Marine discharged over anti-Obama comments

#26
#26
bleedorange1983 said:
It actually was a joke. My only mistake was not taking into account how some posters in this thread might take my comment so seriously for whatever reason.
Click to expand...

Conservatism- serious business.

I actually chuckled. I would have laughed if it had been a liberal and the MSNBC joke was made. In fact, I find the extremes on both sides a joke.
 
#28
#28
RespectTradition said:
As I read the article, he was discharged because:



Can someone explain why a marine should not be allowed to engage in political conduct as long as it does not interfere with his duty?
Click to expand...

I assume it had more to do with his assertion that he would disobey orders.
 
#29
#29
JayVols said:
Conservatism- serious business.

I actually chuckled. I would have laughed if it had been a liberal and the MSNBC joke was made. In fact, I find the extremes on both sides a joke.
Click to expand...

Well yeah...but the majority around here get their panties bunched up when a anti-conservative joke is made, but will be quick to jump on a anti-liberal agenda.
 
#30
#30
RespectTradition said:
As I read the article, he was discharged because:



Can someone explain why a marine should not be allowed to engage in political conduct as long as it does not interfere with his duty?
Click to expand...

By definition, political conduct does interfere with military duty. Threatening to not follow orders from the CiC is textbook breakdown of discipline.. The military system's foundation is based on a chain of command. When you openly proclaim that you will not follow orders from the top of that chain and are dismissed, it's your own fault for breaking long standing well established military regs. The rules are different for military personnel. It's no secret. They are well aware of the rules when they enlist as well as the consequences for breaking those rules. Our military would be total chaos without strict adherence to established rules.
 
#31
#31
GoBigOrangeUT said:
Well yeah...but the majority around here get their panties bunched up when a anti-conservative joke is made, but will be quick to jump on a anti-liberal agenda.
Click to expand...

Political double standards are nothing new. In fact, they are more like the rule rather than the exception.
 
#32
#32
therealUT said:
I assume it had more to do with his assertion that he would disobey orders.
Click to expand...
I suspect that is probably true, but then why don't they say that?
JayVols said:
By definition, political conduct does interfere with military duty. Threatening to not follow orders from the CiC is textbook breakdown of discipline.. The military system's foundation is based on a chain of command. When you openly proclaim that you will not follow orders from the top of that chain and are dismissed, it's your own fault for breaking long standing well established military regs. The rules are different for military personnel. It's no secret. They are well aware of the rules when they enlist as well as the consequences for breaking those rules. Our military would be total chaos without strict adherence to established rules.
Click to expand...

How does political conduct interfere with military duty? Isn't voting political conduct? How can giving a speech at your local GOP in support of Candidate X for mayor of your town compromise your ability to perform your duty? I am confused about the bolded part.

If you are in the military and there is a rumor going around that your unit will be required to attack an elementary school and kill everyone under the age of 10 to punish the locals for their support of insurgency, would you be in the wrong to say that you would refuse to obey that order?
 
#33
#33
RespectTradition said:
I suspect that is probably true, but then why don't they say that?


How does political conduct interfere with military duty? Isn't voting political conduct? How can giving a speech at your local GOP in support of Candidate X for mayor of your town compromise your ability to perform your duty? I am confused about the bolded part.

If you are in the military and there is a rumor going around that your unit will be required to attack an elementary school and kill everyone under the age of 10 to punish the locals for their support of insurgency, would you be in the wrong to say that you would refuse to obey that order?
Click to expand...

Claiming the POTUS is not a citizen and vowing not to follow orders is a far cry from voting.


Ridiculous example. First of all, the regular US military can't be used for law enforcement purposes inside our borders. That's why the issue of using the military to enforce immigration laws is problematic to so many. Second, an order of that nature is illegal rendering it an invalid order.
 
#34
#34
Looking into this a little more, it looks like he was engaging in his brand of politics while in uniform, in public. Big no no, at least back in my day. I don't think they could have thrown an enlisted man out for running his mouth on FB, but wearing a uniform in public and spouting off will get you run.
 
#35
#35
JayVols said:
Claiming the POTUS is not a citizen and vowing not to follow orders is a far cry from voting.


Ridiculous example. First of all, the regular US military can't be used for law enforcement purposes inside our borders. That's why the issue of using the military to enforce immigration laws is problematic to so many. Second, an order of that nature is illegal rendering it an invalid order.
Click to expand...

When do you get to decide that? (bolded part) Do you get to decide it when you are ordered to invade a country and congress has not declared war? That is an illegal order, but it is one given over and over. That is the example that this fellow used for disobeying.

Its not ridiculous, various militaries around the world have engage in just that kind of behavior. I never said internal, we are fighting an insurgency in Afghanistan as we speak.

I never said that voting and being a birther are equivalent. Earlier I asked what was bad about being political in general and you said it is by definition an interference in your duty. We never limited the scope to what this guy did. I don't know enough facts in this case. I am talking about ideas. I am questioning the idea that being political is inherently bad. Which you asserted.
 
#37
#37
RespectTradition said:
When do you get to decide that? (bolded part) Do you get to decide it when you are ordered to invade a country and congress has not declared war? That is an illegal order, but it is one given over and over. That is the example that this fellow used for disobeying.

Its not ridiculous, various militaries around the world have engage in just that kind of behavior. I never said internal, we are fighting an insurgency in Afghanistan as we speak.

I never said that voting and being a birther are equivalent. Earlier I asked what was bad about being political in general and you said it is by definition an interference in your duty. We never limited the scope to what this guy did. I don't know enough facts in this case. I am talking about ideas. I am questioning the idea that being political is inherently bad. Which you asserted.
Click to expand...

You ever been in the military? There's a process for this just as there's a process for what this marine did. The process played out, the marine lost as he should have.

We are not 'various militaries around the world'. Your arguments are nothing short of ridiculous and extreme in this case.
 
#38
#38
RespectTradition said:
When do you get to decide that? (bolded part) Do you get to decide it when you are ordered to invade a country and congress has not declared war? That is an illegal order, but it is one given over and over. That is the example that this fellow used for disobeying.

Its not ridiculous, various militaries around the world have engage in just that kind of behavior. I never said internal, we are fighting an insurgency in Afghanistan as we speak.

I never said that voting and being a birther are equivalent. Earlier I asked what was bad about being political in general and you said it is by definition an interference in your duty. We never limited the scope to what this guy did. I don't know enough facts in this case. I am talking about ideas. I am questioning the idea that being political is inherently bad. Which you asserted.
Click to expand...

Simple, our system is based on civilian control of the military.
 
#40
#40
The guy's an idiot, but I don't think this rates an OTH discharge. You're basically ruining a guy for spouting off without thinking. A good percentage of posters on any site(this one included) do the same thing. My dad was career military so I grew up in the atmosphere. I understand there are rules in place. There used to be rules about women and gays as well. The Constitution allows for freedom of speech, even if what you have to say is complete stupidity. From what little I've read, his comments were posted on a closed forum, deleted in 15-30 minutes, but someone who didn't like him took a ss and sent it to his superiors. If that is indeed the case, then this is serious overreaction IMO.

The government and society in general have become too damn sensitive. They've given far more attention to this guy and Ted Nugent than either deserves. Why publicize such ignorance? Is it just to distract us? Fix the damn country instead. Politicians, all politicians, are self-serving egotists who don't really care about you, me, or anyone. All they want is more power.

Sorry for the ranting, but back in the day, a few of his fellow soldiers would have just "encouraged" him to not say anything else and this would be over. Situations like this remind me of just how far off course this nation has gotten. Once upon a time, people in office aspired for power but actually wanted to fix things as well. Nowadays, it's like they don't even care things are broke. All that worries them is holding on to the power they have. There is no patriotism in Washington anymore.
 
#42
#42
The guy was warned by his superiors and also ordered to stop what he was doing, so he got exactly what he was asking for imo.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#43
#43
Weezer said:
The guy's an idiot, but I don't think this rates an OTH discharge. You're basically ruining a guy for spouting off without thinking. A good percentage of posters on any site(this one included) do the same thing. My dad was career military so I grew up in the atmosphere. I understand there are rules in place. There used to be rules about women and gays as well. The Constitution allows for freedom of speech, even if what you have to say is complete stupidity. From what little I've read, his comments were posted on a closed forum, deleted in 15-30 minutes, but someone who didn't like him took a ss and sent it to his superiors. If that is indeed the case, then this is serious overreaction IMO.

The government and society in general have become too damn sensitive. They've given far more attention to this guy and Ted Nugent than either deserves. Why publicize such ignorance? Is it just to distract us? Fix the damn country instead. Politicians, all politicians, are self-serving egotists who don't really care about you, me, or anyone. All they want is more power.

Sorry for the ranting, but back in the day, a few of his fellow soldiers would have just "encouraged" him to not say anything else and this would be over. Situations like this remind me of just how far off course this nation has gotten. Once upon a time, people in office aspired for power but actually wanted to fix things as well. Nowadays, it's like they don't even care things are broke. All that worries them is holding on to the power they have. There is no patriotism in Washington anymore.
Click to expand...

I've seen troops get reprimanded and non-judicial punishment for criticizing Carter, Reagan, HW Bush, Clinton and W. It is drilled into you from day 1 that you don't say or do certain things. Bottom line is you actually give up some rights when you enlist or are commissioned and you know that going in so there is no excuse if you decide to violate the rules later.
 
#44
#44
YorkVol said:
I've seen troops get reprimanded and non-judicial punishment for criticizing Carter, Reagan, HW Bush, Clinton and W. It is drilled into you from day 1 that you don't say or do certain things. Bottom line is you actually give up some rights when you enlist or are commissioned and you know that going in so there is no excuse if you decide to violate the rules later.
Click to expand...

Some people just dont get this. You have less rights and there are things that are just not fair.....you dont have to have an explaination for this, its just the way it is.
 
#47
#47
This guy wanted out. He found a way to get a lot of publicity and will turn it into a lot of money at Fox.
 
#48
#48
vols-1 said:
This guy wanted out. He found a way to get a lot of publicity and will turn it into a lot of money at Fox.
Click to expand...

Ryan Seacrest just inked a multi-year deal and the Simpsons is a cartoon. Where would he go at Fox?
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top