Kill Team: War Crimes in Afghanistan

#26
#26
JTrainDavis said:
Don't get me wrong, there was a gross failure within the unit involved. But those above who choose to use these things as a brush to paint the entire mission, well, you're wrong as 2 boys ****ing at church.
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I don't think OP meant it as a sweeping statement. Just a disturbing story. I don't think of this as an insult to bring out on memorial day - if anything...prosecuting and defaming these individuals is a service to those who fought and died honorably.
 
#27
#27
JTrainDavis said:
Instances please.

If you had read the article as opposed to popping off, you'd realize this wasn't anything like a case of abused authority. At all.
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Here's one. Want more?

My Lai Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They abused their power. Just like you say the police do. Both are at fault, but you didn't see anyone bashing the military like you did attacking the police. People show respect to you and for what you've done, do the same for others.
 
#29
#29
KiffinKiller said:
I don't think OP meant it as a sweeping statement. Just a disturbing story. I don't think of this as an insult to bring out on memorial day - if anything...prosecuting and defaming these individuals is a service to those who fought and died honorably.
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Oh, dont get me wrong, I agree on these points.

But the willingness to make sweeping generalizations as to the mission, right or wrong, and thereby those participanting in it, based on a shock value article pisses me off.
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#31
#31
I suppose I was asking to see some report on sport killings of civilians that could be regarded as endorsed or encouraged, whether openly or by implied consent.

You're quick to paint an entire conflict as a kid killing extravaganza.
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#32
#32
Just really hated to see everyone's opinion of police when our military hasn't always done the right thing themselves. I appreciate and respect them both. Everyone makes mistakes, you won't see me making generalizations based on those mistakes, despite what you think.
 
#33
#33
I don't think a couple of dozens actions represent the whole military, but it appears to be statistically inevitable in wars (a couple of dozen being sick enough to commit war atrocities). The problem is that it creates a vicious cycle of more extremism and more intervention. One incident such as 10 terrorists crashing a plane into a building in America leads to 10 years of military intervention in the Middle East. I don't think the terrorist represented a whole lot of them either. But one thing leads to another, and next thing you know everybody hates each other.

Edit: A for every couple of demented US soldiers, there's thousands that a very good people. The result is still the same, the few *******s ruin it for everyone in the eyes of the rest of the world. (this is another incident: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_killings)
 
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#35
#35
VOLatile said:
Yeah, I heard about this maybe a month ago or so. Maybe longer. I, honestly, have no idea wtf we're doing over there. No. Freaking. Idea.

Crap like this goes on all of the time and people wonder why I don't openly "support the troops" who are over there fighting for my "freedom." I'm not scared of Afghani civilians... or any Afghanis for that matter. They're killing innocent people.
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This is one of the most ignorant posts I have seen on here in a while. Have to say it ranks up there with some of gsvol's most ignorant posts. Happy Memorial Day, btw. Hope your enjoying the freedoms those "civilian murderers" are fighting to defend while you sit over here and slander them.
 
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#36
#36
VOLatile said:
Yeah, I heard about this maybe a month ago or so. Maybe longer. I, honestly, have no idea wtf we're doing over there. No. Freaking. Idea.

Crap like this goes on all of the time and people wonder why I don't openly "support the troops" who are over there fighting for my "freedom." I'm not scared of Afghani civilians... or any Afghanis for that matter. They're killing innocent people.
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Vol_4_Life said:
This is one of the most ignorant posts I have seen on here in a while. Have to say it ranks up there with some of gsvol's most ignorant posts. Happy Memorial Day, btw.
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I cannot argue with VOLatile's first three sentences. The last sentence though, "[U.S. Troops are] killing innocent people" is misguided and misinformed. While some innocent persons are always killed as an unfortunate result of combat and war, the vast majority of the persons that are being killed through ISAF actions are not innocent.
 
#37
#37
therealUT said:
I cannot argue with VOLatile's first three sentences. The last sentence though, "[U.S. Troops are] killing innocent people" is misguided and misinformed. While some innocent persons are always killed as an unfortunate result of combat and war, the vast majority of the persons that are being killed through ISAF actions are not innocent.
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Same. Before I watched Restrepo, I hadn't a clue about what was going on in afghanistan. I knew the the objectives and had an imaginative idea about what it was like, but no realistic view.
 
#38
#38
KiffinKiller said:
Same. Before I watched Restrepo, I hadn't a clue about what was going on in afghanistan. I knew the the objectives and had an imaginative idea about what it was like, but no realistic view.
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I'm not sure that following a weak Company Commander around for a year provides the most realistic view on Afghanistan. From what I saw in the documentary, the only conclusion I could draw was that guy was a walking sh**-show.
 
#39
#39
therealUT said:
I'm not sure that following a weak Company Commander around for a year provides the most realistic view on Afghanistan. From what I saw in the documentary, the only conclusion I could draw was that guy was a walking sh**-show.
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Carney? (sp?) i don't pretend to be familiar with the inner workings of the armed forces...can you clarify why he's so bad? Movie seemed to paint him in a fairly positive light as opposed to his predecessor.
 
#40
#40
KiffinKiller said:
Carney? (sp?) i don't pretend to be familiar with the inner workings of the armed forces...can you clarify why he's so bad? Movie seemed to paint him in a fairly positive light as opposed to his predecessor.
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He starts out by saying that he decided not to read anything regarding Korengal Valley, because he wanted to go in open-minded. Ignorance is not synonymous with open-mindedness. When we were on the patch chart for Afghanistan, our BDE and BN Commanders pushed a reading list down to all the junior officers; we then had bi-weekly Officer Professional Development discussions based around the books. When we were switched to the Iraq patch chart, the reading list changed, but we maintained the discussions. As a Company Commander, one wants to be as armed as possible, both with weapons and equipment as well as with knowledge and information. I agree that Carney made a good decision to set up the LP/OP; however, this was a decision that could have and should have come either prior to actually setting foot in the Valley or just afterward (I was absolutely baffled as to why the previous unit did not make the sustained effort to control the key terrain around their COP).

Throughout the entire documentary, Carney continues to display this same type of blissful ignorance, from being caught off-guard and on his heels in the meetings with the local elders, to being completely blindsided as to the Most Likely and Most Dangerous Courses of Action that the enemy might take during their large offensive.

Carney struck me as too concerned with ensuring that he had a mohawk (really, as a Company Commander...a f***ing mohawk?!?!) and "encouraging pep-talks" for his Company, than with actually doing what needed to be done to put them in a position to succeed.

Fortunately, his 1SG came off as very strong and very professional, as did a number of the PSGs and SLs.
 
#41
#41
therealUT said:
He starts out by saying that he decided not to read anything regarding Korengal Valley, because he wanted to go in open-minded. Ignorance is not synonymous with open-mindedness. When we were on the patch chart for Afghanistan, our BDE and BN Commanders pushed a reading list down to all the junior officers; we then had bi-weekly Officer Professional Development discussions based around the books. When we were switched to the Iraq patch chart, the reading list changed, but we maintained the discussions. As a Company Commander, one wants to be as armed as possible, both with weapons and equipment as well as with knowledge and information. I agree that Carney made a good decision to set up the LP/OP; however, this was a decision that could have and should have come either prior to actually setting foot in the Valley or just afterward (I was absolutely baffled as to why the previous unit did not make the sustained effort to control the key terrain around their COP).

Throughout the entire documentary, Carney continues to display this same type of blissful ignorance, from being caught off-guard and on his heels in the meetings with the local elders, to being completely blindsided as to the Most Likely and Most Dangerous Courses of Action that the enemy might take during their large offensive.

Carney struck me as too concerned with ensuring that he had a mohawk (really, as a Company Commander...a f***ing mohawk?!?!) and "encouraging pep-talks" for his Company, than with actually doing what needed to be done to put them in a position to succeed.

Fortunately, his 1SG came off as very strong and very professional, as did a number of the PSGs and SLs.
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I understand. I guess the reason he sounded like such a success was the two or three references or reminders of how bad (?) his predecessor was. Though im ignorant of military tactics and operations, as you said the key was establishing the OP in key terrain - which begs the question why no one had thought of that beforehand.
 
#43
#43
Poster who rely on the media to report the truth will never grasp what's going on in Afghanistan. I haven't witnessed first hand what the military is accomplishing. I have read multiple non fiction articles and books from different nations, reporters and branches of the military to have some vague ideas on who, what, when and why the US military plans on staying in Afghanistan til 2014.
 
#45
#45
CaVOLfn said:
?
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The Marines are the ones who initially established the firebase in the Korengal. They are the ones who chose the absolute worst piece of territory for such a firebase, and they took no control of the surrounding heights and the key terrain.
 
#46
#46
therealUT said:
The Marines are the ones who initially established the firebase in the Korengal. They are the ones who chose the absolute worst piece of territory for such a firebase, and they took no control of the surrounding heights and the key terrain.
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Gotcha...for a minute I thought you were cleverly starting a juvenile pissing contest about the different branches on Memorial Day
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#47
#47
TXVOL07 said:
What difference does it make if someone else had heard of this, and more importantly, why are you pushing this so hard today of all days?
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I happened to find out about it May 29th.

My friend who alerted me to this told me it is huge news in Europe, and Rolling Stone reported it 3 months ago. Like I already said, I am wondering why the media has been so quiet. If none of you have heard of it, it means the media's been absurdly quiet.
 
#49
#49
nbakerld said:
I happened to find out about it May 29th.

My friend who alerted me to this told me it is huge news in Europe, and Rolling Stone reported it 3 months ago. Like I already said, I am wondering why the media has been so quiet. If none of you have heard of it, it means the media's been absurdly quiet.
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It was big news when it was reported. It was and has continued to be all over NPR. The NYT's has written several articles regarding it. The media has not been absurdly quiet about this. That said, the media has also been tackling a bunch of other issues: Birth Certificates, the killing of bin Laden, tornadoes, debt ceilings, budgets, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Gaza Strip, etc.

Do you want this story to be on the front page, every single day?

The fact is, there is not much of an angle to be played with this story and it serves no greater purpose. It is pretty cut and dry. A demented squad leader ordered the guys in his squad to murder. One of the privates who did so is now the main witness who will testify against the SL, in return for a reduced sentence (twenty years). The moment the CoC was alerted to this, appropriate action was taken against the SL and the Soldiers in the squad.
 
#50
#50
therealUT said:
It was big news when it was reported. It was and has continued to be all over NPR. The NYT's has written several articles regarding it. The media has not been absurdly quiet about this. That said, the media has also been tackling a bunch of other issues: Birth Certificates, the killing of bin Laden, tornadoes, debt ceilings, budgets, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Gaza Strip, etc.

Do you want this story to be on the front page, every single day?

The fact is, there is not much of an angle to be played with this story and it serves no greater purpose. It is pretty cut and dry. A demented squad leader ordered the guys in his squad to murder. One of the privates who did so is now the main witness who will testify against the SL, in return for a reduced sentence (twenty years). The moment the CoC was alerted to this, appropriate action was taken against the SL and the Soldiers in the squad.
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You are killing agendas here trut.
 
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