Kellie Harper discussion/debate thread [merged]

[Coach Jumper]

Sounds like this generation of kids is not hitting the practice courts like previous ones did. Free throw shooting is a stat that shouldn't vary all that much generation to generation, unless players stop practicing them.....

coaches, all the way up and down the ladder fall short in teaching mechanics of the game. They put players into layup lines expecting this to help, when actually teaching the mechanics of the skill is what is needed. Like foulshots, for instance, if not taught properly,,,all personal-time practicing does is make a person very good at doing something mechanically very wrong.

When teaching foulshots you have to look at the shooter from side, back and front

from the side: to look at overall mechanics and arc of the ball in flight...from the front: hand positions throughout the process, elbow, breathing, release,,,from the back: follow through and how the ball enters the hoop....also focal point (there are two): over the front of the rim (if struggling) or targeting the inside half-diamond of the back of the net (if in a good shooting mode).

Do they release the ball and hold their follow long enough or do they drop their follow too quickly. Are they releasing half of the breath on shot transition and exhaling at the point of release? Do they try to shoot a foulshot like their jumpshot?

There is a heckuva lot more than just standing at a line and jacking up reps

 

[Coach Jumper]

So you are a real fan and those who have a different opinion are not ?

Darth is not and he has proven it many many many times

 

[Rickster]

They are fans too. They just disagree with you and you are too immature to allow them to have their say without throwing a fit.

If you are through holding your breath and rolling around on the floor trying to make people think you are the aggrieved party, maybe you could go look up stats that make a case against what Darth posted, or show his stats to be wrong. Otherwise you concede the point just like you always do --- gracelessly. And FFS stop the childish "but he started it, Mom" BS. For one thing, it isn't true as entire threads of personal attacks on Darth will show, and for another, it is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. You are, I assume, a grown man. You need to act like it and stop being an embarrassment to the whole fanbase.

Go ahead and side with the Negas. You know you are most comfortable around them as they trash our players and coaches. You like that. You and your Nega colleagues are the real embarrassment as you use this forum to bludgeon those that stand up for the team against toads like you.

 

[Rickster]

Wow ,that truly shows your character ....I say again your definition of negavols is ludicrous and yours and yours alone.Everyone in this country has a right to state opinions on this board and that includes criticism of our beloved Lady Vols.....and there no reason whatsoever to label anyone a nega vol based on their comments .JMO....and that is just my opinion....waiting with bated breath for your attack on this post ...

What do you know about character? You’ve never shown it to me otherwise I might actually give a darn what you think.

 

[alexvol]

What do you know about character? You’ve never shown it to me otherwise I might actually give a darn what you think.

Good luck to you on all future endeavors because with your attitude and the tone you express it with you will need all the luck that can be mustered.

 

[Rickster]

Good luck to you on all future endeavors because with your attitude and the tone you express it with you will need all the luck that can be mustered.

It’s laughable that a Nega can be as hateful as they want but when they get an alternative viewpoint, it’s called an attack.

 

[Bballnut1952]

Some have called it hyperbole, but here's where the current team stands now about a third of the way through the season:

Field Goal Percentage: .398 WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (next lowest .408 in 2015-16)

Free Throw Percentage: .589 WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (next lowest is .627 in 1985-86)

Three Point Percentage: .278 THIRD WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (two worst were .231 in 1988-89, .254 in 2015-16)

Points Per Game: 66.9 SECOND WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (worst was 65.6 in 2015-16)

Assists Per Game: 12.9 TIED FOR WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (the 1992-93 team actually finished with 12.91)

Interesting stats.

And this includes games against some weak teams.

I read another post that said it’s only 1/3 of the season so they have time to raise those numbers.

That is true.

However, I’ve heard the SEC is the best league and has the toughest defensive teams as well.

It’s more likely the stats could get worse.

Burrell is the wild card. Great shooter and could open it up for other players to get good looks.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

Funny how fans love whistling past the graveyard. The "9-1" "we're awesome" is nothing but blind faith. Basketball teams that cannot shoot the basketball are NOT going to win anything of substance. Pitiful FG% and worse FT% means early tourney exit and L's against good teams. It's very hard to get excited for this basketball team when anyone with a pulse can see that the writing is clearly on the wall how this story ends. Until Harper starts recruiting real basketball players instead of "athletes" with size... these types of performances will be the status quo.

The season is a third of the way over. Way too early to be this pessimistic.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

Some have called it hyperbole, but here's where the current team stands now about a third of the way through the season:

Field Goal Percentage: .398 WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (next lowest .408 in 2015-16)

Free Throw Percentage: .589 WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (next lowest is .627 in 1985-86)

Three Point Percentage: .278 THIRD WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (two worst were .231 in 1988-89, .254 in 2015-16)

Points Per Game: 66.9 SECOND WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (worst was 65.6 in 2015-16)

Assists Per Game: 12.9 TIED FOR WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (the 1992-93 team actually finished with 12.91)

And, what about offensive rebounding? That's an offensive stat, isn't it? And what about scoring differrential? Right now, this team is + 10.7. When you outstcore your opponents by that much, your other stats are meaningless.

 

[And1]

Some have called it hyperbole, but here's where the current team stands now about a third of the way through the season:

Field Goal Percentage: .398 WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (next lowest .408 in 2015-16)

Free Throw Percentage: .589 WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (next lowest is .627 in 1985-86)

Three Point Percentage: .278 THIRD WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (two worst were .231 in 1988-89, .254 in 2015-16)

Points Per Game: 66.9 SECOND WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (worst was 65.6 in 2015-16)

Assists Per Game: 12.9 TIED FOR WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (the 1992-93 team actually finished with 12.91)

Maybe find a new hobby? You are a disgrace to all basketball fans, not just Tennessee fans.

 

[cobbwebb0710]

coaches, all the way up and down the ladder fall short in teaching mechanics of the game
they put them into layup lines expecting this to help, when actually teaching the mechanics of the skill is what is needed. Like foulshots, if not taught properly,,,all personal-time practicing does is make a person very good at doing something very wrong.

When teaching foulshots you have to look at the shooter from side, back and front

from the side: to look at overall mechanics and arc of the ball in flight...from the front: hand positions throughout the process, elbow, breathing, release,,,from the back: follow through and how the ball enters the hoop....also focal point (there are two): over the front of the rim or targeting the inside half-diamond of the back of the net.

Do they release the ball and hod their follow long enough
do the drop their follow too quickly
are the releasing half of the breath on shot transition and exhaling at the point of release
do they try to shoot a foulshot like their jumpshot?

There is a heckuva lot more than just standing at a line and jacking up reps

Now you tell me!
GBO!!

 

[Terrells Bay88]

And, what about offensive rebounding? That's an offensive stat, isn't it? And what about scoring differrential? Right now, this team is + 10.7. When you outstcore your opponents by that much, your other stats are meaningless.

That means Tennessee is living off of the offensive glass and it's no coincidence that they lost a game in which they were outrebounded.

 

[Amb3096]

Nvm

 

[UT Challenger]

Some have called it hyperbole, but here's where the current team stands now about a third of the way through the season:

Field Goal Percentage: .398 WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (next lowest .408 in 2015-16)

Free Throw Percentage: .589 WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (next lowest is .627 in 1985-86)

Three Point Percentage: .278 THIRD WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (two worst were .231 in 1988-89, .254 in 2015-16)

Points Per Game: 66.9 SECOND WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (worst was 65.6 in 2015-16)

Assists Per Game: 12.9 TIED FOR WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (the 1992-93 team actually finished with 12.91)

With stats like that they should be 1-9 instead of 9-1. That tells me this is a pretty good team. When those statistics start going up they will be hard to beat.

 

[ETCvol4life]

Funny how fans love whistling past the graveyard. The "9-1" "we're awesome" is nothing but blind faith. Basketball teams that cannot shoot the basketball are NOT going to win anything of substance. Pitiful FG% and worse FT% means early tourney exit and L's against good teams. It's very hard to get excited for this basketball team when anyone with a pulse can see that the writing is clearly on the wall how this story ends. Until Harper starts recruiting real basketball players instead of "athletes" with size... these types of performances will be the status quo.

So going by your train of thought the UT Vol's men's basketball team sucks as well? Just asking for a friend.

 

[papatomany]

And, what about offensive rebounding? That's an offensive stat, isn't it? And what about scoring differrential? Right now, this team is + 10.7. When you outstcore your opponents by that much, your other stats are meaningless.

I don't agree that the other stats are meaningless, but you're right that shooting isn't all there is to offense. The thing that surprises me is that so many folks on here seem to think the shooting and turnovers are things unique to this team and things that Kelly can fix. They can be improved, but they won't go away. Kelly's teams are nearly ALWAYS mediocre to bad shooters with high turnovers; good foul drawing, but poor free throw shooters; good on the effort stuff, i.e. rebounding and defense, scrapping, forcing turnovers and the like. Throw in a Rennia and the shooting looks a little better (especially her 85% at the line); which is why Rae is so important to this team. Personally, I'm surprised and thrilled with their record. Yeah, it's ugly, but so what. If Rae get back to anything like healthy, we could see a nice run in the tourney.
(And, nobody wants to hear this, but Kelly's teams bear a striking resemblance to Holly's teams.)

 

[jeff1vol]

So going by your train of thought the UT Vol's men's basketball team sucks as well? Just asking for a friend.

Pretty much. UT men have to score better to beat better teams. See TTech, Villanova. UNC sucks. I dont know why facts hurt so many feelings. The Lady Vols arent a good shooting team. Sorry, but thats a fact.

 

[Pride85]

Some have called it hyperbole, but here's where the current team stands now about a third of the way through the season:

Field Goal Percentage: .398 WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (next lowest .408 in 2015-16)

Free Throw Percentage: .589 WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (next lowest is .627 in 1985-86)

Three Point Percentage: .278 THIRD WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (two worst were .231 in 1988-89, .254 in 2015-16)

Points Per Game: 66.9 SECOND WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (worst was 65.6 in 2015-16)

Assists Per Game: 12.9 TIED FOR WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (the 1992-93 team actually finished with 12.91)

Man, they must be 1-9 and lost to everyone of any import they have played.......wait, it is actually the flip of that. Unbelievable! Imagine what they will be like when some of your listed ills get better.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Some have called it hyperbole, but here's where the current team stands now about a third of the way through the season:

Field Goal Percentage: .398 WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (next lowest .408 in 2015-16)

Free Throw Percentage: .589 WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (next lowest is .627 in 1985-86)

Three Point Percentage: .278 THIRD WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (two worst were .231 in 1988-89, .254 in 2015-16)

Points Per Game: 66.9 SECOND WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (worst was 65.6 in 2015-16)

Assists Per Game: 12.9 TIED FOR WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (the 1992-93 team actually finished with 12.91)

yet 9-1 and the 1 coming from a loss to #3 in the country.
Held their best scorer to under 5 pts

But, people can key in on what they want to.
numbers cane create any environment
like
in 2330 views to this page,,,you have two likes on the opening page

 

[allenfan1]

So winning is not enough? We gotta win and have perfect stats? Unbelievable!!![/QUOTE No one mention perfection , but common sense tells you that you have to make free throws and layups to win the close games against good teams, after all if free throws had been made on Saturday, then the game would have ended differently

 

[Rickster]

No one mention perfection , but common sense tells you that you have to make free throws and layups to win the close games against good teams, after all if free throws had been made on Saturday, then the game would have ended differently

There are several reasons we lost. Yes, FT shooting is one (but how many teams actually don't miss FT's?), FG shooting is another, rebounding is another, allowing the opponents to score is another. Do FT's need to improve? Yes and we all hope they do along with every other offensive and defensive statistic. Need to keep getting better......we played and gave a real scare to the #3 team in the nation. Take what was learned and show up tonight focused because ETSU may make us shoot a lot of FT's and that would give is a great opportunity to shoot ourselves out of it.

 

[PG1]

Some have called it hyperbole, but here's where the current team stands now about a third of the way through the season:

Field Goal Percentage: .398 WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (next lowest .408 in 2015-16)

Free Throw Percentage: .589 WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (next lowest is .627 in 1985-86)

Three Point Percentage: .278 THIRD WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (two worst were .231 in 1988-89, .254 in 2015-16)

Points Per Game: 66.9 SECOND WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (worst was 65.6 in 2015-16)

Assists Per Game: 12.9 TIED FOR WORST IN SCHOOL HISTORY (the 1992-93 team actually finished with 12.91)

Considering we are 9-1 just proves the rest of WCBB have come down to our level.

 

[madtownvol]

[QUOTE="papatomany, post: 20695263, member: 30948" (And, nobody wants to hear this, but Kelly's teams bear a striking resemblance to Holly's teams.)[/QUOTE]

Nobody wants to "hear it" because your opinion is dead wrong. Holly wanted her teams to push pace. She was always motioning for the team to go faster. Defensively, they were prone to breakdowns and had little accountability for missing assignments and not even playing the coverage that Holly called for.

Kellie's current team (since it is the relevant one) looks more like Pat's teams from the past; prior to the meek era, the Lvs were never an offensive juggernaut and complaints about Pat's offensive schemes were really commonplace during her championship drought. But her teams kept making to the FInal 4s based on intense defense and rebounding. The game has changed and the common wisdom is that teams need to have high levels of offensive proficiency to really compete. But there is always that team that grinds it out defensively and that shows the "old skool" style can still have success.

We can look at the shooting numbers and say that is why the LVs lost and that would not be wrong but they also lost due to a woeful defensive performance in the first half. They corrected that in the 2nd half, made a heck of a run, but that first half hole was just too deep.

 

[Capt Straight]

BFD, all I care about is adding W's in the win column. I don't care if they are breaking low shooting records so long as they are winning. Bottom line is the W that counts in the end.

 

[Vol4life2]

That means Tennessee is living off of the offensive glass and it's no coincidence that they lost a game in which they were outrebounded.

Exactly. We are a poor shooting team right now but they can get better even against better defensive teams. However, we still need to stay + on the offensive glass.