Kentucky and the apr

#1
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volnpowell

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#1
How is it Kentucky can keep having a whole class of one and done, and yet they have not taken an APR hit by losing a scholarship?
 
#2
#2
because their one and done's go to class and make good grades (to my understanding at least)....
 
#4
#4
yeah that is my understanding as well - apparently john wall and Brandon knight were exceptional students - like 4.0 GPA or close to it - somehow he gets them to go to class even in the 2nd semester when they know they are out
 
#6
#6
Honestly, I'm sure that is discussed. 80% of the classes Cal signs is likely to go to the NBA. They are aware of it so maybe it's a general understanding when they sign on that they must attend classes. Plus, I wonder how hard a students work load is when they know they are only taking classes for a year.
 
#7
#7
Shaun1985 said:
because their one and done's go to class and make good grades (to my understanding at least)....
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I thought school takes a hit just by them leaving early? Small hit, but when it happens every year it adds up to lose a scholarship?
 
#8
#8
SCvol333 said:
yeah that is my understanding as well - apparently john wall and Brandon knight were exceptional students - like 4.0 GPA or close to it - somehow he gets them to go to class even in the 2nd semester when they know they are out
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John Wall a 4.0 student idk about that. I remember he took general studies as a major so he knew that he was going to be gone after one year.
 
#9
#9
I am more interested in how they managed to kick out the two players (Goodwin and Harrow) that the fanbase hated the most to make room for more recruits.
 
#10
#10
volnpowell said:
I thought school takes a hit just by them leaving early? Small hit, but when it happens every year it adds up to lose a scholarship?
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I thought the same. Is graduation rate not tied into it? Mark immert mentioned that in an interview I saw recently. Said a new policy is that 50% of the team must graduate
 
#11
#11
Shaun1985 said:
Honestly, I'm sure that is discussed. 80% of the classes Cal signs is likely to go to the NBA. They are aware of it so maybe it's a general understanding when they sign on that they must attend classes. Plus, I wonder how hard a students work load is when they know they are only taking classes for a year.
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Make a good point here. And I remember hearing Knight and Wall were really good students. But they are by far going to be the exception to the rule. If Goodwin and Noel are still attending classes on a daily basis though I would be shocked though.
 
#13
#13
#16
#16
golfballs said:
I thought the same. Is graduation rate not tied into it? Mark immert mentioned that in an interview I saw recently. Said a new policy is that 50% of the team must graduate
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If 50% have to graduate, KY is in trouble!
I'm sure Cal has already figured out a way to cheat & beat the system & look all innocent while doing it, hasn't he, Memphis & UMass!
 
#18
#18
Shaun1985 said:
Honestly, I'm sure that is discussed. 80% of the classes Cal signs is likely to go to the NBA. They are aware of it so maybe it's a general understanding when they sign on that they must attend classes. Plus, I wonder how hard a students work load is when they know they are only taking classes for a year.
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This.
And, leaving in good academic standing is probably discussed before they get there, because they are probably told that not doing that will screw it up for the classes that follow them.
 
#19
#19
The kids come in with the deal that they will finish the year. The only one who didn't do that under Cal is Daniel Orton.

Even Noel didn't have his surgery until Spring Break so that he wouldn't miss class.

And a lot of former players return to take classes in the offseason.
 
#20
#20
Although it may not apply to its most current incarnation, here is a masterfully stated characterization of the NCAA’s APR policy: “The NCAA's Academic Progress Report is a lot like Major League Baseball's old steroids policy: Its intentions are good, its methods are questionable and its penalties are a joke.” See The NCAA's Academic Progress Report is flawed and misguided - The Dagger - NCAAB*Blog - Yahoo! Sports. For those of you who, like me, were thoroughly confused as to the precise verbiage used by the NCAA in defining academic progress, Chris Chase, the author of the same article, cites the following explanation of their methodology:

“Each Division I sports team receives an APR. An APR of 925 roughly projects to a 60 percent graduation success rate. To calculate the APR, every student-athlete is tracked by eligibility and retention, the two most reliable factors in predicting graduation. Those who do well in the classroom and stay in school earn two points. Those who pass but do not return to school earn one point. If a student-athlete fails academically and leaves school, their team loses two points. If a student-athlete returns to school later and graduates, the school earns one bonus point. The team's APR is calculated by dividing the total points earned in a year by the total points possible.”

The problem is, as Chase observes, the NCAA “confuses the issue when it comes to college basketball. It celebrates the one-and-done superstars like Kevin Durant, Derrick Rose and Greg Oden, but then penalizes teams that don't graduate players. It can't, and shouldn't, be both ways.” Tying graduation rates actually achieved within a specified timeframe, as opposed to those which are simply projected by the existing methodology, is the only way to put any real teeth in this policy and eliminate the travesty of the "one-and-done" phenomenon.
 
#21
#21
The problem with putting teeth into such a policy is that the 1-and-done rule is the NBA's policy, not the NCAA's. The 'AA has their hands tied at this point. They tolerate 1-and-done because without it, the talent pool in college basketball would be really anemic. Star players would skip college altogether. IMO, they can't really enforce an APR policy based on retention rates until the outside policy by the NBA is addressed properly.

Volosaurus rex said:
Although it may not apply to its most current incarnation, here is a masterfully stated characterization of the NCAA’s APR policy: “The NCAA's Academic Progress Report is a lot like Major League Baseball's old steroids policy: Its intentions are good, its methods are questionable and its penalties are a joke.” See The NCAA's Academic Progress Report is flawed and misguided - The Dagger - NCAAB*Blog - Yahoo! Sports. For those of you who, like me, were thoroughly confused as to the precise verbiage used by the NCAA in defining academic progress, Chris Chase, the author of the same article, cites the following explanation of their methodology:

“Each Division I sports team receives an APR. An APR of 925 roughly projects to a 60 percent graduation success rate. To calculate the APR, every student-athlete is tracked by eligibility and retention, the two most reliable factors in predicting graduation. Those who do well in the classroom and stay in school earn two points. Those who pass but do not return to school earn one point. If a student-athlete fails academically and leaves school, their team loses two points. If a student-athlete returns to school later and graduates, the school earns one bonus point. The team's APR is calculated by dividing the total points earned in a year by the total points possible.”

The problem is, as Chase observes, the NCAA “confuses the issue when it comes to college basketball. It celebrates the one-and-done superstars like Kevin Durant, Derrick Rose and Greg Oden, but then penalizes teams that don't graduate players. It can't, and shouldn't, be both ways.” Tying graduation rates actually achieved within a specified timeframe, as opposed to those which are simply projected by the existing methodology, is the only way to put any real teeth in this policy and eliminate the travesty of the "one-and-done" phenomenon.
Click to expand...
 
#22
#22
I agree that the root of the problem is with the NBA's policy. The NCAA, however, does not have to be an enabler by implementing a policy that carries no punishment whatsoever for programs that consistently recycle one crop of "one and doners" after another. As for those players who are foolish enough to enter the NBA draft straight out of high school, let them. I certainly don't care. The raison d'etre for universities still remains the provision of education.
 
#23
#23
Volosaurus rex said:
I agree that the root of the problem is with the NBA's policy. The NCAA, however, does not have to be an enabler by implementing a policy that carries no punishment whatsoever for programs that consistently recycle one crop of "one and doners" after another. As for those players who are foolish enough to enter the NBA draft straight out of high school, let them. I certainly don't care. The raison d'etre for universities still remains the provision of education.
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Is one and done still bad if students come back during the offseason to continue their education? Does education have to be defined as a 4-year preparation for a career? I work in the community college system, where students are ably prepared for a financially rewarding career in two years, and some programs only require one year. For one-and-done athletes, if they are prepared for a career, should they not go after one year? Why continue to indenture them in athletic slavery for 4 years?
 
#25
#25
Brian McCat said:
Is one and done still bad if students come back during the offseason to continue their education? Does education have to be defined as a 4-year preparation for a career? For one-and-done athletes, if they are prepared for a career, should they not go? Why continue to indenture them in athletic slavery for 4 years?
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that same case would say they really didnt need to go to college in the first place - a case which i totally agree with btw

also interesting that you only see this in sports that aren't predominantly white - noone cries about tennis players not going to college - not sure what to make of that, just always thought it was an interesting factoid
 
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