvol said:
He needs cohesiveness and coaches that know his system. Keeping Graham and additions of Thigpin, and hopefully Martin will be great for recruiting.
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But that's what I don't understand. It goes both ways. People use the argument he needs the familiarity on the staff, but that doesn't make it the greatest staff. I mean most of these guys are just gonna get pay increases. Where's the searching for the best staff at? I just can't be sold and won over by Butch's presser and his coaching staff decisions. I may be an old Scrooge but I will have to make it to offseason to see if this is indeed the right hire.
 
#47
#47
JMSqb11 said:
But that's what I don't understand. It goes both ways. People use the argument he needs the familiarity on the staff, but that doesn't make it the greatest staff. I mean most of these guys are just gonna get pay increases. Where's the searching for the best staff at? I just can't be sold and won over by Butch's presser and his coaching staff decisions. I may be an old Scrooge but I will have to make it to offseason to see if this is indeed the right hire.
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I see your point, only time will tell. I just feel good about having a guy who has a history of winning.
 
#49
#49
Boston Vol said:
Charlie Strong hasn't won? He took over a horrid roster left by Kragthorpe and in three years is taking them to a BCS bowl.
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IT WAS A 1 MAN SHOW!!! Yeah I know he is the one who got Teddy to the ville, but anybody with half a brain could see that Teddy bailed them out time and TIME again.
 
#50
#50
Can you guys imagine how funny The Charlie Strong Show would have been on Sundays? "Well Bob, I axed the offensa line to curry this team." :) Flame away...:popcorn:
 
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