Last Year's Talent

[checkerboards09]

I will support whoever wears the power T. Most of them are probably great people, but to think these guys were actually good football players were delusional. We played like diddly poo last year. Coach Jones can't play the game for them. I already know Butch is a great coach.
I said last year's squad was a five win team. Jones hit my baseline expectation.

How were our players not good? There were a lot of powerhouse programs that wanted those players, not just us. Are you saying we swung and missed on every recruit? I find that hard to believe if you think that.

 

[Burger]

How were our players not good? There were a lot of powerhouse programs that wanted those players, not just us. Are you saying we swung and missed on every recruit? I find that hard to believe if you think that.

They were coached so poorly while they were at UT. They were good high school players, but they got no better in college. The damage was done before Jones arrived. How do you not get one yard on a fourth and one?

 

[checkerboards09]

They were coached so poorly while they were at UT. They were good high school players, but they got no better in college. The damage was done before Jones arrived. How do you not get one yard on a fourth and one?

I may have misunderstood, my apologies. I agree, Dooley was the unmotivator. That's exactly why I think our OL and DL won't drop off as much as some believe. We've almost got a clean slate and I'm alright with that. Gives the new lines this year a chance to start up something special fora coach that actually seems to care.

 

[24/7vol]

CBJ coached a terrible game against Vandy. That said I still think that he is the man and did a very good job in all the other games..especially against UGA and USCe. Coaches like players have an occassional off day. jmo

 

[Burger]

I may have misunderstood, my apologies. I agree, Dooley was the unmotivator. That's exactly why I think our OL and DL won't drop off as much as some believe. We've almost got a clean slate and I'm alright with that. Gives the new lines this year a chance to start up something special fora coach that actually seems to care.

Exactly, we need a clean slate on both lines. These guys will probably be better coached on the field and in the weight room unlike our last guys.

 

[Rooster1]

That's leaves us playing with 12 veteran 4 stars.

Of which 1 was suspended for the season (Couch), 1 was redshirted due to an injury (Maggitt), and 1 was redshirted for this season (Jackson).

That leaves 9 4 star players for our staff to work with last season. And some of you don't understand why we had a losing season.

So the 8 four star "underclassmen" did not count? But wait, you are also making the argument that all of the new four star cruits from past class will "significantly" improve the team talent. So they help for the 2014 outlook but must be taken out of the equation when evaluating 2013 season? Seems logical.:whistling:

 

[sjt18]

I will support whoever wears the power T. Most of them are probably great people, but to think these guys were actually good football players were delusional. We played like diddly poo last year. Coach Jones can't play the game for them. I already know Butch is a great coach.
I said last year's squad was a five win team. Jones hit my baseline expectation.

I will not say the players were great or ideal. I WILL say that the coaching was not where it has to be either. You bring up being unable to get a yard vs Vandy. That's a function of the play call too. It is a function of having your QB ready to check off or make the correct line call. There is a LOT of coaching in that failure in addition to any player shortcoming.

I will also say... had the strategy, gameplanning, and playcalling been good... it would not have been close enough for that one play or VU's last drive to be the difference. BTW, the playcalling in that last defensive series was pretty poor also. You are playing for your goal... a bowl birth... and play that soft?

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

Stewart then Manning took over as Fr after Colquitt and Helton went down to injury. Clausen started as a Fr. Ainge and Schaeffer were co-starters in 2004 as Fr. Bray took over from an ineffective Simms as a Fr. All of those teams won games with those Fr at QB.

Dobbs wasn't ready. Part of that is understandable since the WR's weren't mature or playing particularly well either. But unless you are saying these guys had no talent... it all falls under coaching.

Different teams, different role players. I can guarantee you that those QB's got more production out of their WR's.

 

[Certifiedhands11]

i do not understand what people see in aj johnson.

when he gets his arms on a guy, he makes the tackle. i give him that. he is a sure tackler.

however, he is an average football player at best as some of his flaws aren't merely flaws but are a huge issue

Average at best? No, he's not the fastest backer we've ever had. No, he's not the best tackler in space. No, he can't play pass coverage, man or zone, worth a flip (and that's more because he's so stiff in the hips and doesn't change direction/turn and run very well). BUT.... That dude is in on or makes dang near every single tackle of every game. His measurables (40, vert, broad jump, etc.) aren't gonna blow anybody away, but he's a gamer. He has a nose for the football and if it weren't for him the last couple seasons, those terrible defensive numbers would've been exponentially worse. I don't think AJ is a top 15 LB in the country by any means, but he's no scrub. Making 100+ tackles in the SEC is no walk in the park, my friend. Hopefully having Maggitt beside him this year will help cover some ground out there.

 

[LWSVOL]

I agree.

Again, agree. It just doesn't take a completely rebuilt program to develop a habit of beating the teams you have a talent advantage over. Daj says there are 8 on UT's schedule this fall. Even accounting for the experience factor, there are six reasonably winnable games on the schedule this fall. I do not think it is asking too much of a coach to win 95% plus of the contests in which he has the better roster. Yes, injuries will occur... but they will happen to Vandy, Mizzou, USCe, and Ole Miss as well. None of those teams are in any better position to lose critical players than UT.

No. It simply doesn't. It will likely happen within 2 years if you have the right guy. Just in the last few years Malzahn, Sumlin, Freeze, Kelly, USU's previous coach, and others have done it almost immediately. NONE of them needed to rotate players out.


Again, I agree. But that isn't something you wait 5 years to evaluate. Like with any other improvement cycle in any type of activity, you look for him to achieve reasonable benchmarks along the way that point to the potential of becoming great. It is pure futility to "hope" you have a guy who will one day prove himself to be elite or great then accept that he only "meet" minimum expectations until some magical future moment.

By saying 5 wins is acceptable this fall, folks are saying that it is fine if he only beats teams he should beat while losing to one team that has less talent.

I am NOT saying he's hopeless or should be fired if he only gets 5 wins this fall. I AM saying that he needs to do something dramatically better in year 3 if he only wins 5 this fall or else there should be VERY serious doubts about whether he's the guy to resurrect the program.

If we are looking for a more smooth curve then 6-8 is what he needs this fall followed up by around 10 (possibly including a bowl) in '15. That expectation is a function both of expecting improvement and a somewhat lighter schedule.

I never talk about what is acceptable or not. At least I hope I don't. I try very hard not to proclaim coaches as failures in public. I just prefer never to put out that the negativity toward the coaching. I have personally seen how message board negativity toward a coaching staff can have a negative impact on the program. Several times. So I try my best to not do that.

I do talk about what I believe may happen with a particular season as far as the games go. I think the one area that you and I struggle to agree on is the talent versus experience factors. There is no doubt the talent level has increased greatly with the 2014 class. Best potential talent since the early 200o's on this roster.

When you review teams that are in a rebuilding mode, it is not unusual to see many true freshman have to play. the majority are not physically or mentally ready to compete at an SEC level. Having to play many of them that early typically leads to many breakdowns at critical junctures in games. At times that happens versus teams that the talent differences is in your favor but mistakes by youth lead to unexpected losses. The flip can occur too where they play out of their mind good and beat someone they shouldn't. But more often there are more negative plays than positive plays from youth.

You can have a couple or so elite level talents that come in and can play right away very well. Hopefully we have a few of those in this class.

Your response is the other teams have the same issues. If they are playing the amount of youth we will have to, they will have those issues. I've just not seen a breakdown of who we are playing where they have as much inexperience as we will be depending on. That is why I'm stuck on 5. and I realize it could end up 6.. can't see anything over that really without some big time luck.

 

[tm3]

CBJ coached a terrible game against Vandy. That said I still think that he is the man and did a very good job in all the other games..especially against UGA and USCe. Coaches like players have an occassional off day. jmo

bad against vandy, but imo the worst against UF which was a worse team than vandy last year.

horrible decision at starting QB, inexplicable brain dead decision on leaving same QB in the game after his 1st turnover ... and his 2nd ... and his 3rd ...

 

[Burger]

I will not say the players were great or ideal. I WILL say that the coaching was not where it has to be either. You bring up being unable to get a yard vs Vandy. That's a function of the play call too. It is a function of having your QB ready to check off or make the correct line call. There is a LOT of coaching in that failure in addition to any player shortcoming.

I will also say... had the strategy, gameplanning, and playcalling been good... it would not have been close enough for that one play or VU's last drive to be the difference. BTW, the playcalling in that last defensive series was pretty poor also. You are playing for your goal... a bowl birth... and play that soft?

Most of our players last year were soft. Franklin actually did a good job coaching up his decent talent the last 3 years as Jones was trying to clean up Dooleys mess. Franklin's Vandy team was better than our hodgepodge of crap. They were decently coached.
It was Dobbs fault that he didn't check at 4th and 1. Not coach Jones. Once again, Coach can preach and preach, but our players didn't execute. Our line was so weak last year that they couldn't push one friggin yard.

Coach Jones will prove that he deserves to be here with his talent.

 

[Rooster1]

Most of our players last year were soft. Franklin actually did a good job coaching up his decent talent the last 3 years as Jones was trying to clean up Dooleys mess. Franklin's Vandy team was better than our hodgepodge of crap. They were decently coached.
It was Dobbs fault that he didn't check at 4th and 1. Not coach Jones. Once again, Coach can preach and preach, but our players didn't execute. Our line was so weak last year that they couldn't push one friggin yard.

Coach Jones will prove that he deserves to be here with his talent.

Most of that line will be making a living in the League next year, meaning the staff should have been able to make good on them in college ball, that is not a good sign. Sometimes a new coach takes over a program loaded with experienced talent and he gets no credit because he "inherited" a good situation, but what about when a staff inherits NFL talent and does not succeeded? With those two veteran lines last year, I would have expected better play than UT fans witnessed. If that is not at least partly on the staff, than who?

 

[Vol4life25]

he appears slow because he is slow.

aj johnson is a classic example of a guy who people think is great because he's the best you have.

he isn't great. he isn't good. and he isn't going to look better after having lost a 7'10" 5,000 lb defensive tackle.

he doesn't get off blocks welling. he doesn't get to the outside. and he isn't going to cover backs or tight ends very effectively.

in addition, if he were as good as people here think, he would have left for the draft. it was not a banner year for linebackers in the draft, particularly inside linebackers. only 1 inside linebacker was drafted in the 1st two rounds.

Dude, he plays a crap ton of downs, because are 2 deep sucks

In high school, our coach ran the **** out of us..then timed our 40s. Fresh I ran a 4.6, tired I ran a 4.9, similar with my teammates. When you're tired you are a lot slower.

 

[coach12]

last year's talent=ex-girlfriend

 

[Rooster1]

Most of that line will be making a living in the League next year, meaning the staff should have been able to make good on them in college ball, that is not a good sign. Sometimes a new coach takes over a program loaded with experienced talent and he gets no credit because he "inherited" a good situation, but what about when a staff inherits NFL talent and does not succeeded? With those two veteran lines last year, I would have expected better play than UT fans witnessed. If that is not at least partly on the staff, than who?

Who then?

 

[Tennsolider1]

Where is Ryan Jenkins at??? Haven't heard anything about him at all. That's the one WR that hasn't been healthy enough for anything yet or is something else going on??

 

[Rooster1]

Who then?

Rhetorical question. It was obviously a coaching issue if those linemen can play NFL ball but underachieved in college.

 

[NashVOL93]

Was thinking about this, and wanted to throw in my $0.02 as it pertains to Malzahn and Jones -

Malzahn is a hell of a coach. I'm not taking anything away from him. The guy already won one title at the Barn and was 13 seconds away from winning another one. But the more I see people say this, the more it really bugs me to see people compare his situation to Jones. Stuff like "if Jones doesn't immediately produce more wins in Season 2 then he's not elite like Malzahn/Meyer/Kelly/Saban" etc. That's just ignorant. The two situations aren't even on the same planet, let alone the same ballpark - Malzahn inherited a roster chock-full of 4 and 5-star talent personally recruited by him after and during a National Championship season. Meanwhile, Jones inherited a pile of mostly undeveloped slaw - guys that had plenty of potential as recruits, but were basically screwed through no fault of their own by multiple coaching changes and lack of consistent skill development. He's basically having to make a living now off of Dooley's '11 and '12 classes, or what's left of them (not that those were even anywhere close to Auburn's to begin with).

The two situations are in no way, shape, or form comparable.

 

[Vol8188]

Who then?

What talent are you talking about? How many players did we actually have drafted?

 

[KBVol]

Rhetorical question. It was obviously a coaching issue if those linemen can play NFL ball but underachieved in college.

1. Are you arguing with yourself? 😊
2. 32 NFL teams, 7 different times, said 3 of the 5 from our OL last year couldn't play NFL ball earlier this month.