Kentucky down to 6 players

#26
#26
mtsuraider06 said:
No, it tells me that both Cox & Holmes wanted to stay close to home in Texas, which they did. McCoy's Dad basically sold his daughter to OSU in exchange for offering the other daughter a scholarship, which Holly wouldn't do.

Had we not recruited these three and focused on others who had expressed high interested in coming to Tennessee, the 2016 class would've been much better.

If you didn't like Holly before, you aren't going to like her in the future, so there's no point in arguing about it. She could sign the #1 recruiting class and there will still be "fans" who want her gone.
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(1) Too many mistakes during games.

(2) She seems lost for answers during press conferences
" I don't know what to do now" "Ya know, I'm not sure"

(3) At times the entire team played uninspired and in slow motion during games.

(4) She had game plans during some games that made no sense at all. For instance, not making Diamond the "go to " player and feeding the ball to someone else all game when it obviously hadn't worked in the 1st half.

Just don't have much confidence in her now. Until she proves otherwise to me.
 
#27
#27
Rudy123 said:
(1) (4) She had game plans during some games that made no sense at all. For instance, not making Diamond the "go to " player and feeding the ball to someone else all game when it obviously hadn't worked in the 1st half.
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Rudy, I can promise you CHW pronounced DD the LVs "GO TO" player before the season began. That announcement was made directly to the team!

My take, having watched every game this year and most in the recent past.... DD is not able to be a GO TO player game in and game out. So when DD is not being the GO TO player the plan is designed around, I think Holly was not prepared to adjust. My opinion she coaches in the past era of having the best athletes and playing best on best. The few game when DD looked great, all was great. Everyone jumped up and down claiming they had found their chemistry and all was great now, only to slump again. I watched as the LVs looked good in a couple NCAA tourney games against weaker opponents only to fall to Syracuse. Then everyone proclaimed the "injury bugs hit again" to end the season. I'm certain Ohio State felt the same loosing to the LVs with one starter out with a broken hand and their second leading scorer playing with a broken wrist strapped up.
 
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#28
#28
Top Gun said:
When Pat was there the list of schools that the players were considering sounded like this: Tennessee, Connecticut, Stanford, Baylor, and the home state school. We recruited the very best players back then, now they don't even consider Tennessee.
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Nice attempt at rewriting history, now go look at the final schools for the top 3 girls in 2016 class, then check out the 2017 class, and try to use some knowledge going forward! Then you try to recant your comment to "we need a great coach, and I think we can still get one" please tell us who you would have on your list that beats Holly's achievements, 2SEC titles, 1 SEC tournament title, 3 elite 8, one sweet 16 in 4 years. Number 1 recruit, number 2 recruit, Deshields from same class, yes Diamond transferred but she is here, Nared 5th, Tucker 6th, Graves 3rd. Tell us that list you have of great coaches and what they have done, I will wait....
,
 
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#29
#29
All you guys keep thinking that you could do a better job than Holly ... she can only put the players on the floor that she has - she can't keep them from getting injured, she can't put the ball in the basket for them but she does seem to have their respect!!! Just because she has not reached a final four doesn't make her a terrible coach - it makes you guys unreasonable and impatient. Many of you thought we should have fired Holly and gone after the KY coach - how is that looking right now????
 
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#30
#30
kvol1987 said:
All you guys keep thinking that you could do a better job than Holly ... she can only put the players on the floor that she has - she can't keep them from getting injured, she can't put the ball in the basket for them but she does seem to have their respect!!! Just because she has not reached a final four doesn't make her a terrible coach - it makes you guys unreasonable and impatient. Many of you thought we should have fired Holly and gone after the KY coach - how is that looking right now????
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She is paid over $600k to put an above average team on the floor. Yes she made a ways in ncaa, but she is still an average coach at best. We deserve better due to our history in Wbb. Hopefully she makes a fool out of me and exceeds expectations for once.
 
#31
#31
Holly warlick can get to a final four and ppl will still say o fire her she should have won it all... blah blah ..some ppl will never be happy.. besides this year. she has an outstanding record for an 4 year head coach .. do she need to make changes yes but pat was not an offense guru either so in essence she is doing what she knows. but i think she is smart enough to change things.
 
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#32
#32
vettefool said:
She is paid over $600k to put an above average team on the floor. Yes she made a ways in ncaa, but she is still an average coach at best. We deserve better due to our history in Wbb. Hopefully she makes a fool out of me and exceeds expectations for once.
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You need to redefine average and face the true fact that TN started slipping under Pat's watch. History is exactly what it is history. It time to write a new chapter because no coach is ever going to be Pat Summit - period. She was a one of a Kind!!! Times change, kids change so now fans like you need to change. You don't have to like Holly but you calling her average with the record of being the 7th fastest women's coach to 100 wins is not logical to me because are giving the coach no credit at all.
 
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#33
#33
So the Holly Haters come and hijack a thread about Kentucky players, singing the same OLD a** tune!! Get a grip people, until Holly recruits players that can make layups, mid range shots, and 3 pointers, the offense is going to suck. It's obvious we have a system when it's ran correctly and our guards actually make shots!
 
#34
#34
Top Gun said:
When Pat was there the list of schools that the players were considering sounded like this: Tennessee, Connecticut, Stanford, Baylor, and the home state school. We recruited the very best players back then, now they don't even consider Tennessee.
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I agree with your post. When Pat was here nearly every top recruit ranked through the top 25 had UT on their list/consideration. It was between UT, UConn, Notre Dame,& Baylor for the most part for these girls to pick. Again, I'm only talking about the top 20-25 recruits or so not the lower rated/ranked ones. Ours were almost always 4-5 star recruits to pick from.

Holly did sign 2 top 50 players in the 2015 signing class in Cooper(#12) & Meme Jackson(#49). She also got the #1 overall recruit in Mercedes Russell to come here in 2014. Those are 3 pretty good signings.

Now, jump to the 2016 class. What has happened? Something caused these top recruits to totally shy away from even considering UT. We weren't even on their lists/radar.

This is no doubt going to be one of the worst recruiting classes we've ever had for 2016. Not one single girl from the top 25. Not one single girl from the top 50. Not one single girl from the top 100. There's still I believe 4 players from the top 100(ESPN) that haven't signed anywhere yet.

The #35 overall recruit for 2016 in Lindsey Corsaro list only Kentucky as a school of interest. I wonder what all this controversy at UK will do to her decision making? I bet she might end up opening her list back up to other schools. I think if she was considering UK then no reason why she wouldn't consider UT. That's my opinion.

The other 3 top 100 uncommitted recruits doesn't even have us on their lists either. That basically means for the 1st time that I can personally remember we're not getting one single top 100 recruit for the 2016 signing class.

For 2017, we must not let #17 ranked recruit Anastasia Hayes(Riverdale HS) to get away from us. We let Crystal Dangerfield(#3 over all 2016 recruit) get out of the state & sign with UConn. That just hurts really bad. We can't even sign in state top recruits now.

It's just not Lady Vols recruiting like it used to be with Pat at the controls even though Holly has gotten a select few top 100 recruits to sign since becoming head coach.
 
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#35
#35
tonybologna said:
I agree with your post. When Pat was here nearly every top recruit ranked through the top 25 had UT on their list/consideration. It was between UT, UConn, Notre Dame,& Baylor for the most part for these girls to pick. Again, I'm only talking about the top 20-25 recruits or so not the lower rated/ranked ones. Ours were almost always 4-5 star recruits to pick from.

Holly did sign 2 top 50 players in the 2015 signing class in Cooper(#12) & Meme Jackson(#49). She also got the #1 overall recruit in Mercedes Russell to come here in 2014. Those are 3 pretty good signings.

Now, jump to the 2016 class. What has happened? Something caused these top recruits to totally shy away from even considering UT. We weren't even on their lists/radar.

This is no doubt going to be one of the worst recruiting classes we've ever had for 2016. Not one single girl from the top 25. Not one single girl from the top 50. Not one single girl from the top 100. There's still I believe 4 players from the top 100(ESPN) that haven't signed anywhere yet.

The #35 overall recruit for 2016 in Lindsey Corsaro list only Kentucky as a school of interest. I wonder what all this controversy at UK will do to her decision making? I bet she might end up opening her list back up to other schools. I think if she was considering UK then no reason why she wouldn't consider UT. That's my opinion.

The other 3 top 100 uncommitted recruits doesn't even have us on their lists either. That basically means for the 1st time that I can personally remember we're not getting one single top 100 recruit for the 2016 signing class.

For 2017, we must not let #17 ranked recruit Anastasia Hayes(Riverdale HS) to get away from us. We let Crystal Dangerfield(#3 over all 2016 recruit) get out of the state & sign with UConn. That just hurts really bad. We can't even sign in state top recruits now.

It's just not Lady Vols recruiting like it used to be with Pat at the controls even though Holly has gotten a select few top 100 recruits to sign since becoming head coach.
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Now, now, you shouldn't speak badly about Holly. Just because she has given up on 5 star talent and now concentrates on trying to get in on players that she has a chance with. I don't even know who that is because she hasn't convinced anyone to sign for the 2016 class. MTSU is convinced she is the answer. Maybe MTSU is really Holly.
 
#36
#36
LadyVol1908 said:
So the Holly Haters come and hijack a thread about Kentucky players, singing the same OLD a** tune!! Get a grip people, until Holly recruits players that can make layups, mid range shots, and 3 pointers, the offense is going to suck. It's obvious we have a system when it's ran correctly and our guards actually make shots!
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to recruit and coach. She's not a good coach, but you can pretend that she is, if you want. She's hardly won 1 big game in 4 years. We slipped noticeably in PS's last several years--and we've slipped even more since HW took over.
 
#37
#37
armchair said:
to recruit and coach. She's not a good coach, but you can pretend that she is, if you want. She's hardly won 1 big game in 4 years. We slipped noticeably in PS's last several years--and we've slipped even more since HW took over.
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I'm not pretending....Holly hasn't had her cup full in all the "Big" games we've played. I'll continue to stand by the injury bug plaguing our program. I have NO doubt we would have been in the FF under Holly if it wasn't for key injuries to KEY players. If you put Holly's resume up against other coaches that many consider superior to her, BLINDLY, anyone would consider her a pretty good coach.

-With a healthy Harrison and Jasmine Jones we beat Maryland last year
-With a healthy Massenagale and Russell the year before, we beat Maryland
-With a healthy Carter, Graves, and Jones we beat Syracuse this year.

I've yet to see a valid reason from anyone on this board as into what makes Holly such a HORRUBLE coach. The whole "she can't speak in an interview" has to be one of the dumbest reasons I've come across however. I know tons of people who aren't great at public speaking, however they still do their job.

When it comes to the 2016 recruiting class, other posters have CLEARLY stated the reason why we struck out the way we did....over and over, yet some still expect Holly to force these girls to sign with us, when most wanted to stay close to home. I've stated time after time that the only disappointments for me in 2016 were Carter and Dangerfield, and only because those were in state talent. The rest I could understand.

Like someone stared earlier, Holly could sign a #1 recruiting class, make it to the FF, and become one of the best speakers in the south and "fans" would still have something negative to point out. I've even seen posters on this board complain about the woman's wardrobe....wtf! Everyone has a different view on Holly, I understand, but I'll continue to "pretend" she's a good coach.
 
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#38
#38
really ? talking about the Lady Vols in a lowly Kentucky thread ?

just think if Ky loses a few more players they won't be able to field a team :) now wouldn't that be a hoot lol
 
#40
#40
armchair said:
to recruit and coach. She's not a good coach, but you can pretend that she is, if you want. She's hardly won 1 big game in 4 years. We slipped noticeably in PS's last several years--and we've slipped even more since HW took over.
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Last SEVERAL years, huh? That is a gross overstatement. Pat retired in 2012. Tennessee was 32-3 in 2010 and 34-3 in 2011 and a combined 31-1 in the SEC those two years. The back to back championships in 2007-08 were just 4 and 5 years prior to her retirement.

We have no way to know when dementia began to impact her ability to coach but there is no question in my mind that if she was healthy and still Tennessee's coach we would have made at least one Final Four since 2013. We were not as good as Baylor, UConn or Notre Dame in Pat's last years but that's it. Don't blame this on Pat Summitt. It has NOTHING to do with the job she was doing at the end.
 
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#41
#41
tell em BowlBrothers ,I'm sick and tiered of hearing about CPS decline,there is no telling what would of happened if she had been able to stay healthy and I'm 100% sure it wouldn't have been a bad thing at all

and it is sad to say,I've stooped to talking about her and the Lady Vols in a damn Ky thread myself,sad isn't it ?
 
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#42
#42
governmentmule said:
tell em BowlBrothers ,I'm sick and tiered of hearing about CPS decline,there is no telling what would of happened if she had been able to stay healthy and I'm 100% sure it wouldn't have been a bad thing at all

and it is sad to say,I've stooped to talking about her and the Lady Vols in a damn Ky thread myself,sad isn't it ?
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People who say that we had declined in Pat's last years are just so f***ing wrong. 2010 and 2011 were awesome years!!!! We got tough draws in the tournament especially having to play Baylor in the Sweet 16 in '10 but damn they went 31-1 in the SEC those two years. We did not slip a damn bit until her last season but she obviously wasn't really doing any coaching in 2012. That was truly Holly's team.
 
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#43
#43
"We did not slip a damn bit until her last season but she obviously wasn't really doing any coaching in 2012. That was truly Holly's team." Bowl, you do have it figured out. With Holly in charge the "Brass Ring" on this Merry-Go-Round is not attainable. Don't see it happening under her watch!
 
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#44
#44
armchair said:
What has got into Jumper? He hammered Warlick all last season--as did many, including myself--and now he's all peaches and cream. Maybe it's because he's hoping for some UT business? Hey, if true, I can appreciate the need for political expediency.

I seriously doubt that Warlick is "making strides." On what would one base that remark? The team last year underachieved tremendously. It made a decent showing in a couple of NCAA tournament games because DeShields finally stopped feeling sorry for herself-- or stopped whatever it was that troubled her all year--and started playing good basketball. But we still got waxed in the Elite 8 for the THIRD straight time under Warlick--and it's not like any of those defeats were to a national title contender. Recruiting last year was the WORST EVER. So all of this newfound optimism is a bit perplexing. Is our offense going to be better? Ha, good luck with that one! Our offense hasn't been good three years out of the last 15.

I mean, we have a chance to have a pretty good team next year--but there's also a very good chance that we will stumble around and lose games and underachieve again. That's out habit. Our guard play could be sketchy again--it is every year--and we have no shooters, with the exception of DD when she is on, and outside shooting isn't really her game. Who else? Dunbar, but she's probably not going to play a lot next year either. After that there is NOBODY--and you can bet that we'll see zone defenses all next year too.
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Yes, I was among the toughest, maybe The Toughest on the program's coaching last year and I'm not about giving "false praises" even now, ac... I don't dish out compliments to impress anyone, HW had to earn my accolade just as anyone else would. And she has done so by making some very calculated and unexpected moves. She has gotten a proven commodity with Reaves...Jettisoned what seems to be the one in the assistant staff that she may have had the most negative head-to-heads with... Pulled a trigger on the decisions to use her openings to get a VG potential PF (When everyone was yelling get a shooter) and only used a year of eligibility to get her a Senior mentor in Nunn... And is actively on the road right now looking at prospects.

I have never wavered on how I felt about the expectations and culminations of this past year's team, but I also know that this is a sport that is prevalent in the "What have you done for me lately mentality" and she has done some good things... DD got the right words from Coach Law and it did wonders for her. Hopefully this will continue this next season.

The offense has to be reworked, absolutely. Not only the offense, but the "over dribbling mentality and the stand-still four out-one in - force feed a doubled post offense. There are drills that can quickly change this mentality... On paper, this team right now rivals the composition of last year. We lost Graves and replaced her with Kamera and Nunn. We are potentially losing Draya, this is where we need the primary focus on in the off-season, at set-up guard. As you reference, hitting the open shots HAS to be a primary off-season focus for every girl on this team! Every one of them!

Regarding my reversal of criticisms... Yes, i am still working hard to crack a entry into this program, this is no secret. But for me to change my opinion, it had to be earned and it has been. I have volunteered to work with a particular player, so yes, it is smart for me to not bite the hand that could affect my immediate future, but it is equally important for me to show strength of character and prove that my change in perception and is never guilty of false accolades just to "politic" my own status.
 
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#46
#46
Chris89128 said:
Yet another thread is turning into a bash/criticize Holly thread
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it IS a Ky thread, true, but it is a UT LV page. So it IS inevitable that it will turn into a UT thread... But if things keep going in the way they are the feeling will be a little more towards the present movement and moves that are being made by CHW and not the focus on the past's perceptions and measures. . . The players need to hear, read and know it is supported top to bottom so it can get to the business of summer workouts.
 
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