Lockwood Needs to Teach Graves...

[Amb3096]

If Kamiko was able to get drafted, make a roster, and get minutes, there's no reason Meighan can't either.

Kamiko was a better pro prospect, even if Meighan was a much better college player. Kamiko is a big, athletic guard that can rebound, consistently plays excellent defense, has a reliable jump shot, and can attack the basket. Meighan is below Kamiko in all of these attributes, except for the jumper.

 

[clkou]

If all that were true, I think Kamiko would have put up more "Meighan like" numbers in college. If she's drafted in the first round as she is projected, I'd be pretty surprised if she didn't spend at least a year getting considerable minutes based on just the investment and learning prospect alone. I'm not going to go out on a limb and predict she'll be a star, but I do predict she'll get drafted, get a spot, and play.

All the anti-Meighan talk is boder-line delusional. It's like some of you think if you type the words out, it will suddenly make her a bad player. No matter what any of you say, she's a top 5 all-time scorer, one of the Lady Vol all-time greats, AND will play at the next level if she chooses to.

 

[Amb3096]

If all that were true, I think Kamiko would have put up more "Meighan like" numbers in college. If she's drafted in the first round as she is projected, I'd be pretty surprised if she didn't spend at least a year getting considerable minutes based on just the investment and learning prospect alone. I'm not going to go out on a limb and predict she'll be a star, but I do predict she'll get drafted, get a spot, and play.

All the anti-Meighan talk is boder-line delusional. It's like some of you think if you type the words out, it will suddenly make her a bad player. No matter what any of you say, she's a top 5 all-time scorer, one of the Lady Vol all-time greats, AND will play at the next level if she chooses to.

WNBA waives first round draft picks all the time. The % from each class that is drafted and makes a roster is really small. Unless you're one of the mega stars of your class, you will have it tough.

I don't see how saying Meighan is an unlikely WNBA prospect is "anti-Meighan". I loved Taber Spani, but knew she wasn't going anywhere. It's a fact of life that being a college star doesn't mean you're going to the pros, and you probably have teammates who were less impact players in college but scouts view as a better pro prospect.

 

[clkou]

My guess is that if you look at all the players who fit Meighan's profile of a successful star player at a high profile program, that MOST of them at least got drafted, got a roster spot, and got some minutes. So, when you question whether she will get a roster spot, and then double down on that belief when I cite an inferior teammate from just last year who got drafted/spot/minutes, it's clearly anti-Meighan in my book.

It's one thing to go out on a limb and predict a border line player will have success. It's another to predict a star player will not live up to expectations, which is exactly what such a comment was designed for: negativity and being against a player.

 

[Volfan2012]

The last mock draft I saw Simmons was the first round headed for LA.

 

[Convoluted]

If all that were true, I think Kamiko would have put up more "Meighan like" numbers in college. If she's drafted in the first round as she is projected, I'd be pretty surprised if she didn't spend at least a year getting considerable minutes based on just the investment and learning prospect alone. I'm not going to go out on a limb and predict she'll be a star, but I do predict she'll get drafted, get a spot, and play.

All the anti-Meighan talk is boder-line delusional. It's like some of you think if you type the words out, it will suddenly make her a bad player. No matter what any of you say, she's a top 5 all-time scorer, one of the Lady Vol all-time greats, AND will play at the next level if she chooses to.

No one can argue that she's not a top 5 all time scorer at Tennessee. If the WNBA was populated only with Tennessee players, she would have a good chance.

Being known as a volume shooter is often code for not so good a shooter. Scoring lots of points doesn't factor in shooting percentage or ability to consistently perform, particularly in clutch situations.

The criticism of Simmons is not anti Meighan, it's just a realistic assessment. She has too many weak points to be considered a good WNBA prospect. To list a few: Not a WNBA body. Not a smart player. Not good on defense. Too many turnovers. Very few assists.

Unfortunately, UT is very good at controlling the press. Rarely will any honest criticism be aired by the press. Note the items that are posted here. Slick and all produced by UT. This gives UT fans an unrealistic assessment of the team and players. Brainwashed.

I'll be shocked if she makes a WNBA squad.

 

[Amb3096]

My guess is that if you look at all the players who fit Meighan's profile of a successful star player at a high profile program, that MOST of them at least got drafted, got a roster spot, and got some minutes. So, when you question whether she will get a roster spot, and then double down on that belief when I cite an inferior teammate from just last year who got drafted/spot/minutes, it's clearly anti-Meighan in my book.

It's one thing to go out on a limb and predict a border line player will have success. It's another to predict a star player will not live up to expectations, which is exactly what such a comment was designed for: negativity and being against a player.

Again...college careers are not a barometer for professional success, and the ones that do continue to be successful are the elite players. Simmons does not fall into that category. She is a very good college player, but she is not an elite player. You're acting like she is comparable to Parker or Moore. She's not; she is more along the lines of Natalie Novosel...and even that's a generous comparison because Natalie was consistently better than Simmons was as a college player.

Apparently, your definition of a hater is someone that does not overlook the flaws on Simmons game. Maybe I should say that she should be NPOY and the #1 draft pick? Perhaps that will make you feel better?

 

[Slydell]

I think Simmons averages for her career are shooting 42.2% from the field, 35.9% from the three-point line and 81.0% from the free throw stripe. Not shabby.

 

[Weezer]

wth? Did I just step into the Geno ass-kissing forum of VN? I feel like I just stumbled in on a Tijuana Donkey Show, only I'm not getting any enjoyment out of this.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

How to catch and shoot the ball in almost one motion. Every time she catches a pass or grabs a rebound, she brings the ball down to waist level, bends over and THEN tries to go up and shoot. It's like she needs to gather herself before shooting. No good. She is wasting time and wasting movement--and giving the defense time to recover. And then she tenses up and fights the shot and misses another 3-foot shot. She's painful to watch. Where has Lockwood been with this kid?

If you catch the ball head high, extend your arms and shoot the freakin' ball. Get rid of it! Quick release, soft touch. Lockwood should watch some tapes of Bernard King--UT's best-ever player--and then show them to Graves (and everybody else). King was an absolute master of the quick release, soft touch: no wasted motion, no wasted time. He'd catch the ball and an instant later it was bouncing gently off the glass and through the hoop. Graves doesn't have the King touch, but at least she can work on a quick, one-motion release. Keep your arms (and the ball) up. Don't bring the ball down, because then you have to bring it up again to shoot--and by then you've lost the easy opportunity. In the 1.5+ seconds you wasted bringing the ball down, defenders have recovered and now you have a more difficult shot. Clang. It's basketball 101. Don't go from high to low to high again. Graves has finished two full years at UT and apparently has not been taught, or learned, this fundamental lesson. This is a big reason why she can't make three-foot shots.

And Simmons? 4-15. The less said, the better. She's back in her low IQ street mode. What are the odds she'll play a high IQ game and shoot well when we really need her against a big dog? Uh, L-O-W.

He or someone needs to teach all the bigs how to make lay ups. We lose 12-20 points/game with missed lay ups.

 

[clkou]

Again...college careers are not a barometer for professional success, and the ones that do continue to be successful are the elite players. Simmons does not fall into that category. She is a very good college player, but she is not an elite player. You're acting like she is comparable to Parker or Moore. She's not; she is more along the lines of Natalie Novosel...and even that's a generous comparison because Natalie was consistently better than Simmons was as a college player.

Apparently, your definition of a hater is someone that does not overlook the flaws on Simmons game. Maybe I should say that she should be NPOY and the #1 draft pick? Perhaps that will make you feel better?

Actually when it comes to college basketball both men and women actually ARE a good barometer. 100% accurate, no? But pretty darn good barometers. Very few players have decorated careers in college and don't get a pro roster spot and a chance for some minutes. All the top players typically get drafted, find a team, and play if not become top players there, too.

I did NOT act like she was comparable to Parker or Moore. I just said I thought she'd get drafted, find a team, and play. I even specifically said I would not go out on a limb and predict she would be a star. YOU, however, went out of your way to suggest she may not, if not PROBABLY would not, even get a roster spot, which IS a trollish thing to predict for a player who has had a decorated career as she has had.

 

[Amb3096]

YOU, however, went out of your way to suggest she may not, if not PROBABLY would not, even get a roster spot, which IS a trollish thing to predict for a player who has had a decorated career as she has had.

You act like she's been to multiple FF teams and a perpetual NPOY frontrunner. She's not. She's had a good career, but she has not been so exceptional that she should be a lock to make a team.

Tricia Liston from Duke is a better college player, and she's not likely to make a roster. Angie Bjorklund is the all time 3 point leader for Tennessee, but she couldn't stay on a roster.

You think it's trollish because you're inflating her career way above what it is. It would be one thing to say Parker wouldn't make a roster, but saying that someone like Simmons...a very good but not elite player...will probably not have a pro career is not far fetched. She's not even a first round lock, so why you're elevating her to sure thing status is beyond me.

 

[armchair]

Simmons will get drafted and play on a WNBA team, might even start, might even have some success. She has got quickness and ball-handling skills and is very good at getting her shot--and just about any shot is her shot. I love her passion, but she is not an elite player. She's far too erratic to be elite--and her basketball IQ is just not as high as it should be. She also got a very slight build that can work against her at times--especially on defense. I think one of the reasons why her shooting is sketchy is her funky release; the ball coming off the shooting hand should be spinning backward, which actually helps the ball go down the basket if it hits the side of the rim farthest away from the shooter (the back of the rim, essentially). Simmons has a weird sideways release, and that surely is one reason for her spotty shooting--though the biggest seems to be that she's too amped up all the time, plays too fast.

 

[clkou]

You act like she's been to multiple FF teams and a perpetual NPOY frontrunner. She's not. She's had a good career, but she has not been so exceptional that she should be a lock to make a team.

Tricia Liston from Duke is a better college player, and she's not likely to make a roster. Angie Bjorklund is the all time 3 point leader for Tennessee, but she couldn't stay on a roster.

You think it's trollish because you're inflating her career way above what it is. It would be one thing to say Parker wouldn't make a roster, but saying that someone like Simmons...a very good but not elite player...will probably not have a pro career is not far fetched. She's not even a first round lock, so why you're elevating her to sure thing status is beyond me.

If you can't see how Meighan is a distinct cut above Angie Bjorkland, Kamiko Williams (who IS playing in the WNBA), and Tricia Liston, then I cannot help you. For anyone else reading:

Meighan Simmons CAREER HONORS
- Associated Press SEC Player of the Year -- 2014
- Associated Press All-SEC First Team -- 2014
- Coaches All-SEC First Team -- 2014
- Naismith Trophy Midseason Top 30 -- 2013-14
- Junkanoo Jam All-Tournament MVP -- (11/29) 2013-14
- Junkanoo Jam All-Tournament Team -- (11/29) 2013-14
- Naismith Trophy Early Season Watch List -- 2013-14
- Wooden Award Preseason Top 30 -- 2013-14
- "Wade Watch" List -- 2013-14
- Media Preseason SEC Player of the Year -- 2013-14
- Media Preseason All-SEC First Team -- 2013-14
- Associated Press Third-Team All-American -- 2013
- Full Court Third-Team All-American -- 2013
- WBCA Honorable Mention All-American -- 2013
- WBCA All-Region 3 Nominee -- 2013
- Coaches SEC Co-Player of the Year -- 2013
- Coaches First-Team All-SEC -- 2013
- Associated Press First-Team All-SEC -- 2013
- State Farm Wade Trophy Finalist -- 2013
- Naismith College Player of Year Finalist -- 2013
- Wooden Player of the Year Finalist -- 2013
- espnW National Player of the Week -- 2012-13 (Dec. 3)
- SEC Player of the Week - 2012-13 (Dec. 3)
- Coaches Preseason All-SEC First Team -- 2012-13
- Media Preseason Second-Team All-SEC -- 2012-13
- Naismith Award Candidate -- 2011-12
- Preseason All-SEC First Team -- 2011-12
- Associated Press Honorable Mention All-American -- 2011
- Associated Press Second-Team All-SEC -- 2011
- Coaches Second Team All-SEC -- 2011
- Coaches SEC Freshman of the Year -- 2011
- Associated Press SEC Newcomer of the Year -- 2011
- Coaches SEC All-Freshman Team -- 2011
- Paradise Jam All-Tournament Team -- 2010
- SEC Freshman of the Week -- 2010-11 (Dec. 6, Dec. 20, Feb. 10)
- Naismith Award Top-30 Candidate -- 2010-11

... and 5th highest scorer all-time at the University of Tennessee.

And stop putting words in my mouth about her being Candace Parker. All I have stated and continue to state is:

#1 Someone with Meighan's resume should easily get drafted, get a roster spot, and get some playing time to prove herself.

#2 Anyone who goes out of their way to say otherwise on a fan board dedicated to that player's team is a troll.

I personally thought JJ Redick of Duke might not make it in the NBA, which actually went against what I've been saying, but I thought he was undersized, couldn't play defense well enough, and would have trouble getting his shot against NBA defense. #1 I was wrong. #2 I kept that thought mostly to myself. #3 I would have been a major troll had I gone to Duke message boards and said "whether JJ Reddick gets a roster spot is another story".

 

[Amb3096]

If you can't see how Meighan is a distinct cut above Angie Bjorkland, Kamiko Williams (who IS playing in the WNBA), and Tricia Liston, then I cannot help you. For anyone else reading:

I personally thought JJ Redick of Duke might not make it in the NBA, which actually went against what I've been saying, but I thought he was undersized, couldn't play defense well enough, and would have trouble getting his shot against NBA defense. #1 I was wrong. #2 I kept that thought mostly to myself. #3 I would have been a major troll had I gone to Duke message boards and said "whether JJ Reddick gets a roster spot is another story".

The list of Simmons above is long, and that's about it. What's her best honor? AP Third Team AA? Why are you comparing Simmons to Redick? JJ had multiple first team AA honors and NPOY awards. Simmons' career is not even close to that.

I welcome you to pull up Triston's numbers this year vs. Simmons, and you show me where Simmons is clearly better. If you think Simmons numbers are better, then you have orange glasses bolted to your eyes.

By the way, Taber Spani was a better college player than Kamiko Williams, but for some reason, Kamiko was drafted. Could it be that...I don't know...college stats and awards aren't the end-all be-all rule for draft day?

So where do you think Nia Moore will get drafted? She should be drafted ahead of Brianna Stewart, and if you say so otherwise on a fan board, you're nothing but a trolL!!!!! :nono:

 

[Slydell]

The list of Simmons above is long, and that's about it. What's her best honor? AP Third Team AA? Why are you comparing Simmons to Redick? JJ had multiple first team AA honors and NPOY awards. Simmons' career is not even close to that.

I welcome you to pull up Triston's numbers this year vs. Simmons, and you show me where Simmons is clearly better. If you think Simmons numbers are better, then you have orange glasses bolted to your eyes.

By the way, Taber Spani was a better college player than Kamiko Williams, but for some reason, Kamiko was drafted. Could it be that...I don't know...college stats and awards aren't the end-all be-all rule for draft day?

So where do you think Nia Moore will get drafted? She should be drafted ahead of Brianna Stewart, and if you say so otherwise on a fan board, you're nothing but a trolL!!!!! :nono:

Simmons credits were listed. Why don't you list Triston's credits or Redick's credits for comparison? I'd be honored to view them.:hi:

 

[Amb3096]

Simmons credits were listed. Why don't you list Triston's credits or Redick's credits for comparison? I'd be honored to view them.:hi:

You want to compare JJ Redick's collegiate accolades to Simmons? There's really no comparison.

2× Adolph Rupp Trophy (2005–2006)
AP National Player of the Year (2006)
John R. Wooden Player of the Year (2006)
NABC Player of the Year (2006)
Naismith College Player of the Year (2006)
Oscar Robertson Trophy (2006)
2× Consensus first team All-American (2005–2006)
2× ACC Player of the Year (2005–2006)
2× ACC Tournament MVP (2005–2006)
No. 4 retired by Duke
McDonald's All-American MVP (2002)

As for Liston, she's 1st team All-ACC, Duke's all time leader in 3 ptrs made, leads the nation in 3 pt shooting % this year (at least she did going into the Depaul game), and her stats are better all around than Simmons. She is also on the final list for Wooden Award finalists (which Simmons didn't make), so I'm clearly not the only one that thinks she's a better player. She has great basketball IQ and she's better than Simmons in every regard, except she's slow and looks kind of overweight, which is why I think her pro prospects are limited. If she had Simmons athleticism, she would be a NPOY candidate.

2013-14 comparison.
Liston:
17.2 ppg
52.5 FG%
48.1 3PT%
85.2 FT%
57 assists
183 rbs
20 steals

Simmons:
16.1 ppg
41.6 FG%
35.4 3PT%
82.6 FT%
79 assists
91 rbs
41 steals

Simmons with more assists and steals, and Liston is better across the board with everything else with Duke playing the toughest schedule in WCBB. Liston also had Alexis Jones and Chelsea Gray as primary ball handlers for the majority of the season, and she is less a playmaker and more a scorer.

 

[governmentmule]

wth? Did I just step into the Geno ass-kissing forum of VN? I feel like I just stumbled in on a Tijuana Donkey Show, only I'm not getting any enjoyment out of this.

you got that right Weezer,they should go to UConns site and give the rest of us Vols fan a freaking break

 

[Randmyman]

I would just like our bigs to have the confidence that no one can stop them it is like they are not mature enough I watched them get the ball and at times it was like the other team knew it was coming back out as fast as it went it. Girls keep the ball up go for it you are better than anyone guarding you take control. In watching the Lady Vols for 30 years the early years they had those type of girls they where afraid of nothing and went for it. Love My Lady Vols!!! You can be the best team/player on the court if you want it bad enough.

 

[governmentmule]

getting the ball into the paint has gotten to be a problem Randmyman,the other team is clogging the paint up,if there was some consistent 3 point shooting,they could open the paint up and get some easy points

i agree, once they get the ball inside,go to the basket,don't fool around and dribble or look to pass,go up and make a basket,what is the worst that can happen ? a blocked shot ? maybe,draw a foul ? probably,make an easy basket ? most likely

 

[Convoluted]

I would just like our bigs to have the confidence that no one can stop them it is like they are not mature enough I watched them get the ball and at times it was like the other team knew it was coming back out as fast as it went it. Girls keep the ball up go for it you are better than anyone guarding you take control. In watching the Lady Vols for 30 years the early years they had those type of girls they where afraid of nothing and went for it. Love My Lady Vols!!! You can be the best team/player on the court if you want it bad enough.

The confidence of past players came from actually being better than the opponents. Perhaps current bigs know they are not capable of doing what you suggest and passing out might be the best thing to do. Regarding being the best if you want it bad enough is a fallacy. I'm sure everyone wants to be great. Some are capable and some are not regardless of desire or effort.

 

[Amb3096]

getting the ball into the paint has gotten to be a problem Randmyman,the other team is clogging the paint up,if there was some consistent 3 point shooting,they could open the paint up and get some easy points

i agree, once they get the ball inside,go to the basket,don't fool around and dribble or look to pass,go up and make a basket,what is the worst that can happen ? a blocked shot ? maybe,draw a foul ? probably,make an easy basket ? most likely

Harrison looks like she knows exactly what to do when she catches the ball. It seems that the guards have to throw a perfect pass for Russell to snag it, so it always look like they are hesitant to pass to her. Graves gets too low under the basket, then tries to bail herself out by tossing the ball at the bottom of the backboard and hoping she gets a foul call. I've seen Graves shoot a 12-15 jump shooter a few times in the last couple of games, and the shoot looks great. If she can pull her defender out, she can get some easier points by driving to the basket instead of trying to establish position directly underneath all the time.

Russell in particular should be able to catch, turn and shoot in a fairly seamless sequence. She's tall, has long arms, and she's thick enough that she's got some mass that shouldn't be easy to move off the block. She needs to toughen up and be more assertive, because she's not imposing herself on the court.

 

[Amb3096]

The confidence of past players came from actually being better than the opponents. Perhaps current bigs know they are not capable of doing what you suggest and passing out might be the best thing to do. Regarding being the best if you want it bad enough is a fallacy. I'm sure everyone wants to be great. Some are capable and some are not regardless of desire or effort.

Nicky Anosike, anyone? She didn't have the skills, but she had effort. Same with Glory Johnson her first two years. You watch Stephanie Mavunga from UNC, and she's cut from the same cloth as Anosike. She hustles, and she's more effort than polish.

Graves needs to take a book from these girls and build the skills to go with her hustle.

 

[governmentmule]

i liked Anosike she had some hustle for sure

 

[gule]

the first few minutes of the ky/tn sec c game should show you why playing Graves as a go to offensive option is playing to lose! 5 out of 6 times she totally screwed the play up.