Lofton named to 2nd team AP All-American!!

#29
#29
justingroves said:
I see your point. But don't try and belittle something a UT player did.
Click to expand...


I initially congratulated him and pointed out the irony of an individual award in a team sport. Not the same as belittling. Minimize in the sense that I don't like the concept of the award, yes, but belittle no.
 
#30
#30
tidwell said:
What do you think?

Should we just not acknowledge a player for obtaining an honor such as this? :banghead2:

The Gators are a great "team". We get it. Are there no women's basketball threads for you to derail today or something?
Click to expand...

I am self-censoring myself on that topic for five more days.
 
#32
#32
lawgator1 said:
I initially congratulated him and pointed out the irony of an individual award in a team sport. Not the same as belittling. Minimize in the sense that I don't like the concept of the award, yes, but belittle no.
Click to expand...

Aw you're just jealous :p

Seriously I see the point you are trying to make, but without Lofton on the court, look at UT's record. Do you want your best players not striving to be the best in the nation? I highly doubt Lofton gets up and pats himself on the back for being an All American
 
#34
#34
BigPapaVol said:
I'm telling you that you're wrong. None of those players lived up to an All-American campaign, particularly Noah (who ironically is on the 2nd team ahead of Horford on the 3rd, which should tell you about the quality of the results in AA voting). Brewer and Green are the two most important players on the team and got no mention whatsoever, but neither had the team carrying type of year that the AAs did (save Oden). Brewer is the best of the bunch IMO because of his versatility and D, but statistically, just doesn't measure up to the other 2/3 men that made the AA list. Will he be drafted in front of them? Sure. Does that make him AA? He'll likely win more than most on the list. Does that make him an AA?
Click to expand...


The point is that the reason Noah, for example, is not considered first team is that he did not have to take over games to show how great he is, at the expense of the team concept.

Now don't get me wrong. Lofton did not assert himself in that way. To the contrary, he is unselfish. When you are surrounded by deep talent on a bball team, you tend not to shine as much as if you are a stand-out player on a second tier team.

I know how bad that sounds, but its the truth. If Lofton played for Florida, he'd not have to take on the same role he did take on for UT. See my point? Part of what makes him so spectacular in terms of production is necessity, and the irony is that the award recognizes that in a team sport. Which I maintain makes very little sense.
 
#35
#35
justingroves said:
Aw you're just jealous :p

Seriously I see the point you are trying to make, but without Lofton on the court, look at UT's record. Do you want your best players not striving to be the best in the nation? I highly doubt Lofton gets up and pats himself on the back for being an All American
Click to expand...


No, he doesn't. But he is recognized for being the shining star on a team that made him so because it otherwise did not have the same firepower as others and so, ironically, he is named to a team of individual stars in, ironically again, a team sport.
 
#36
#36
lawgator1 said:
The point is that the reason Noah, for example, is not considered first team is that he did not have to take over games to show how great he is, at the expense of the team concept.

Now don't get me wrong. Lofton did not assert himself in that way. To the contrary, he is unselfish. When you are surrounded by deep talent on a bball team, you tend not to shine as much as if you are a stand-out player on a second tier team.

I know how bad that sounds, but its the truth. If Lofton played for Florida, he'd not have to take on the same role he did take on for UT. See my point? Part of what makes him so spectacular in terms of production is necessity, and the irony is that the award recognizes that in a team sport. Which I maintain makes very little sense.
Click to expand...
C'mon with the garbage about Noah. He hasn't played very well this year and the team results would have been very similar without his contributions. If he could have taken over games, he would have, but he's not that type of ballplayer. AA is a very offense oriented award and he is nowhere near an AA caliber offensive player. If I were you, I'd be arguing for Green, Brewer and Horford, who are the real horses.

I'm not offended by the stuff about Lofton being a big fish in a small pond, but even great shooters couldn't have done what he did. He shoots better under duress than everyone else and that allows him to score even though he is THE man.
 
#37
#37
BigPapaVol said:
C'mon with the garbage about Noah. He hasn't played very well this year and the team results would have been very similar without his contributions. If he could have taken over games, he would have, but he's not that type of ballplayer. AA is a very offense oriented award and he is nowhere near an AA caliber offensive player. If I were you, I'd be arguing for Green, Brewer and Horford, who are the real horses.

I'm not offended by the stuff about Lofton being a big fish in a small pond, but even great shooters couldn't have done what he did. He shoots better under duress than everyone else and that allows him to score even though he is THE man.
Click to expand...

Its not that he didn't take over because he couldn't, its that he didn't take over because he did not need to. In fact, with this team, the whole notion of a particular player stepping up to take over in two or three consecutive games is rebuked.

If you focus on Horford and Noah, then Green and Humphrey beat you from the perimeter. If you guard the guards, then the big guys bludgeon you to death. The whole concept -- and what has made them successful as a team -- is not having to rely on a particular player to always be the go to guy.

With UT, it was Lofton. He is the franchise. With Florida, the franchise is the entire starting team, plus Chris Richards and Hodge.
 
#38
#38
lawgator1 said:
Its not that he didn't take over because he couldn't, its that he didn't take over because he did not need to. In fact, with this team, the whole notion of a particular player stepping up to take over in two or three consecutive games is rebuked.

If you focus on Horford and Noah, then Green and Humphrey beat you from the perimeter. If you guard the guards, then the big guys bludgeon you to death. The whole concept -- and what has made them successful as a team -- is not having to rely on a particular player to always be the go to guy.

With UT, it was Lofton. He is the franchise. With Florida, the franchise is the entire starting team, plus Chris Richards and Hodge.
Click to expand...
I suspect they wanted a step up in the Butler game and for a majority of the Oregon game, but it isn't there. His offense is atrocious. He's on the floor to defend and rebound, which he has done moderately in this tournament. Against Butler, hammering the paint was the clear plan, and Noah was about the 3rd option there. That ain't AA material.
 
#39
#39
lawgator1 said:
Similarly, if Chism or whoever fails to set a screen, is Lofton open for the 3 pointer?
Click to expand...

If Durant doesn't put a hand in his face 28 feet from the bucket, would he still drill the game-changing 3 in that game?

Obviously that's why Durant made 1st team.
 
#40
#40
lawgator1 said:
With UT, it was Lofton. He is the franchise. With Florida, the franchise is the entire starting team, plus Chris Richards and Hodge.
Click to expand...

Maybe the reason you're saying this is that Florida doesn't have any single player who can do all that Lofton can do offensively. That doesn't diminish what Tennessee's team can do.

Is Florida more balanced? Yes. Do they have the better team? Head-to-head would indicate they're pretty damn close.
 
#41
#41
lawgator1 said:
No, the honor is worth something. Winning the Heisman, for example, is a nice thing. I just am saying that in team sports there is something anathema about giving someone an individual honor. On its face, it makes no sense.
Click to expand...

Agreed about individual awards. They make me puke, unless my guy wins. But I still feel like those players shouldn't need the award to make them feel good about their performance. I'm sure Lofton is proud, but would he be any less proud had he not won?

The Heisman is a marketing ploy to make $$. And maybe it's fun for some old farts who still like to go to the Downtown Athletic Club and hob-nob. But at best it's an unnecessary distraction and at worst a disgrace to the ultimate team sport, and should be banned by true football fans.
 
#42
#42
wbarron said:
Maybe the reason you're saying this is that Florida doesn't have any single player who can do all that Lofton can do offensively. That doesn't diminish what Tennessee's team can do.

Is Florida more balanced? Yes. Do they have the better team? Head-to-head would indicate they're pretty damn close.
Click to expand...


Oh, please. If Lofton were at Florida, he'd have nowhere near the numbers he has with UT because he'd be blended in to a much more productive group of five every night, as opposed to the same one or two guys. I give Lofton credit for being a great player and stepping up, don't get me wrong.
 
#43
#43
lawgator1 said:
Oh, please. If Lofton were at Florida, he'd have nowhere near the numbers he has with UT because he'd be blended in to a much more productive group of five every night, as opposed to the same one or two guys. I give Lofton credit for being a great player and stepping up, don't get me wrong.
Click to expand...

I'm being honest - nothing to do with me being a UT fan. And I've posted several times about how much respect I have for the Gators.

Lofton has offensive skills that nobody on that team does. Humphrey can shoot as well (you could say better, esp. the set shot). Green can penetrate and dish as well (or better), Brewer's as tough in transition (or better), but nobody on that team has the complete package offensively that Lofton does.

I mean, did you watch how Lofton dismantled Memphis every which way?

The reason it's rare for Florida to have a guy who busts out for 30 pts in a game is mostly b/c they don't have anyone who can put up 30 pts in a game. And that's not dissing any of their players - 30 pt. games obviously are very, very tough to come by. If they did, they'd go to the hot hand over and over, not spread it out simply b/c that's good team b-ball.
 
#44
#44
lawgator1 said:
Oh, please. If Lofton were at Florida, he'd have nowhere near the numbers he has with UT because he'd be blended in to a much more productive group of five every night, as opposed to the same one or two guys. I give Lofton credit for being a great player and stepping up, don't get me wrong.
Click to expand...
Agreed, but Lofton is very unique in that he is uncanny in his ability to drill deep shots with people draped on him. He'd be the Humphries on the current UF squad. Humphries could not be the Lofton on the UT squad.
 
#45
#45
jakez4ut said:
how 'bout this........i'm very happy with what this TEAM has been able to accomplish in such a short amount of time, and this TEAM is something to be very proud of.

i never bashed you or anything, i just called you out on your "back handed compliment". if that ruffled your feathers, hate it for you.

what we don't need is some sanctimonious pompas gator fan holding a trophy in each hand coming in here and saying:
Wow, great honor indeed, but individual honors are stupid, in fact, i hate individual awards. the only ones that matter are TEAM awards--see we have two! but nice job anyway..wink, wink.

so enjoy your trophies, have fun in the final four.....
Click to expand...
:clap:
 
#46
#46
lawgator1 said:
First, congratulations to Lofton on a fine season and the honor.

Second, I am struck by the irony of naming a team of people when the honor is individual. Florida has no one on the first team, not IMO because no Gators are among the five best, but because Florida plays as a team. Week in and week out someone else rose to the fore and took over and propelled the team to wins. Because they played unselfishly, and therefore were more successful as a team, the individuals are penalized in the sense that they don't get the same individual attention others do.

The self-appointed experts who like Florida right now are almost all saying that its the fact that Florida plays as a team, with different guys able to beat you if you focus on certain others, that makes them so good. I hate individual honors in team sports.
Click to expand...
None of Florida's players are even close to being one of the five best players in the country.
 
#49
#49
hatvol96 said:
None of Florida's players are even close to being one of the five best players in the country.
Click to expand...

I would say this is a pretty pointless personal observation, especially when it is in perfect agreement with the post to which you are replying. The more relevant truth is that UF may not have one of the 5 best individual players in the country, but they do collectively have the 5 best players in the country at the moment. With that, no one can argue. Why say something perhaps true but unprovable when you can just say the thing that is truest. I guess it felt better to fling an arrow.
 
#50
#50
All Vol! said:
I would say this is a pretty pointless personal observation, especially when it is in perfect agreement with the post to which you are replying. The more relevant truth is that UF may not have one of the 5 best individual players in the country, but they do have the 5 best players in the country at the moment. With that, no one can argue. Why say something perhaps true but unprovable when you can just say something that's MORE true?
Click to expand...


To the extent I understand you, I agree. :crazy:
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top