Ken Lay

#26
#26
If you were on top of the world and rolling in the money one day and then heading to jail selling off what you had in assets the next day, I'd say you're a perfect candidate for a heart attack. First to worst isn't exactly the best health regimen for an elderly heart. While it would not surprise me if he did commit suicide, I'm more inclined to side with failure and stress.
 
#27
#27
(VolunteerHillbilly @ Jul 6 said:
To those who profit it's puffery. To those who get taken to the cleaners it's fraud. All a matter of perspective.
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What distinguishes it from puffery is that it is ILLEGAL to misrepresent earnings and other financial data to the SEC.
 
#29
#29
(volinbham @ Jul 6 said:
What distinguishes it from puffery is that it is ILLEGAL to misrepresent earnings and other financial data to the SEC.
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I believe I said that cooking the books was illegal. Otherwise, I don't see that any laws were broken. Since I did not follow his trial I am not sure whether the government really proved that he personally ordered the accountants to do that. I did hear that he was an arrogant witness and, regardless of what people said in voire dire, I imagine there were probably a few people on the jury who went into it wanting to string him up.

Listen, I'm not a fan of Ken Lay or corporate corruption. I just found it very weird that people seem to think he is better off dead. I guess it just says something about how little value those people have for human life and how little faith tjey have in the power of redemption.
 
#30
#30
Setting up false entities and businesses with which to dump your expenses on, is very illegal.
 
#31
#31
Setting up false entities with which to dump your liabilities on, also very illegal.
 
#32
#32
Not using Generally Accepted Accounting Principles and following FASB, as a publicly held and traded corporation, is very illegal.
 
#33
#33
(VolunteerHillbilly @ Jul 6 said:
I believe I said that cooking the books was illegal. Otherwise, I don't see that any laws were broken. Since I did not follow his trial I am not sure whether the government really proved that he personally ordered the accountants to do that. I did hear that he was an arrogant witness and, regardless of what people said in voire dire, I imagine there were probably a few people on the jury who went into it wanting to string him up.

Listen, I'm not a fan of Ken Lay or corporate corruption. I just found it very weird that people seem to think he is better off dead. I guess it just says something about how little value those people have for human life and how little faith tjey have in the power of redemption.
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First, I agree that it's weird to say he's better off dead or that he escaped punishment, etc. etc.

Cooking the books is enough - investors rely on the assumption that earnings/revenues/expenses etc. are reported accurately. Without this assurance, faith would be lost in the entire securities system. By defrauding investors, Lay, Skilling, Fastow, etc. were directly responsible for huge losses in people's retirements. While every investment has risk, there is a clear distinction between risk and fraud. People were screwed and Lay and company deserved the punishment they received. The evidence shows that at a minimum, Lay and Skilling were aware of the fraud and did nothing to stop it.

As a result of this case, top management is now assumed to have knowledge of the accounting practices (even if they don't) and are directly liable for falsification of such.
 
#34
#34
They definitely deserve to be punished, but I do see a difference between lying about the numbers to try and keep your company afloat and just robbing your company blind like Dennis Kozlowski.
 
#35
#35
I believe there may have also been some exercising of stock options at fraudulently inflated prices. In effect they were stealing from stockholders.
 
#36
#36
(volinbham @ Jul 6 said:
According to Glenn Beck, one of Halliburton's key revenue sources is creating "body duplicates" of oil/energy executives. Lay obviously bought one of these and is now off sailing with Olivia Newton John's husband.
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:lol: :lol:
 
#37
#37
(therealUT @ Jul 6 said:
Setting up false entities and businesses with which to dump your expenses on, is very illegal.
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we finally agree on something , what these guys did was just wrong
 
#38
#38
:birgits_giggle:
 

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#39
#39
Reverend Dr. William Lawson: "He reached out to touch many people from many backgrounds ... many economic levels ... that included minorities like me."

"Ken Lay was neither black nor poor, but I'm angry because Ken Lay was a victim of a lynching."

"The folks who don't like him have had their say. I'd like to have mine ... (Like Jesus Christ) he was crucified by a government that mistreated him."
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Wow...could anything be further from the truth?
 
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