Kyle Rittenhouse - The Truth in 11 Minutes

#5,229
#5,229
hndog609 said:
I'm pretty sure when the phrase most commonly used is "Innocent until proven guilty" there is literally no need to be "proven" innocent. If you start out presumed innocent from a defense perspective what is there to prove...extra double special innocent? A finding of "not guilty" is basically having the charges leveled by the prosecution found insufficient for guilty verdict.

I know it can turn into a bit of a word salad but do you get how the above works? The onus isn't on the defense to prove innocence (and that's a damn good thing, with the presumed innocence and all) but rather on the prosecution to sufficiently override that presumption.
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I get that there is no need to prove innocence. That court cases rarely I ever give a verdict of innocence. I would rephrase that Kyle Rittenhouse was found justified in self defense.
 
#5,230
#5,230
Kyle started his trial as innocent and by stating self defense the prosecution must now prove to the jury beyond any of their reasonable doubts that self defense does not apply and Kyle is therefore guilty of what he was charged with.
The jury saying not guilty simply means the prosecution failed to prove their case beyond any reasonable doubts the jury had.
Since Kyle started out as innocent until proven guilty, he remains innocent with a verdict of not guilty. Nobody had to find him innocent as that is his starting point of the trial.
 
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#5,231
#5,231
ClearwaterVol said:
Really? You fail to grasp the most basic of legal principles when I have tried repeatedly to walk you through them. You have shown yourself to be ignorant and unreceptive to changing that fact. Toodles and enjoy Thanksgiving.



I wasn't discussing the whole f#cking trial. I was what is actually "proven" in a court of law. You are not proven innocent there is simply a failure to prove guilt.

You have a presumption of innocence, but you are never required to prove your innocence.

He still has a presumption of innocence, but that presumption was not proven.

By way of example, the jury could believe that it is more likely than not that he shot those people without justification, but that is not enough prove his guilt in a criminal court. It would be enough in a civil trial. Remember OJ.
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You’re really just arguing for the sake of arguing now.
 
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#5,232
#5,232
DynaLo said:
Kyle started his trial as innocent and by stating self defense the prosecution must now prove to the jury beyond any of their reasonable doubts that self defense does not apply and Kyle is therefore guilty of what he was charged with.
The jury saying not guilty simply means the prosecution failed to prove their case beyond any reasonable doubts the jury had.
Since Kyle started out as innocent until proven guilty, he remains innocent with a verdict of not guilty. Nobody had to find him innocent as that is his starting point of the trial.
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I gotta disagree here. Kyle spent a significant amount of time in jail as did nearly every person accused of a crime if they couldn’t afford bail. You don’t have to like it because neither do I but “innocent until proven guilty” is BS. You’re guilty until proven innocent.
 
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#5,233
#5,233
1vol8 said:
I gotta disagree here. Kyle spent a significant amount of time in jail as did nearly every person accused of a crime if they couldn’t afford bail. You don’t have to like it because neither do I but “innocent until proven guilty” is BS. You’re guilty until proven innocent.
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what?
 
#5,238
#5,238
1vol8 said:
Did I misunderstand what was being discussed? If we’re talking about “innocent until proven guilty” vs “guilty until proven innocent”. It’s the latter. My apologies if I misunderstood.
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Presumption of innocence is actually a farce. The word innocence should be replaced with presumption of being not guilty. The term innocent until proven guilty is just worded to make one feel better about the justice system.
 
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#5,239
#5,239
tnmarktx said:
Presumption of innocence is actually a farce. The word innocence should be replaced with presumption of being not guilty. The term innocent until proven guilty is just worded to make one feel better about the justice system.
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That’s one of the main things I hated the most even as a cop that made the arrest. I never agreed with them sitting in jail until their case was heard and the best the system could do is “my bad” if they were found innocent and time served if guilty.
 
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#5,240
#5,240
VolStrom said:
I'd have to know which way the wheels are pointed before I could render a decision. Surely you're not just now finding BayVol's posts?
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I haven't paid that much attention, but after reading a few of his posts - I can't imagine anyone being this obtuse without a plan.






Actually, I can. 😁
 
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#5,241
#5,241
Rittenhouse posing for photo ops with Trump tends to support my theory that he had and still has visions of glory. He'll be popular with the open carry loons for awhile but invariably that fades. When that happens and no one is patting him on the back anymore, it's going to be a rough fall from grace.
 
#5,245
#5,245
KB5252 said:
You're manufacturing much of this in your own mind. It simply doesn't state what you say it does.
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I can state it word for word and they are still trying to influence how you should use their product after the sale by telling you that there’s nothing to celebrate . Here’s another one for you .. “ buy our “DearSlayer” tents “ only we don’t want to be associated with Deer hunting . We feel disheartened that people use our tents to kill animals . Do you see ?
 
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#5,246
#5,246
1vol8 said:
I gotta disagree here. Kyle spent a significant amount of time in jail as did nearly every person accused of a crime if they couldn’t afford bail. You don’t have to like it because neither do I but “innocent until proven guilty” is BS. You’re guilty until proven innocent.
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Kyle stayed in jail so long because Lin Wood refused to use the funds, donated specifically to bail out Kyle, as early as they possibly could. That money was sat on by Wood’s group for around a month or more extra instead of getting the kid out.

I seriously wish folks that donated would all request refunds now just to get that 2 million away from Wood’s group.
 
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#5,248
#5,248
DynaLo said:
Kyle stayed in jail so long because Lin Wood refused to use the funds, donated specifically to bail out Kyle, as early as they possibly could. That money was sat on by Wood’s group for around a month or more extra instead of getting the kid out.

I seriously wish folks that donated would all request refunds now just to get that 2 million away from Wood’s group.
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Point is he had to sit there as if he were guilty until he could make bail. That’s guilty until proven innocent.
 
#5,249
#5,249
tnmarktx said:
I'd say he'll be ok. The media that keep labeling him a white supremacists could be liable for defamation.
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His lawyer said on CNN Monday that all he and Rittenhouse want is to fade into obscurity.

So he goes on TC and goes for photo op with Trump within 72 hours. Rittenhouse's deer caught in headlights shtick was a lie to begin with.
 
#5,250
#5,250
lawgator1 said:
His lawyer said on CNN Monday that all he and Rittenhouse want is to fade into obscurity.

So he goes on TC and goes for photo op with Trump within 72 hours. Rittenhouse's deer caught in headlights shtick was a lie to begin with.
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He is a evil genius
 
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