Lawsuit and Recruiting

[PalmettoStateVol]

Sorry that’s my opinion. You don’t like it tough. We have had so many fans for years belly aching about TN football. Well now there is a real opportunity for the average fan to help the program they have been complaining about for so long.

A 100k people have no issues with paying for parking, over priced food and drinks, merchandise, hotel rooms etc for games on Saturday. But can’t afford $5 a month? Get out of here. You can’t even buy a McDonalds quarter pounder with cheese for $5. How many TN Vol fans do you think there are? I am going to assume more than 100k. But let’s low ball and say there are 500k TN fans.

Now if all of those 500k people have $5 a month that’s 2.5 million. Now I believe 90% of that monthly fee goes to helping the program. So that’s 2.2 million. Sorry I don’t buy virtually everyone who attends a UT game cannot afford $60 per year. They just don’t want to.

Yeah I am sure your kids would admonish you for donating $5 per month. indeed.

You have the right to what ever opinion you want. I can respect your argument, but what about the tax money that is collected already from most of those people that live in TN that goes to the University? Do those scholarship players not already receive anywhere from $35,000 to $50,000 in tuition, room and board, etc. from those people when they accept their scholarship every year? In 2022, the Tennessee General Assembly earmarked $217 million for the University of Tennessee in the budget. There were 36,304 students enrolled in the fall of this year. If that money was equally divided that's just under $6,000 per student. That's not how it's distributed though. The kid busting his/her but in the classroom learning how to design and/or maintain infrastructure items such as the Henley Bridge you drive across to get to the game on Saturday is struggling to stay in school because of the rising cost of tuition. Meanwhile, the dude that can't hardly write his own name or speak coherently is getting paid tens of thousands of dollars a year on top of the FREE tuition, room and board, and perks because he can run really fast, bench press a lot of weight, and provides you entertainment on Saturday in the fall. But hey....championships, right? We desperately need those trophies and bragging rights. I would guess that most individuals look at this situation and have the mindset that these kids get enough of their hard earned money already. Look up the numbers of individuals, not only in TN, but in the U.S, that live paycheck to paycheck. The phrase 'a fool and his money are easily parted' has never been more true than in todays society. So yes, $5 per month is indeed a big deal for more individuals than you think.

 

[Volfan2012]

So the NCAA is saying that they are the Federal Government of college athletics and their law trumps state law. If that is their stance then stick a fork in them, they are done.

They are saying Tennessee agreed to follow whatever rules they made on NIL opposed to following state laws on NIL. Tennessee will win in court, but it puts them on a little bit of an island if other schools don't join and agree to be out of NCAA control. Tennessee will no longer be obligated to follow NCAA rules, but who will they play if every other school agrees to stay with the NCAA. I don't see that happening since every one is guilty of breaking the rules and would need to be punished.

 

[Redleg68]

They are saying Tennessee agreed to follow whatever rules they made on NIL opposed to following state laws on NIL. Tennessee will win in court, but it puts them on a little bit of an island if other schools don't join and agree to be out of NCAA control. Tennessee will no longer be obligated to follow NCAA rules, but who will they play if every other school agrees to stay with the NCAA. I don't see that happening since every one is guilty of breaking the rules and would need to be punished.

SO how do you get everyone one under the same set of rules that follows all the different state laws? Sounds like an impossible situation to me.

 

[Sudden Impact]

So the NCAA is saying that they are the Federal Government of college athletics and their law trumps state law. If that is their stance then stick a fork in them, they are done.

I guess any court settings will be in Tennessee and Virginia. By the time, the NCAA hands over all the requested discovery they will be cooked, toasted and roasted. The discovery is going show an in depth view of how the NCAA operates and how flawed they are in their protection of Student Athletes lives.
I don't think it will get that far and they will back down.
Then it will be followed by a defamation suit.

 

[Volfan2012]

I guess any court settings will be in Tennessee and Virginia. By the time, the NCAA hands over all the requested discovery they will be cooked, toasted and roasted. The discovery is going show an in depth view of how the NCAA operates and how flawed they are in their protection of Student Athletes lives.
I don't think it will get that far and they will back down.
Then it will be followed by a defamation suit.

The best thing the NCAA could do on this is back down and go back to saying follow state law. To bad for the schools that don't have the right state laws they need to get with their Governor and Reps and get them passed.

 

[freedom fighter]

You have the right to what ever opinion you want. I can respect your argument, but what about the tax money that is collected already from most of those people that live in TN that goes to the University? Do those scholarship players not already receive anywhere from $35,000 to $50,000 in tuition, room and board, etc. from those people when they accept their scholarship every year? In 2022, the Tennessee General Assembly earmarked $217 million for the University of Tennessee in the budget. There were 36,304 students enrolled in the fall of this year. If that money was equally divided that's just under $6,000 per student. That's not how it's distributed though. The kid busting his/her but in the classroom learning how to design and/or maintain infrastructure items such as the Henley Bridge you drive across to get to the game on Saturday is struggling to stay in school because of the rising cost of tuition. Meanwhile, the dude that can't hardly write his own name or speak coherently is getting paid tens of thousands of dollars a year on top of the FREE tuition, room and board, and perks because he can run really fast, bench press a lot of weight, and provides you entertainment on Saturday in the fall. But hey....championships, right? We desperately need those trophies and bragging rights. I would guess that most individuals look at this situation and have the mindset that these kids get enough of their hard earned money already. Look up the numbers of individuals, not only in TN, but in the U.S, that live paycheck to paycheck. The phrase 'a fool and his money are easily parted' has never been more true than in todays society. So yes, $5 per month is indeed a big deal for more individuals than you think.

Skip a coffee and you have $5, get real.

 

[PalmettoStateVol]

Skip a coffee and you have $5, get real.

Said the fool that is easily parted from his money.

 

[freedom fighter]

Said the fool that is easily parted from his money.

You are just TOO cheap to contribute $5 to Spyre. SAD

 

[volfeeva]

Doesn’t seem like we have enough fans that care about TN sports for that to happen. The overall support this fan base has shown towards NIL has been pathetic.

Maybe some of us haven't invested enough time into the whole process of the NIL to understand how it all works. I'm still trying to understand how it's a violation for schools to pay players to come to their school, but those same fans can give money to an outside organization (NIL) that can do it under the guise of not actually paying them to attend their school, but for some other reason. Personally I was against the whole paying players prospect for this very reason= we get into bidding wars with other schools,/ our success from this day forward is dependent on how much fans are willing to contribute to pay for players ( although we can't call it paying for players). Everything that has happened in the last 2 years with the portal changes/players jumping ship, /the NIL just reeks.

 

[Dadof2Vols]

The NCAA is saying since there were so many different state laws we made NIL rules and every school agreed to that rule. So if any school violates those rules we can come after them no matter state law. Tennessee is saying the rules were different every month the NCAA made them up as they went along so there was no way to comply because we didn't know what to comply to. Tennessee is now saying since we didn't know what to comply to then state law should be the way we operate. We'll go to court and see what a judge thinks.

The only way Tennessee could lose is if a judge said the NCAA rule invalidated state law. That would be one of the most biased decisions in history. So if he rules that state law prevails then there are no violations. This clearly puts the NCAA on very shaky ground as the constant rule changes were hard for any school to follow and they will go to court with the claim that they have more power than the laws of the state Tennessee. I don't know if the NCAA is willing to take it to court, but it would be either their return to power or their demise depending on the ruling. I would think their ability to win would be very very low to nothing.

As far as NIco he was allowed to sign with whomever he wanted to in high school because of California state law. Once signed he could take full advantage of anything the collective wanted to give him whether that be trips on planes or a brand new car etc. The NCAA is again saying all schools agreed to ignore state laws and let us make the rules we go by. So again welcome to court and again state laws versus NCAA rules.

I think UT is also saying the rules they are considered to violate were passed by a 23 member emergency vote and according to the bylaws would not even be valid ANYWAY even if they weren’t trying to retroactively implement them,

 

[DaddyChad]

Maybe some of us haven't invested enough time into the whole process of the NIL to understand how it all works. I'm still trying to understand how it's a violation for schools to pay players to come to their school, but those same fans can give money to an outside organization (NIL) that can do it under the guise of not actually paying them to attend their school, but for some other reason. Personally I was against the whole paying players prospect for this very reason= we get into bidding wars with other schools,/ our success from this day forward is dependent on how much fans are willing to contribute to pay for players ( although we can't call it paying for players). Everything that has happened in the last 2 years with the portal changes/players jumping ship, /the NIL just reeks.

If you’re confused you’re in good company. Most of the athletic departments in the country didn’t understand what they could and couldn’t do. Even the ncaa didn’t understand what rules they needed in place. They’re trying to rename collectives into boosters to suit their purposes now. The whole thing is absolutely (to take plowman’s words) intellectually dishonest

 

[Dadof2Vols]

If you’re confused you’re in good company. Most of the athletic departments in the country didn’t understand what they could and couldn’t do. Even the ncaa didn’t understand what rules they needed in place. They’re trying to rename collectives into boosters to suit their purposes now. The whole thing is absolutely (to take plowman’s words) intellectually dishonest

Should have just said dishonest because I think the intellect left Indy a long time ago. Definitely no common sense there.

 

[Fatman Photos]

Hard to donate when you are on a fixed income

 

[Voltopia]

Gotta love the constant harassment about donating one's hard earned money to support a sport that continually disfigures and casts aside its traditions and legacy for the sake of TV money. The BCS, the CFP, the bloated conferences, the spiraling prices, the transfer portal, the complete corporatization of the entire college football experience - the owners of the sport can ruin it however they like to make another dollar, and you're expected to sit there, shut up, and donate even more money.

And when the weight of all this commercialization blows up college football, turning into the professional sport so many want it to be, and there's no money to pay for the other sports, and they carve up all that TV money and take it from the schools - the same people will be back and beg everyone for even MORE money.

 

[Grudenator]

My biggest thing about donating is I want to see where ALL proceeds go. They are called collectors for a reason. It’s just like an investment portfolio, essentially the way NIL is right now is banking on small cap stocks. If I can see where the money actually goes, I’ll donate generously.

 

[overseasorange2]

Unfortunately this is correct. Even moreso families want a “safe” pick as well if the money is close. Unfortunately this puts Tennessee in a tough spot either way. We’ll win in court if it goes there but it’s going to hurt us some in recruiting. Just really no other way to put it.

Exactly...No way is this not going to hurt us in recruiting, if it hasn't already. That is the sad thing, innocent or not, we lose just from the accusation.

 

[Sudden Impact]

The best thing the NCAA could do on this is back down and go back to saying follow state law. To bad for the schools that don't have the right state laws they need to get with their Governor and Reps and get them passed.

I don't think they are going to be able to back down at this point without a follow-up lawsuit.

 

[Volfan2012]

I don't think they are going to be able to back down at this point without a follow-up lawsuit.

No they are not that bright. I figure at this point they have to hope the Attorney Generals are successful as it squashes their case without anything else happening.

 

[jp1]

You have the right to what ever opinion you want. I can respect your argument, but what about the tax money that is collected already from most of those people that live in TN that goes to the University? Do those scholarship players not already receive anywhere from $35,000 to $50,000 in tuition, room and board, etc. from those people when they accept their scholarship every year? In 2022, the Tennessee General Assembly earmarked $217 million for the University of Tennessee in the budget. There were 36,304 students enrolled in the fall of this year. If that money was equally divided that's just under $6,000 per student. That's not how it's distributed though. The kid busting his/her but in the classroom learning how to design and/or maintain infrastructure items such as the Henley Bridge you drive across to get to the game on Saturday is struggling to stay in school because of the rising cost of tuition. Meanwhile, the dude that can't hardly write his own name or speak coherently is getting paid tens of thousands of dollars a year on top of the FREE tuition, room and board, and perks because he can run really fast, bench press a lot of weight, and provides you entertainment on Saturday in the fall. But hey....championships, right? We desperately need those trophies and bragging rights. I would guess that most individuals look at this situation and have the mindset that these kids get enough of their hard earned money already. Look up the numbers of individuals, not only in TN, but in the U.S, that live paycheck to paycheck. The phrase 'a fool and his money are easily parted' has never been more true than in todays society. So yes, $5 per month is indeed a big deal for more individuals than you think.

The athletic budget is separate. Your tax money is not going to athletic scholarships.

 

[Sudden Impact]

No they are not that bright. I figure at this point they have to hope the Attorney Generals are successful as it squashes their case without anything else happening.

But that would not stop the NCAA's investigation, would it? Plus, Tennessee needs to go on the Offense if this happens and sue the NCAA for defamation. Make the NCAA prove what they think they had which should prove that their needs to be a rechartering of the NCAA's future in regards to Colleges and Athletics.

 

[Sudden Impact]

Exactly...No way is this not going to hurt us in recruiting, if it hasn't already. That is the sad thing, innocent or not, we lose just from the accusation.

Only Speculation and we are going to the mat on this. So it may not hurt at all. Social media and negative recruiting works both ways in this day and age.
A potential student athlete can see that the school recruiting him/her maybe the next on the list.
I believe that what Tennessee and Virginia have done are positive for recruiting. I also believe that others will join. A lot of eggs to fry.

 

[Gandalf]

Doesn’t seem like we have enough fans that care about TN sports for that to happen. The overall support this fan base has shown towards NIL has been pathetic.

Look, I normally am on the same side you are and I just smacked @turbovol for his silly post in the other thread for the other extreme. I am all for giving to UT and to Spyre too for that matter, since like you say it is now where you can be a booster with only $5 a month. Gives you some extra insights and feels good to support our team.

But don't go full reTurd here. People shouldn't be shamed because they are fans but don't give. You are not a televangelist, please don't act like one.

 

[Volfan2012]

But that would not stop the NCAA's investigation, would it? Plus, Tennessee needs to go on the Offense if this happens and sue the NCAA for defamation. Make the NCAA prove what they think they had which should prove that their needs to be a rechartering of the NCAA's future in regards to Colleges and Athletics.

It demolishes the NIL rules they are trying to enforce don't know if they are saying there are other recruiting violations not related to NIL.

 

[Woodlawn VOL]

The NCAA basically hid when NIL came aboard, they didn’t make any rules. All news was this is the wild Wild West, the media was saying the NCAA sits quietly and does nothing. Now they want to come back and say they had rules, that is rich horse hockey. Once the government told them they could not stop NIL they went silent. How can the NCAA point at anyone in this. Oh this is going to court, unless the NCAA totally backs down and at this point I am not sure it matters. They would have to back down and put in writing this Tennessee witch hunt is over and they start trying to make clear rules that work with NIL and not try to put it under the NCAA box. Focus on players making their grades and tend to matters you can fairly handle. Nothing short of that prevents this from court. GBO

 

[Sudden Impact]

It demolishes the NIL rules they are trying to enforce don't know if they are saying there are other recruiting violations not related to NIL.

I wondered the same thing. Here is my speculation,
1- Danny White runs a tight ship.
2- We just move beyond the Pruitt thing with the NCAA so a wash rinse and repeat would be highly unlikely.
3- NIL caught the NCAA off guard and they were not prepared for it.
4- NCAA lost their first lawsuit @ SCOTUS, could not get Congress to address it.
5- NCAA vs State Law with no published guidance from the NCAA.
6- Did the NCAA try to grandfather a new policy into Tennessee's recruitment of NICO.
7- The NCAA has run out options so Tennessee was the best Alternative they had get control of it.
8- Tennessee pushed back into their face and the NCAA did not anticipate this happening. By doing so, I believe that the program is clean of violations and that is the reason for their responses. It was like you are coming at us, game on not to cover up but to put the NCAA in its place.
9- State law will trump the NCAA. The NCAA currently has 6 lawsuits against it regarding NIL. It had to do something and felt like Tennessee was the best whipping boy.
10- The NCAA is an administrative agency and has taking upon itself to overextend it governing authority.
11- The NCAA cannot afford for Discovery to come out in the open as it will prove how incompetent and bias the organization really is towards other schools.

There is more, but that is just the start. The responses from the Tennessee Staff told me everything I need to know.