LG1's super-realistic and reasonable solution to illegal immigration and earned citizenship

#1

lawgator1

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#1
It is estimated that approximately 400,000 persons enter the US illegally every year, the vast majority via the Southern border. We seem to be at loggerheads on it, on a partisan basis. GOPers say they oppose it due to crime and national border integrity. Dems counter that real motivation is racism. Dems are soft on immigration, they say based on compassion and that its not a serious problem. GOP counters that its because immigrants support Dems in political races.

No way out of this political traffic jam because both sides are benefitting from the continued existence of the issue -- both parties want to keep the controversy alive.

Let's assume there is a grain of truth to all of that criticism agaisnt and by both sides. How about this solution:

1) Strict enforcement at the border. You enter illegally, you are sent back. Zero tolerance for illegal entry.
2) A certain number of persons, to be determined every year by Congress with input from U.S. Bureau of Labor as to US labor needs, is allowed to obtain an immigration visa. Persons convicted of serious drug crimes or crimes of violence in their home countries may not apply for five years after the conviction or sentence ends, whichever is last.
3) A national network is established and businesses or persons can agree to hire persons on these visas at 70 % of the minimum wage in that jurisdiction. However, enrollment in ACA or its equivalent must be made and paid for by the employer. The immigrant on the visa is ineligible for public assistance for the first 2 years they are here. Employers are incentivized with tax breaks to assist with housing. The immigrant visa-holder pays a flat rate of 15 % in federal income tax. No deductions, etc.
4) Persons here on the immigrant visas are incentivized to go to school to learn English, a trade skill, or a legitimate path to higher education. Not forced, but rewarded.
5) Persons here on immigrant visas are on probation for first 3 years. No right to vote. Any conviction for a felony or drug or crime of violence results in expulsion and may not reapply for an immigrant visa for ten years.
6) After the three years, the immigrant is awarded conditional citizenship. Full rights otherwise, but there is still one condition to that, which is no criminal activity, as above. The real difference is that the visa-holding immigrant can seek work outside of the parameters of the above.
7) At the end of the full 6 year period, if all conditions met, the immigrant has earned full citizenship.
8) Generally no minors allowed to accompany adults using the immigrant visa process as a matter of course. There may be conditional exceptions made, but will be based on there being family or others here willing to assume financial responsibility for the minor.
9) In the event there are more applicants for visas in a given year than available visas based on the number set by Congress, then a lottery is held. Those not awarded a visa in that process go to the top of the list for next year.


The goal of this process is to end or severely reduce illegal immigration while creating a mechanism whereby U.S. business can unashamedly hire otherwise illegal folks at a reduced rate but give them a means to integrate and become productive contributors to society. Sort of a stepping stone to a legal future, but one that must be earned. The US benefits, they benefit, there is a cap in place to the process which is correlated to US labor needs.

Now,


tenor.gif
 
#2
#2
Pretty similar to the George W Bush plan.

I'd sub the immigrant visa for guest worker or supplement (reduce immigrant visas that earn citizenship and bolster with guest worker).

As you note, it all begins with true border security and that has been a non-starter with Dems for a couple decades now.
 
#3
#3
Pretty similar to the George W Bush plan.

I'd sub the immigrant visa for guest worker or supplement (reduce immigrant visas that earn citizenship and bolster with guest worker).

As you note, it all begins with true border security and that has been a non-starter with Dems for a couple decades now.
Reagan got suckered
 
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#4
#4
Pretty similar to the George W Bush plan.

I'd sub the immigrant visa for guest worker or supplement (reduce immigrant visas that earn citizenship and bolster with guest worker).

As you note, it all begins with true border security and that has been a non-starter with Dems for a couple decades now.
I thought the same about the W plan

I would say if there's real enforcement on employment the strain on the border drops to a manageable level. If there are no jobs then desire to cross goes way down
 
#5
#5
I thought the same about the W plan

I would say if there's real enforcement on employment the strain on the border drops to a manageable level. If there are no jobs then desire to cross goes way down

but realistically we need migrant workers or robots; Americans aren't doing some of those jobs. with a guest worker program you can allow migrant workers to move back and forth and provide a better life for themselves and family in their home country
 
#6
#6
3) A national network is established and businesses or persons can agree to hire persons on these visas at 70 % of the minimum wage in that jurisdiction. However, enrollment in ACA or its equivalent must be made and paid for by the employer. The immigrant on the visa is ineligible for public assistance for the first 2 years they are here. Employers are incentivized with tax breaks to assist with housing. The immigrant visa-holder pays a flat rate of 15 % in federal income tax. No deductions, etc.
What about seasonal employers?
 
#7
#7
It is estimated that approximately 400,000 persons enter the US illegally every year, the vast majority via the Southern border. We seem to be at loggerheads on it, on a partisan basis. GOPers say they oppose it due to crime and national border integrity. Dems counter that real motivation is racism. Dems are soft on immigration, they say based on compassion and that its not a serious problem. GOP counters that its because immigrants support Dems in political races.

No way out of this political traffic jam because both sides are benefitting from the continued existence of the issue -- both parties want to keep the controversy alive.

Let's assume there is a grain of truth to all of that criticism agaisnt and by both sides. How about this solution:

1) Strict enforcement at the border. You enter illegally, you are sent back. Zero tolerance for illegal entry.
2) A certain number of persons, to be determined every year by Congress with input from U.S. Bureau of Labor as to US labor needs, is allowed to obtain an immigration visa. Persons convicted of serious drug crimes or crimes of violence in their home countries may not apply for five years after the conviction or sentence ends, whichever is last.
3) A national network is established and businesses or persons can agree to hire persons on these visas at 70 % of the minimum wage in that jurisdiction. However, enrollment in ACA or its equivalent must be made and paid for by the employer. The immigrant on the visa is ineligible for public assistance for the first 2 years they are here. Employers are incentivized with tax breaks to assist with housing. The immigrant visa-holder pays a flat rate of 15 % in federal income tax. No deductions, etc.
4) Persons here on the immigrant visas are incentivized to go to school to learn English, a trade skill, or a legitimate path to higher education. Not forced, but rewarded.
5) Persons here on immigrant visas are on probation for first 3 years. No right to vote. Any conviction for a felony or drug or crime of violence results in expulsion and may not reapply for an immigrant visa for ten years.
6) After the three years, the immigrant is awarded conditional citizenship. Full rights otherwise, but there is still one condition to that, which is no criminal activity, as above. The real difference is that the visa-holding immigrant can seek work outside of the parameters of the above.
7) At the end of the full 6 year period, if all conditions met, the immigrant has earned full citizenship.
8) Generally no minors allowed to accompany adults using the immigrant visa process as a matter of course. There may be conditional exceptions made, but will be based on there being family or others here willing to assume financial responsibility for the minor.
9) In the event there are more applicants for visas in a given year than available visas based on the number set by Congress, then a lottery is held. Those not awarded a visa in that process go to the top of the list for next year.


The goal of this process is to end or severely reduce illegal immigration while creating a mechanism whereby U.S. business can unashamedly hire otherwise illegal folks at a reduced rate but give them a means to integrate and become productive contributors to society. Sort of a stepping stone to a legal future, but one that must be earned. The US benefits, they benefit, there is a cap in place to the process which is correlated to US labor needs.

Now,


tenor.gif
6 is not needed. If they are on a legal visa there is a process to become a citizen

7 same as 6 use the existing process

8 is punitive. Why force separation from their children?

9 is moot. There are always going to be more applicants than visas for the work they will be “recruited for” as others have said our lazy ass citizens aren’t interested.

Also - make eVerify mandatory and enforce the penalties. Again as others have said stop hiring illegals and illegals stop coming.

Minors (Dreamers) whom have been here their entire life get expedited citizenship. I don’t know what that means yet. Their illegal residency parents are not rewarded for breaking the law, they go int the system being pitched and receive no lift from their Dreamer children.
 
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#8
#8
Pretty similar to the George W Bush plan.

I'd sub the immigrant visa for guest worker or supplement (reduce immigrant visas that earn citizenship and bolster with guest worker).

As you note, it all begins with true border security and that has been a non-starter with Dems for a couple decades now.


That "begins with" thinking is part of the problem. It needs to be done in one fell swoop, otherwise the other side won't budge. Same goes for Dems, by the way. They can't expect to get the okay on earned citizenship from GOP unless they also agree to enforce border security at the same time.
 
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#9
#9
but realistically we need migrant workers or robots; Americans aren't doing some of those jobs. with a guest worker program you can allow migrant workers to move back and forth and provide a better life for themselves and family in their home country
Oh I'm absolutely for a guest worker program. Many of the ones I saw in AZ in construction still had their family in Mexico and went back when they could but it was a hassle. If the ability to work legally and cross back quickly existed I'm sure it would be preferred
 
#10
#10
Pretty sure the Visa number is already around a million, for all nations. FWIW. Further I think the demand is 2 or 3 times that. Plus however many illegals dont bother. And not all illegals come from south of the border, before someone gets ticked off.

LG, does this apply to all borders/immigrants or just at the southern border? I know central/south american make up the majority of applicants, but there is still a significant number of other Visa applicants.

My questions are:
how do you track them? My understanding is that most "illegals" started out legal, and then just out stayed their time.

Also this doesnt address any anchor babies. If they are here for three to six years many are going to have children in that time. How do you address that?

Overall a pretty good stab that does seem to address both sides.
 
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#11
#11
How do we track down/punish American go betweens?

Sanderson Farms in Mississippi was the site of a large raid in 2018 that netted a significant number of people who believed they were legal. They had been recruited by a go between and brought directly from the border believing that their paperwork was being processed and managed by a single individual. Sanderson Farms gainfully employed these workers, some for several years.

After the raid, these workers were processed and sent back to central and south America. Sanderson Farms disavowed any knowledge of a go between and was only slapped with a small fine.

If companies are going to continue to pull this crap, why not have more stringent and painful penalties for them as well?
 
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#12
#12
I also offered a probationary, conditional, and full citizenship tiered system a few years ago. I think it is a good approach.

I disagree with federal tax of people who cannot vote in federal elections.

Also, prefer to see the immigrant pay a fee for the privilege of immigrating. Whatever the average amount paid to coyotes to smuggle them across is a starting point.

Lastly want to see the immigrant be sponsored (bonded) by another citizen as they move from probationary to full citizenship.
 
#13
#13
I also offered a probationary, conditional, and full citizenship tiered system a few years ago. I think it is a good approach.

I disagree with federal tax of people who cannot vote in federal elections.

Also, prefer to see the immigrant pay a fee for the privilege of immigrating. Whatever the average amount paid to coyotes to smuggle them across is a starting point.

Lastly want to see the immigrant be sponsored (bonded) by another citizen as they move from probationary to full citizenship.

Sounds like what my friends who emigrated to Australia had to do.
 
#16
#16
It is estimated that approximately 400,000 persons enter the US illegally every year, the vast majority via the Southern border. We seem to be at loggerheads on it, on a partisan basis. GOPers say they oppose it due to crime and national border integrity. Dems counter that real motivation is racism. Dems are soft on immigration, they say based on compassion and that its not a serious problem. GOP counters that its because immigrants support Dems in political races.

No way out of this political traffic jam because both sides are benefitting from the continued existence of the issue -- both parties want to keep the controversy alive.

Let's assume there is a grain of truth to all of that criticism agaisnt and by both sides. How about this solution:

1) Strict enforcement at the border. You enter illegally, you are sent back. Zero tolerance for illegal entry.
2) A certain number of persons, to be determined every year by Congress with input from U.S. Bureau of Labor as to US labor needs, is allowed to obtain an immigration visa. Persons convicted of serious drug crimes or crimes of violence in their home countries may not apply for five years after the conviction or sentence ends, whichever is last.
3) A national network is established and businesses or persons can agree to hire persons on these visas at 70 % of the minimum wage in that jurisdiction. However, enrollment in ACA or its equivalent must be made and paid for by the employer. The immigrant on the visa is ineligible for public assistance for the first 2 years they are here. Employers are incentivized with tax breaks to assist with housing. The immigrant visa-holder pays a flat rate of 15 % in federal income tax. No deductions, etc.
4) Persons here on the immigrant visas are incentivized to go to school to learn English, a trade skill, or a legitimate path to higher education. Not forced, but rewarded.
5) Persons here on immigrant visas are on probation for first 3 years. No right to vote. Any conviction for a felony or drug or crime of violence results in expulsion and may not reapply for an immigrant visa for ten years.
6) After the three years, the immigrant is awarded conditional citizenship. Full rights otherwise, but there is still one condition to that, which is no criminal activity, as above. The real difference is that the visa-holding immigrant can seek work outside of the parameters of the above.
7) At the end of the full 6 year period, if all conditions met, the immigrant has earned full citizenship.
8) Generally no minors allowed to accompany adults using the immigrant visa process as a matter of course. There may be conditional exceptions made, but will be based on there being family or others here willing to assume financial responsibility for the minor.
9) In the event there are more applicants for visas in a given year than available visas based on the number set by Congress, then a lottery is held. Those not awarded a visa in that process go to the top of the list for next year.


The goal of this process is to end or severely reduce illegal immigration while creating a mechanism whereby U.S. business can unashamedly hire otherwise illegal folks at a reduced rate but give them a means to integrate and become productive contributors to society. Sort of a stepping stone to a legal future, but one that must be earned. The US benefits, they benefit, there is a cap in place to the process which is correlated to US labor needs.

Now,


tenor.gif


Overall this looks like a pretty good plan LG. Very well thought out and a good solution for everybody. Probably the only drawback is it fixes way to many problems which means something like this will never happen.
 
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#18
#18
7) At the end of the full 6 year period, if all conditions met, the immigrant has earned full citizenship.
8) Generally no minors allowed to accompany adults using the immigrant visa process as a matter of course. There may be conditional exceptions made, but will be based on there being family or others here willing to assume financial responsibility for the minor.
9) In the event there are more applicants for visas in a given year than available visas based on the number set by Congress, then a lottery is held. Those not awarded a visa in that process go to the top of the list for next year.

1) Strict enforcement at the border. You enter illegally, you are sent back. Zero tolerance for illegal entry.

Agreed

2) A certain number of persons, to be determined every year by Congress with input from U.S. Bureau of Labor as to US labor needs, is allowed to obtain an immigration visa. Persons convicted of serious drug crimes or crimes of violence in their home countries may not apply for five years after the conviction or sentence ends, whichever is last.

How about forever for those convicted of violent crimes?

4) Persons here on the immigrant visas are incentivized to go to school to learn English, a trade skill, or a legitimate path to higher education. Not forced, but rewarded.

Rewarded how? Who pays? And why should an immigrant be rewarded for doing what they should do and not a citizen?


3) A national network is established and businesses or persons can agree to hire persons on these visas at 70 % of the minimum wage in that jurisdiction. However, enrollment in ACA or its equivalent must be made and paid for by the employer. The immigrant on the visa is ineligible for public assistance for the first 2 years they are here. Employers are incentivized with tax breaks to assist with housing. The immigrant visa-holder pays a flat rate of 15 % in federal income tax. No deductions, etc.

I would 100% oppose setting a lower minimum wage for these people (I would rather see the MW done away with all together) that would encourage US employers to shun citizens in favor of immigrants. Also 100% oppose mandatory employer provided benefits which is all your proposal is doing. Also they nor the employer should receive any tax incentives.

5) Persons here on immigrant visas are on probation for first 3 years. No right to vote. Any conviction for a felony or drug or crime of violence results in expulsion and may not reapply for an immigrant visa for ten years.

They can't vote now so this isn't a change. Why would we let someone expelled ever reapply? They blew their chance.

6) After the three years, the immigrant is awarded conditional citizenship. Full rights otherwise, but there is still one condition to that, which is no criminal activity, as above. The real difference is that the visa-holding immigrant can seek work outside of the parameters of the above.

Why change citizenship from 7 to 3 years?

No to 7

Absolutely no minors.

9 is ridiculous.
 
#21
#21
Sounds like what my friends who emigrated to Australia had to do.

Have friends in Australia that have been trying to immigrate and move their business here for 5 years (maybe longer). It's a PITA to do it legally.
 
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#24
#24
That "begins with" thinking is part of the problem. It needs to be done in one fell swoop, otherwise the other side won't budge. Same goes for Dems, by the way. They can't expect to get the okay on earned citizenship from GOP unless they also agree to enforce border security at the same time.

It didn't work in the past to do "one fell swoop" - it's why the W plan failed.
 

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