Last year Phil first year Butch

#27
#27
majorvol said:
What if Taji Bold would have came?
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Spelling a little off but I know who you mean. IMHO it wouldn't have made any difference. Kiffin didn't want him anyway. I'm glad it worked out for him at Clemson.
Seems like a good dude.
GO VOLS!
 
#28
#28
ric1958 said:
Yes. Fulmer should still be here but I like Butch.
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Wrong Apples and Oranges - Phil had followed Johnny Majors and inherited a good team - experience success - made a poor hiring decision - didn't have a plan for Cutcliff leaving - and quit recruiting or at least quit experiencing recruiting success.

Coach Jones - followed Dickweed Dooley - lost his top 4 weapons off the offense - all 4 of whom essentially left early - was preceded by 4 years of horrible recruiting results - putting in new schemes on offense and defense - lost his starting qb - and has had amazing success on the recruiting front - the results of which will be seen in two years.
 
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#29
#29
fade route said:
The downfall of the program was not Fulmer, it was 2 bad hires in a row after him. You can recover quickly from one, but 2 will set you back for almost a decade.
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You are not living in the real world. Fulmer had two 5 win seasons in his last 4 years. He did bring us to greatest, he then led us to mediocrity. To say otherwise is not taking a realistic look at the program.
 
#30
#30
Fullfillmer said:
Wrong Apples and Oranges - Phil had followed Johnny Majors and inherited a good team - experience success - made a poor hiring decision - didn't have a plan for Cutcliff leaving - and quit recruiting or at least quit experiencing recruiting success.

Coach Jones - followed Dickweed Dooley - lost his top 4 weapons off the offense - all 4 of whom essentially left early - was preceded by 4 years of horrible recruiting results - putting in new schemes on offense and defense - lost his starting qb - and has had amazing success on the recruiting front - the results of which will be seen in two years.
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Even though Fulmers last year was a disappointment it was still a good team that kiffin inherited and was able to run in the ground in just one short year. Then Dooley was not a good enough coach to fix kiffins mess and now Butch is paying for that. If you or anyone else thinks that if Fulmer were still here that we would be losing 6 to 7 games every year you are wrong.
 
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#32
#32
LWSVOL said:
accurate..
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I always repect your opinions. I find you to be one of the most credible posters on VN . You are usually spot on. On this topic I do not agree, to say the downfall of the program was due to two bad hires by the AD is ridiculous. The program had been slowly going downhill since the 2001 season with two 5 win seasons. The downfall definitely started under Fulmer, two bad hires escalated it
 
#33
#33
majorvol said:
Could Phil turn it around
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what does one mean when they use "turn around"?

During Fulmer's time since 1999 Tennessee averaged 8.5 wins per year and appeared in 3 SECCGs.

Since he was fired, Tennessee has averaged 5.8 wins a year.

IMO, Fulmer would have maintained that direction of average wins per year with an occasional SECCG appearance. Maybe one of those appearances would have resulted in an SEC championship. No way to know this but it is my speculation.

At some point, and I hope it is Jones since we don't need another change, a coach is going to "turn around" the program and get Tennessee back to the point Fulmer had things during the 2000s.

Will someone get Tennessee back to winning 2 SEC championship in 17 year period? That is hard to say. the SEC is tough. Could happen but it could be 20 years before it does.

Spurrier is still trying to win an SEC Championship at Carolina. He is a pretty good football coach but struggles to accomplish that.

As I have said many times in last several years, I sure hope to see another SEC Championship before I die but I understand it may not occur.
 
#34
#34
i hate to say it, but i wish we had phil back. if we were going to go down the toilet might as well let him be the captain. at least he earned it. hamilton destroyed the program with horrible hires. it is what happens when you put somebody in charge that shouldn't be there.
 
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#35
#35
Gramps said:
I always repect your opinions. I find you to be one of the most credible posters on VN . You are usually spot on. On this topic I do not agree, to say the downfall of the program was due to two bad hires by the AD is ridiculous. The program had been slowly going downhill since the 2001 season with two 5 win seasons. The downfall definitely started under Fulmer, two bad hires escalated it
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thank you.

Don't mind disagreeing opinions. See my post after the one you responded to.

I don't believe Fulmer would have gotten us back to 90s level because I don't believe we ever see that again. I do believe he would have maintained the 8.5 wins a year he had us on during this 2000 decade.

just my opinion
 
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#36
#36
Grizzly Vol said:
Expecting an immediate turnaround after everything that has went down in the last few years? Yes asking way too much.

Don't mean to group everyone into one stereotype because I know there are logical people here, but seems a lot were expecting world beaters this year and the fact we have struggled means CBJ and staff are instant failures here.
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I don't think anyone expected an immediate turnaround and return to prominence, but rather an end to the regression that we saw during the Kiffen/Dooley era. Are we seriously at a point where as fans of this program, that we shouldn't be upset when the team actually gets worse at the basics as the season goes along?
 
#37
#37
majorvol said:
It seem they were under the same circumstances. We expected more from Phil and we expected more from Butch. Are we asking too much ?
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The real coach got in his players face last Saturday, that's why he won.....Tennessee players are not mean and nasty....:clapping:
 
#38
#38
Disclaimers - I am not a football coach. I have never played a down of football. I am not an expert and don't claim to be.
What I am, is a long time Vol fan and will be till I'm dead. I hate losing as much as the next fan. Having said all that, I believe Butch will have us back competing for the East division one day. He talks about the PROCESS. That starts with attitude. Vu didn't win last week because of talent. Franklin has instilled a winning attitude in those players, and they KNEW they were going to find a way to win.
We don't have that winning attitude and that's why we lost. Not scheme, not play calling, not less talent. The process CBJ talks about, starts with the mind....or attitude if you will. I think this '14 class has already bought into CBJ's "process". It will take time, and it hurts with every loss. Please, don't blame these young men because of our losses. They want to win more than we do.
Take a cue from this incoming class and BELIEVE. They could teach a lot of us a lesson in being "fans".
 
#39
#39
Gramps said:
I always repect your opinions. I find you to be one of the most credible posters on VN . You are usually spot on. On this topic I do not agree, to say the downfall of the program was due to two bad hires by the AD is ridiculous. The program had been slowly going downhill since the 2001 season with two 5 win seasons. The downfall definitely started under Fulmer, two bad hires escalated it
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Your last statement is correct imo. Yes, it was time for Fulmer to pass the torch, and with the right hire, we could have rebounded quickly. But the 1-2 punch of Kiffin and Dooley means we have an entire roster that knows nothing except substandard football. That means the losing culture has set in, and it takes more than 11 games to change that but some on here can't seem to grasp that concept.
 
#42
#42
Hey, I'm full Butch. His assistants? Meh. That being said, we would still be struggling with Fulmer here. The game had passed him by. Seems like there was a portion of members on VN around the time Fulmer got axed who said things like, "you cannot fathom how far back CPF has set this program." Coincidence?

Kiffin did NOT inherit a good team. He inherited a bunch of thugs who were used to pushing their coach around. Dools inherited even worse. Seems like we haven't had much off-field issues the past year or 2, but the talent level has deteriorated in a major way. We need a qb. We need receivers. We need linemen. We're slow everywhere. We don't play with heart. We have no confidence. We have no swag. CBJ has GOT to keep this class together, get them on the field and overcome this loser mentality that seems to abound.
 
#43
#43
oregonvol said:
Expecting 6 wins from a coach at a major program is never "asking too much".
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Totally agree ... especially when you consider that 3 of the 4 OOC games are against patsies. Given at least 3 wins every season means that the Vols are going 3-9 for the remainder of the season against quality teams. I think that we would all agree that 3-9 is terrible and that the Vols should win at least 4 or 5 games against quality competition which would result in 7 to 8 wins every season at MINIMUM. Hopefully Coach Cliché will get some SEC caliber coordinators and get Tennessee back on track.
 
#44
#44
majorvol said:
What if Taji Bold would have came?
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Well Kiffin is the one that ran him off because he did not think he would fit well in his system. Had he not done that, I don't think Taji would have had as much success than he did at Clemson due the the Dooly system. I do think he would have done really well in Butch's system.
 
#45
#45
I like that Butch sometimes claps like Fulmer. Makes me smile even though it usually means something ****ty just happened.
 
#46
#46
AlaskaVol said:
Time to stop parroting Obama. The blame for today is no longer on Fulmer. This line of BS is getting real old.
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Never meant to imply the talent level now is Fulmers fault, hence the past tense "was". I am saying that Fulmer won only five with the talent he inherited from himself. Butch is coaching Kiffin and Dooley recruits- lot of turnover, defections and filler.
 
#47
#47
It was a mistake to let Fulmer go, but what's done is done. We have the right man now in the job. Just let him do it.
 
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#50
#50
BeardedVol said:
I don't think anyone expected an immediate turnaround and return to prominence, but rather an end to the regression that we saw during the Kiffen/Dooley era. Are we seriously at a point where as fans of this program, that we shouldn't be upset when the team actually gets worse at the basics as the season goes along?
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You could've fooled me. I really do believe there are some people on here who want to fire everyone and start over. But as I said in my first post, I didn't want to group everyone into the overreacting stereotype.

We should all be disappointed in how this season has played out. As you said we have regressed and I'm sure we'd all like to know the cause, but given the schedule and the obvious lack of depth, this season was going to be a trying one.
 
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