LSU Postgame Report

[pimo1]

Look I’m making a simple fairly easy judgment about this guy. He isn’t an elite athlete and I don’t really see anyone saying I am wrong on that

And if that’s true I don’t see this guy being our primary PG if we are to get back to talking about SEC titles and final fours.
And with the talent this program has coming in next adding to a very experienced team we will have coming back we should be talking about those things


Sorry but that’s the only point I am trying to make.

You are being ridiculous. You're saying to be a PG one has to be an elite athlete? Name the last elite athlete we had at PG? Learn to not hyperbole so much. Bone wasn't, neither was Turner. I'm trying to remember the last elite athlete was had at PG.. or on the team period. How do you define elite athlete? Because I find myself curious as to your definition of the word. Bone was very good and fast but he had bad measurables.

Are you just limited in your ability to convey the thought so you go with a buzzphrase? You think he is a bit slow and unable to break down opponents off the dribble or penetrate to the basket? I do not agree I think he is plenty fast and so did CRB when he recruited him to play PG. When he put him in the lineup after a week of practice. I am gonna give coach the benefit of the doubt for now.

I get the point you are trying to make. The issue is it makes no sense. If you require every player on our team or at PG to be an elite athlete you're gonna be a sad panda for a long long while. Very few starting PG's in the NBA much less the SEC ar elite athletes. Heck most on the Hall of fame arent. You are setting a ridiculously high bar based on what?

 

[BruinVol]

You are being ridiculous. You're saying to be a PG one has to be an elite athlete? Name the last elite athlete we had at PG? Learn to not hyperbole so much. Bone wasn't, neither was Turner. I'm trying to remember the last elite athlete was had at PG.. or on the team period. How do you define elite athlete? Because I find myself curious as to your definition of the word. Bone was very good and fast but he had bad measurables.

Are you just limited in your ability to convey the thought so you go with a buzzphrase? You think he is a bit slow and unable to break down opponents off the dribble or penetrate to the basket? I do not agree I think he is plenty fast and so did CRB when he recruited him to play PG. When he put him in the lineup after a week of practice. I am gonna give coach the benefit of the doubt for now.

You lost all credibility when you said Bone wasn’t an elite athlete. Maybe you need to revisit the nba combine numbers to look at those “bad measurables”

Bone had elite first step quickness and was also as very good leaper. Anyone arguing differently is lost

 

[pimo1]

You lost all credibility when you said Bone wasn’t an elite athlete. Maybe you need to revisit the nba combine numbers to look at those “bad measurables”

Bone had elite first step quickness and was also as very good leaper. Anyone arguing differently is lost

Yup he was one of the quickest guys at combine. He also had the smallest hands of EVERYONE there which is a very un-elite measurement for a PG. elite athletes are elite in more than one respect. When I personally think of elite athlete I think of someone with abnormal measurables. Bones measurables are not abnormal for someone his size.

I'll give you an example. Shaquille Oneal and Stanley Roberts. 2 7 footers that played at LSU together. Both about the same size. Shaq was an elite athlete Roberts was not. He was tall and strong (expected) but slow. This is why Shaq was considered and Elite athlete because he had traits unexpected for a person of his stature. Bone did not have any traits abnormal for someone of his build. He was well above average at one (expected) thing.

Anyway I am gonna remove myself from this conversation. You see things how you see them I just wanted to understand your point of view and I think I have a bit of a grasp at this point. You win because Vescovi is not 6'7" running a 4.2 40 and a 1 second 3 cone he is a terrible person who will never amount to anything. (John Stockton says hi)

 

[BruinVol]

Yup he was one of the quickest guys at combine. He also had the smallest hands of EVERYONE there which is a very un-elite measurement for a PG. elite athletes are elite in more than one respect. When I personally think of elite athlete I think of someone with abnormal measurables. Bones measurables are not abnormal for someone his size.

I'll give you an example. Shaquille Oneal and Stanley Roberts. 2 7 footers that played at LSU together. Both about the same size. Shaq was an elite athlete Roberts was not. He was tall and strong (expected) but slow. This is why Shaq was considered and Elite athlete because he had traits unexpected for a person of his stature. Bone did not have any traits abnormal for someone of his build. He was well above average at one (expected) thing.

Anyway I am gonna remove myself from this conversation. You see things how you see them I just wanted to understand your point of view and I think I have a bit of a grasp at this point. You win because Vescovi is not 6'7" running a 4.2 40 and a 1 second 3 cone he is a terrible person who will never amount to anything. (John Stockton says hi)

Lol

So small hands makes one a bad athlete

Dumb


And also thanks for making My point using Shaq and Roberts. Funny how him Being slow is relevant isn’t it ? lol. Point perfectly made for me

 

[BruinVol]

After two games it’s clear to be James is our best PG


Huge win tonight and two huge shots by our new SG

 

[Lankykong]

After two games it’s clear to be James is our best PG


Huge win tonight and two huge shots by our new SG

He’s so calm with the ball, I love it. That “not confident with him having the ball” part of our fanbase has to be gone now with how well he’s been handling the ball

 

[BruinVol]

He’s so calm with the ball, I love it. That “not confident with him having the ball” part of our fanbase has to be gone now with how well he’s been handling the ball

Yep. The next step I want to see him take is when he has the ball with 5-7 seconds left in the shot clock he needs to make a play. He is too willing to give that ball up and I think he can use that great frame he has to shoot over and get fouled late in shot clocks

 

[JelloPuddinPup]

Yup he was one of the quickest guys at combine. He also had the smallest hands of EVERYONE there which is a very un-elite measurement for a PG. elite athletes are elite in more than one respect. When I personally think of elite athlete I think of someone with abnormal measurables. Bones measurables are not abnormal for someone his size.

I'll give you an example. Shaquille Oneal and Stanley Roberts. 2 7 footers that played at LSU together. Both about the same size. Shaq was an elite athlete Roberts was not. He was tall and strong (expected) but slow. This is why Shaq was considered and Elite athlete because he had traits unexpected for a person of his stature. Bone did not have any traits abnormal for someone of his build. He was well above average at one (expected) thing.

Anyway I am gonna remove myself from this conversation. You see things how you see them I just wanted to understand your point of view and I think I have a bit of a grasp at this point. You win because Vescovi is not 6'7" running a 4.2 40 and a 1 second 3 cone he is a terrible person who will never amount to anything. (John Stockton says hi)

Sorry but you missed this one. Several NBA media/scouts were shocked to see that, at least on paper, Bone was the best athlete at the combine. Did he use it in an "elite" way here at UT? No, but he is elite as an athlete.

I think you're both making different points of what type of PG you can win with. There's been dozens of "good not great" PGs at the college level for great teams. I think SV or JJJ can both be that guy for a very good team. All you need is someone capable of being Jason Kidd the year the Mavs won the Championship. 1, Take care of the ball. 2, initiate/run your team offense. 3, smart enough to set teammates up in areas of success and calm during duress. 4, hit open shots. You don't have to be an otherwordly defender, athlete, etc. Just above average IQ (probably best on the team) and know your role. Kidd also did it on Team USA in 2008. He was the reason that team (and LeBron, Wade, Melo, etc) took such a massive leap forward. He showed them what they'd missed in their early careers. How to be leaders and how to be a professional on a team full of all-world talent. Accepting a role for a greater cause and buying in to an identity.

Of course, this is simple on paper haha.

 

[pimo1]

Sorry but you missed this one. Several NBA media/scouts were shocked to see that, at least on paper, Bone was the best athlete at the combine. Did he use it in an "elite" way here at UT? No, but he is elite as an athlete.

I think you're both making different points of what type of PG you can win with. There's been dozens of "good not great" PGs at the college level for great teams. I think SV or JJJ can both be that guy for a very good team. All you need is someone capable of being Jason Kidd the year the Mavs won the Championship. 1, Take care of the ball. 2, initiate/run your team offense. 3, smart enough to set teammates up in areas of success and calm during duress. 4, hit open shots. You don't have to be an otherwordly defender, athlete, etc. Just above average IQ (probably best on the team) and know your role. Kidd also did it on Team USA in 2008. He was the reason that team (and LeBron, Wade, Melo, etc) took such a massive leap forward. He showed them what they'd missed in their early careers. How to be leaders and how to be a professional on a team full of all-world talent. Accepting a role for a greater cause and buying in to an identity.

Of course, this is simple on paper haha.

My point is simple. Saying Vescovi cant be a PG because he is not an "Elite" athlete is silly. The very definition of Elite means that most people are not. Bone is probably a bad example but the fact his hands are so small is what really held him back in a lot of scouts' minds. Hand size is huge in the NBA especially for guards. Micheal Jordan had hands bigger than Patrick Eqings it allowed him to do things with the ball most could not. Having small hands effects handles a lot. I didn't mean to knock on Bone at all was just saying we haven't had an elite athlete at PG in recent memory thought it could be argued that he and Bobby Maze were.

 

[BruinVol]

My point is simple. Saying Vescovi cant be a PG because he is not an "Elite" athlete is silly. The very definition of Elite means that most people are not. Bone is probably a bad example but the fact his hands are so small is what really held him back in a lot of scouts' minds. Hand size is huge in the NBA especially for guards. Micheal Jordan had hands bigger than Patrick Eqings it allowed him to do things with the ball most could not. Having small hands effects handles a lot. I didn't mean to knock on Bone at all was just saying we haven't had an elite athlete at PG in recent memory thought it could be argued that he and Bobby Maze were.

How about this?

VS has below average athleticism when
It comes to power 5 PGs and that’s why he can’t be a primary PG on a championship level team.


He’s not even close to being an elite athlete

 

[LeannaVol]

How about this?

VS has below average athleticism when
It comes to power 5 PGs and that’s why he can’t be a primary PG on a championship level team.


He’s not even close to being an elite athlete

I hope some of you young guys will bookmark this comment and bump it in 2 or 3 years when Vescovi is the primary PG on a championship level team. That's my hope and I think he can do it. Bruin you may be right but neither of us should be making too many proclamations about a guy that has only played two games and only been on campus for two weeks.

 

[calban]

How about this?

VS has below average athleticism when
It comes to power 5 PGs and that’s why he can’t be a primary PG on a championship level team.


He’s not even close to being an elite athlete

Elite athlete.
I would take a guy with 5 thumbs that comes in and averages 15 points in his first 2 games over an elite athlete (which we have on roster) that takes 3 years to contribute, any day of the week and twice on tuesdays.

 

[BruinVol]

Elite athlete.
I would take a guy with 5 thumbs that comes in and averages 15 points in his first 2 games over an elite athlete (which we have on roster) that takes 3 years to contribute, any day of the week and twice on tuesdays.

I love him too


As a SG

 

[BruinVol]

I hope some of you young guys will bookmark this comment and bump it in 2 or 3 years when Vescovi is the primary PG on a championship level team. That's my hope and I think he can do it. Bruin you may be right but neither of us should be making too many proclamations about a guy that has only played two games and only been on campus for two weeks.

Same thing was posted when I said kent was never going to help

Same thing with Pember

 

[calban]

I love him too


As a SG

That might help him for now. Can't argue his catch and shoot abilities. Splitting time at point until he improves ball security couldn't hurt. (Am I agreeing with you to a point?)

 

[pimo1]

How about this?

VS has below average athleticism when
It comes to power 5 PGs and that’s why he can’t be a primary PG on a championship level team.


He’s not even close to being an elite athlete

Still false. First off there is no way this team is gonna be championship level the next 2 years much less this year and anyone with that expectation has serious issues. As far as athleticism goes in power 5 PG's he is not below average. In fact, he is above average. You might wanna look around some. Second P5 has a lot less relevance in basketball that's mostly a football thing. Yes if you look at elite schools like Kentucky and Duke and so on you have a point. We ain't them. But here is the real point. He was never brought in the be the lead guard. Those guys come next year. Turner was to be our lead guard with JJJ backing him up this season. That hasn't worked out for obvious reasons. JJJ is also a good example of how you're wrong he is an elite athlete but he sure as heck is not gonna be the lead PG either anytime soon.

Let's focus on this year and reality? Vescovi is the best option on our roster at PG right now period. You can like or dislike that fact all you want but it does not change it. We should be getting behind the guy. Folks complain he cant break people off the dribble.. neither can anyone else on the team. What he can do is shoot at an elite level and he looks to be settling in as a distributor. Why can't people just enjoy what we have and support our guys instead of constantly tearing them down. This year's team is what it is and what most expected before a rebuild. This is a year to get the roleplayers trained up on the system. Barnes has already proven he can do this just give him time and I bet this team outperforms what they should be cable of. We are the same thing we have been for decades, Wing U. We have always had issues getting big men and point guards. Just usually its one or the other.
Look at UTs roster the last 20 years and it's littered with tweeners 2/3 and 3/4 guys. We always have issues at the 1 and/or 5. Look at the legends of UT history almost all of them are wings.

Lets cyberhug, agree to disagree and enjoy the rest of this season. I am looking forward to see this team grow and have faith it will because unlike the past few coaches we have had Barnes if nothing else develops players.

 

[BruinVol]

Still false. First off there is no way this team is gonna be championship level the next 2 years

Next years team will have a lot of championship talk around it and rightfully so.

Pons-fulk-VS-JJJ is a great nucleus with the diaper dandies being added

I disagree with you wholeheartedly

 

[BruinVol]

Let's focus on this year and reality? Vescovi is the best option on our roster at PG right now period. .

James is imo and we saw Barnes Head that way last night. James also has more ceiling and giving him the minutes might have a bigger payoff

 

[cncchris33]

Still false. First off there is no way this team is gonna be championship level the next 2 years much less this year and anyone with that expectation has serious issues. As far as athleticism goes in power 5 PG's he is not below average. In fact, he is above average. You might wanna look around some. Second P5 has a lot less relevance in basketball that's mostly a football thing. Yes if you look at elite schools like Kentucky and Duke and so on you have a point. We ain't them. But here is the real point. He was never brought in the be the lead guard. Those guys come next year. Turner was to be our lead guard with JJJ backing him up this season. That hasn't worked out for obvious reasons. JJJ is also a good example of how you're wrong he is an elite athlete but he sure as heck is not gonna be the lead PG either anytime soon.

Let's focus on this year and reality? Vescovi is the best option on our roster at PG right now period. You can like or dislike that fact all you want but it does not change it. We should be getting behind the guy. Folks complain he cant break people off the dribble.. neither can anyone else on the team. What he can do is shoot at an elite level and he looks to be settling in as a distributor. Why can't people just enjoy what we have and support our guys instead of constantly tearing them down. This year's team is what it is and what most expected before a rebuild. This is a year to get the roleplayers trained up on the system. Barnes has already proven he can do this just give him time and I bet this team outperforms what they should be cable of. We are the same thing we have been for decades, Wing U. We have always had issues getting big men and point guards. Just usually its one or the other.
Look at UTs roster the last 20 years and it's littered with tweeners 2/3 and 3/4 guys. We always have issues at the 1 and/or 5. Look at the legends of UT history almost all of them are wings.

Lets cyberhug, agree to disagree and enjoy the rest of this season. I am looking forward to see this team grow and have faith it will because unlike the past few coaches we have had Barnes if nothing else develops players.

You don’t think that we might have championship level talent next year? I agree that we may be a little thin and inexperienced in the paint, but with Vescovi, James, Springer, Johnson, Walker, Pons, n the perimeter, we will have one of the most talented group of guards/SFs in the country. We are an impact grad transfer or freshman at C or PF away from having all bases covered, IMO.

 

[LeannaVol]

You were right about Kent and I have said similar things about Pember although I hope to be wrong. Regardless SV looks a lot more promising then those two

 

[BruinVol]

You were right about Kent and I have said similar things about Pember although I hope to be wrong. Regardless SV looks a lot more promising then those two

I think people are getting me post wrong. I agree he’s very promising.
He’s a dang sharp shooter and that’s a huge need for us

I think the future is very very bright for our team next year and even brighter now that we have VS but who is our PG is the only real piece of the puzzle for me. Springer by many accounts is a better SG so it’s going to be interesting to see who the Pg ends up being next year

 

[JoAllan]

I think people are getting me post wrong. I agree he’s very promising.
He’s a dang sharp shooter and that’s a huge need for us

I think the future is very very bright for our team next year and even brighter now that we have VS but who is our PG is the only real piece of the puzzle for me. Springer by many accounts is a better SG so it’s going to be interesting to see who the Pg ends up being next year

I think the point will be Vescovi and Bailey.

Just my opinion, but “if” Tennessee wasn’t wanting him to play point......I don’t see why in the world they brought Bailey in......however I think he will play point.

 

[BruinVol]

I think the point will be Vescovi and Bailey.

Just my opinion, but “if” Tennessee wasn’t wanting him to play point......I don’t see why in the world they brought Bailey in......however I think he will play point.

I have no real basis on this thinking so I am not willing to bet on its accuracy but my hunch is i think if Barnes had it to all
Over again he wouldn’t have brought bailey in

JMO

 

[pimo1]

You don’t think that we might have championship level talent next year? I agree that we may be a little thin and inexperienced in the paint, but with Vescovi, James, Springer, Johnson, Walker, Pons, n the perimeter, we will have one of the most talented group of guards/SFs in the country. We are an impact grad transfer or freshman at C or PF away from having all bases covered, IMO.

SEC championship? not impossible NCAA? no way. Barnes has said it many times it takes about a year and a half to get a PG fully into his system. Its not impossible but its an unrealistic expectation. anything could happen next year but given what we know now we are missing too much at the 1 and 5. We do not have a true post player and even best case next season we will have 1 true post player. We will have one true PG on the roster 1 transfer learning the position but he will have had this year in practice to learn the system and an incoming freshman that's a combo guard. Not only that it comes down to what happens with other teams too. We don't play in a vacuum other teams improve also.

A lot of things have to fall in place for a championship run. and that's just at the SEC level. I don't see any reason we don't make the big dance next year and make some noise but final four? That's a wish not a real expectation one should harbor right now. I think next year is the buildup and the year after we make our statement.

 

[cncchris33]

SEC championship? not impossible NCAA? no way. Barnes has said it many times it takes about a year and a half to get a PG fully into his system. Its not impossible but its an unrealistic expectation. anything could happen next year but given what we know now we are missing too much at the 1 and 5. We do not have a true post player and even best case next season we will have 1 true post player. We will have one true PG on the roster 1 transfer learning the position but he will have had this year in practice to learn the system and an incoming freshman that's a combo guard. Not only that it comes down to what happens with other teams too. We don't play in a vacuum other teams improve also.

A lot of things have to fall in place for a championship run. and that's just at the SEC level. I don't see any reason we don't make the big dance next year and make some noise but final four? That's a wish not a real expectation one should harbor right now. I think next year is the buildup and the year after we make our statement.

Well, to call it a wish vs expectation for a program that has never been to the FF in its history is a bit like stating the obvious. No one expects us to be there, but plenty of teams have made it there that weren’t expected to make it.

And of course we don’t play in a vacuum. Other teams improve, some get worse from year to year. Did Tennessee improve from last year to this year?

I think we fill in a lot of talent-deprived holes next year with the kind of kids that are wanted by everyone. We can win and be competitive with a perimeter-oriented team. Just look at Villanova. We just can’t be as absent of talent, size, and bodies as we are at the moment. Adding Plavsic and an impact grad transfer, plus a SR Fulk should make us much better just in size and presence in the post.

To be clear, I’m in no way predicting a FF for next season, but I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility and it’s certainly more plausible than this year. We will have UNC, Michigan State, Villanova type talent next season. Those programs regularly make noise in the Big Dance. If we get a couple breaks go our way, I think we will have the talent to seize the opportunity, ourselves. That still doesn’t mean we will.