Ken Lay

#4
#4
I'm amazed at that people are viewing this as if he "escaped justice". The guy is dead! Sheez. Even the murderers on death row usually get a prayer vigil after they are executed. Rest in peace Ken Lay.
 
#5
#5
Let's just examine this. Spend at least 30 years in prison and die in a cold jail cell, or pass away after spending the holiday with family at your comfortable mansion in Colorado, O-Ring intact.
 
#6
#6
(VolunteerHillbilly @ Jul 5 said:
I'm amazed at that people are viewing this as if he "escaped justice". The guy is dead! Sheez. Even the murderers on death row usually get a prayer vigil after they are executed. Rest in peace Ken Lay.
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I was serious. I would not wish that on anybody. :cry:
 
#7
#7
or pass away after spending the holiday with family at your comfortable mansion in Colorado, O-Ring intact.
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Exactly, he committed suicide......

*Insert X-files theme..............
 
#9
#9
The timing is a little odd, if you ask me.
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Regardless of what did or did not happen, the timing is odd.

I am sure it is another "W" conspiracy......he gave Lay a way out........kind of like the Erwin Rommel I guess....... :banghead:
 
#10
#10
Did he die of a heart attack? The article I read didn't specify. It did talk up the difficulties his potential creditors would have collecting money from Lay's estate (supposedly he has hidden assets of 40 milllion).

So maybe Empire's right, and Lay pulled a Slobodan Milosovic to preserve his wealth for his family.

Is that the ultimate sacrifice or the ultimate screw-job, if true?
 
#11
#11
(jdsa @ Jul 5 said:
Did he die of a heart attack? The article I read didn't specify. It did talk up the difficulties his potential creditors would have collecting money from Lay's estate (supposedly he has hidden assets of 40 milllion).

So maybe Empire's right, and Lay pulled a Slobodan Milosovic to preserve his wealth for his family.

Is that the ultimate sacrifice or the ultimate screw-job, if true?
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With $40 mil I could find a way to fake my death
 
#12
#12
(VolunteerHillbilly @ Jul 5 said:
I'm amazed at that people are viewing this as if he "escaped justice". The guy is dead! Sheez. Even the murderers on death row usually get a prayer vigil after they are executed. Rest in peace Ken Lay.
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Death is way better than 20-30 years in prison. I think I'd rather die in my nice place in Aspen versus a cold jail cell.
 
#13
#13
Death is way better than 20-30 years in prison. I think I'd rather die in my nice place in Aspen versus a cold jail cell.
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Your not subscribing to a conspiracy are you?
 
#18
#18
According to Glenn Beck, one of Halliburton's key revenue sources is creating "body duplicates" of oil/energy executives. Lay obviously bought one of these and is now off sailing with Olivia Newton John's husband.
 
#20
#20
I never really even understood what Lay was convicted of. It just seemed like he became a paraiah because a bunch of people lost their jobs and/or their stock went in the tank. So they said he hid the fact that his company was doing poorly. I do not understand. What was he supposed to do? Tell everyone that the company was going to hell in a handbasket? It is a breach of duty to the stockholders to just come out and say, "everbody sell now 'cause were headed down the crapper."

Anyone who has ever worked for a business that was on the skids knows that there is no "fair warning". The owners/directors are going to keep it floating along, smiles on their faces, for as long as they can and then when the last dime is gone and the creditors cannot be fended off any longer you show up for work one day the doors are locked. I once worked in the legal dept. of a very large retail chain. They are no longer in business. Lots of people who worked there a long time lost jobs. Lots of stockholders were left holding worthless paper. There were no huge lawsuits. No federal prosecutor indicted the corporate officers.

I saw these former Enron employees on TV who were whining about how they lost a bunch of "money", by which they meant the value of their Enron stock was wiped out. Their gripe against Lay seems to be that if he had told them the company was in trouble they could have sold at a good price and everything would be fine in their eyes. What they don't seem to realize is that if they had acted on that information they would be guilty of insider trading. They also seem to have no care for whatever poor sap might have bought their stock. What do people expect? This is not the People's Republic of America, at least not yet. Some companies are going to fail and both jobs and investments will be lost. Why is that so hard for some people to accept?
 
#21
#21
(VolunteerHillbilly @ Jul 6 said:
I never really even understood what Lay was convicted of. It just seemed like he became a paraiah because a bunch of people lost their jobs and/or their stock went in the tank. So they said he hid the fact that his company was doing poorly. I do not understand. What was he supposed to do? Tell everyone that the company was going to hell in a handbasket? It is a breach of duty to the stockholders to just come out and say, "everbody sell now 'cause were headed down the crapper."
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Lay and Skilling perpetrated fraud. That is why they were convicted. The big news today is that since Lay died before he was sentenced, his convinction will almost certainly have to be vacated (meaning that he will not have died as a convicted felon). As a result, the government will have no claim on the $44 million that they were trying to collect from Lay.
 
#22
#22
(VolunteerHillbilly @ Jul 6 said:
I never really even understood what Lay was convicted of. It just seemed like he became a paraiah because a bunch of people lost their jobs and/or their stock went in the tank. So they said he hid the fact that his company was doing poorly. I do not understand. What was he supposed to do? Tell everyone that the company was going to hell in a handbasket? It is a breach of duty to the stockholders to just come out and say, "everbody sell now 'cause were headed down the crapper."

Anyone who has ever worked for a business that was on the skids knows that there is no "fair warning". The owners/directors are going to keep it floating along, smiles on their faces, for as long as they can and then when the last dime is gone and the creditors cannot be fended off any longer you show up for work one day the doors are locked. I once worked in the legal dept. of a very large retail chain. They are no longer in business. Lots of people who worked there a long time lost jobs. Lots of stockholders were left holding worthless paper. There were no huge lawsuits. No federal prosecutor indicted the corporate officers.

I saw these former Enron employees on TV who were whining about how they lost a bunch of "money", by which they meant the value of their Enron stock was wiped out. Their gripe against Lay seems to be that if he had told them the company was in trouble they could have sold at a good price and everything would be fine in their eyes. What they don't seem to realize is that if they had acted on that information they would be guilty of insider trading. They also seem to have no care for whatever poor sap might have bought their stock. What do people expect? This is not the People's Republic of America, at least not yet. Some companies are going to fail and both jobs and investments will be lost. Why is that so hard for some people to accept?
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They lied about the financial condition of the company to the SEC and to investors. This is VERY different than poor management. Stockholders have an "open book" expectation that was clearly violated in this case. People are whining because the bought stock that was sold under false premises. If this wasn't against the law, the entire stock market would collapse. It was clearly a big deal!
 
#23
#23
(volinbham @ Jul 6 said:
They lied about the financial condition of the company to the SEC and to investors. This is VERY different than poor management. Stockholders have an "open book" expectation that was clearly violated in this case. People are whining because the bought stock that was sold under false premises. If this wasn't against the law, the entire stock market would collapse. It was clearly a big deal!
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To those who profit it's puffery. To those who get taken to the cleaners it's fraud. All a matter of perspective.
 
#24
#24
(VolunteerHillbilly @ Jul 6 said:
To those who profit it's puffery. To those who get taken to the cleaners it's fraud. All a matter of perspective.
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No. It's not puffery. It's just fraud, and the fraud was rampant within the company. One example was that Enron executives were giving projections to the street that one of the new divisions of their business was going to have huge gains in revenues over the next two years, while internally they knew that not only did that division have NO CHANCE of hitting those revenue projections, but that the division would most likely not earn any revenues within that time frame. Enron was nothing more than a high stakes shell game, and it has caused profound changes in the of public accounting industry (other than the demise of Arthur Anderson).
 
#25
#25
(Vol423 @ Jul 6 said:
One example was that Enron executives were giving projections to the street that one of the new divisions of their business was going to have huge gains in revenues over the next two years, while internally they knew that not only did that division have NO CHANCE of hitting those revenue projections, but that the division would most likely not earn any revenues within that time frame.
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That is the epitome of puffery. Corporate directors are not under any duty of fair dealing with stockbrokers. It sounds like the only thing that was illegal was cooking the books.
 
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