Mark Stoops sounds like he's ready for a better job

#26
#26
05_never_again said:
The biggest indictment against him as a HC is that he's only 2-7 against Tennessee during a horrible period for our program, and Stoops's 2 best teams have both lost to Tennessee (2018 and 2021). Vandy has had way more success against us over that same time period.

Stoops only has a nail biter home victory over 0-8 Butch/the worst team in school history and a win over Skoal Can during the COVID year. Kentucky really should have beaten us in 2018, 2019, and maybe even this year.
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Yes, to me this is his biggest fault. His best teams have lost to subpar UT teams and he's only beaten arguably the worst UT teams in history; and as you pointed out one was a nail biter. This year he completely crapped the bed coaching, some of his decisions were just really, really bad.
 
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#27
#27
LouderVol said:
You are stretching. He said he is committed and plans to be. He said he would rather be talked about for hirings because it means he is succesful. That's not him looking around.

Not saying he wouldnt take another job, just saying these quotes dont say to me that he is gone.
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Not a stretch at all. Part of my job is "reading between the lines" on what people say and everything he said here sounds like he's ready to leave when a better opportunity comes around. Contrast his statements to other coaches like Jimbo Fisher and it's clear that Stoops is ready for a better job. This is about as weak of a "I'm staying put" statement as I've ever heard.

That said, he's sorta in that David Cutcliffe "boring and outperforming at a weaker program, but not winning championships" category. Donors get more excited by the hot G5 coaches so he keeps getting passed up (see Norvell at Florida State; Stoops would've been a better hire in all likelihood). But make no mistake ... he'd take the Florida (or LSU) job in a heartbeat. Don't know about Miami; that job has lost so much prestige in the past 2 decades, that maybe Kentucky is comparable at this point.
 
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#28
#28
BeardedVol said:
He's 29-45 in conference play, and his best SEC record is 5-3.

It's not just UT that he's losing to on a regular basis, and Florida just fired Dan Mullen with a 21-13 SEC record and a year removed from winning the East.
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We've sucked a lot though, which is why I mentioned us. Stoops should be at least as good against us as Vandy has been (Vandy is 4-4 against us since 2013), if not have a winning record. Going 2-6 against Butch and Skoal Can, particularly when you had some pretty good teams, is embarrassing. I don't care how much we dominate the long-term rivalry.

Stoops against SEC East opponents
Georgia: 0-9
Florida: 2-7
Tennessee: 2-7
South Carolina: 7-2
Vanderbilt: 7-2
Missouri: 6-3

The only record that stands out as truly bad there is the one against Tennessee. He's actually been good against the other dregs of the SEC East - beating South Carolina, Vandy, and Missouri 75% of the time for Kentucky is pretty good.

They also should be better than 2-7 against Florida, but Florida has also been much better than Tennessee has been since 2013.
 
#29
#29
05_never_again said:
We've sucked a lot though, which is why I mentioned us. Stoops should be at least as good against us as Vandy has been (Vandy is 4-4 against us since 2013).

Stoops against SEC East opponents
Georgia: 0-9
Florida: 2-7
Tennessee: 2-7
South Carolina: 7-2
Vanderbilt: 7-2
Missouri: 6-3

The only record that stands out as truly bad there is the one against Tennessee. He's actually been good against the other dregs of the SEC East. They also should be better than 2-7 against Florida, but Florida has also been much better than Tennessee has been since 2013.
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Us sucking has no bearing on whether or not Stoops has done well enough at Kentucky to warrant Florida hiring him; he hasn't.

Florida isn't coming after an existing SEC coach who hasn't even been able to maximize the opportunity he's had at his current school.
 
#31
#31
BeardedVol said:
Us sucking has no bearing on whether or not Stoops has done well enough at Kentucky to warrant Florida hiring him; he hasn't.

Florida isn't coming after an existing SEC coach who hasn't even been able to maximize the opportunity he's had at his current school.
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I'm not arguing that UF should hire him. I actually think Stoops has maximized his opportunity there, other than being better against Tennessee. I don't think he'd be good at Florida and he personally is crazy if he's thinking of leaving UK for another job. He has it made there and makes top 20 money. He's 4-14 all-time against UF and Tennessee and isn't remotely on the hot seat.

Kentucky is never winning the SEC East, so the judge Stoops against that is silly. I think he has been good there though, with the exception of his record against us.
 
#32
#32
05_never_again said:
I'm not arguing that UF should hire him. I actually think Stoops has maximized his opportunity there, other than being better against Tennessee. I don't think he'd be good at Florida and he personally is crazy if he's thinking of leaving UK for another job. He has it made there and makes top 20 money. He's 4-14 all-time against UF and Tennessee and isn't remotely on the hot seat.

Kentucky is never winning the SEC East, so the judge Stoops against that is silly. I think he has been good there though, with the exception of his record against us.
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It's kind of funny, he has done a great job for Kentucky, and yet you could still argue he's sort of underachived a few years. Which sounds contradicting but it's kind of like you had to witness it to understand. For example, he has a chance to have his second 10 win season this year, and that's unheard of at UK. Yet at the same time, both years a loss to a down UT is likely keeping UK out of a New Year's Six bowl.

It's the little things with Stoops that keeps him from going from good to great.
 
#33
#33
VolsSportsFan said:
It's kind of funny, he has done a great job for Kentucky, and yet you could still argue he's sort of underachived a few years. Which sounds contradicting but it's kind of like you had to witness it to understand. For example, he has a chance to have his second 10 win season this year, and that's unheard of at UK. Yet at the same time, both years a loss to a down UT is likely keeping UK out of a New Year's Six bowl.

It's the little things with Stoops that keeps him from going from good to great.
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...which is why he's got it made. He's done a great job for them relative to what their program has historically achieved, but you are correct in that he's also left wins at the table at the same time. In exchange for that, they pay him a top 20(!) salary and has great job security; their admin and fans are happy with it. They pay him a hell of a lot of money for what the expect of him.

Plus, he'll always be second fiddle at UK, which has both benefits and drawbacks. He doesn't get ideal support from his admin, but that also keeps heat off of him, and he still gets that nice SEC money anyway.
 
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#35
#35
05_never_again said:
...which is why he's got it made. He's done a great job for them relative to what their program has historically achieved, but you are correct in that he's also left wins at the table at the same time. In exchange for that, they pay him a top 20(!) salary and has great job security; their admin and fans are happy with it. They pay him a hell of a lot of money for what the expect of him.

Plus, he'll always be second fiddle at UK, which has both benefits and drawbacks. He doesn't get ideal support from his admin, but that also keeps heat off of him, and he still gets that nice SEC money anyway.
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Yep and unlike Duke they actually get people to come to games mostly so there is fan support but he'll never have to worry about the same rabid mentality of the basketball crowd. If were him I'd look to try to retire there.
 
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#36
#36
05_never_again said:
I'm not arguing that UF should hire him. I actually think Stoops has maximized his opportunity there, other than being better against Tennessee. I don't think he'd be good at Florida and he personally is crazy if he's thinking of leaving UK for another job. He has it made there and makes top 20 money. He's 4-14 all-time against UF and Tennessee and isn't remotely on the hot seat.

Kentucky is never winning the SEC East, so the judge Stoops against that is silly. I think he has been good there though, with the exception of his record against us.
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Stoops' best seasons, going 5-3 in the SEC, still saw him losing to a mediocre A&M in 2018, and a mediocre Mississippi State in 2021, and those are his best seasons. The rest of his seasons are .500 or less, with the same losses to good teams, usually to UT regardless of how bad we were, and a handful of inexplicable loses as well.

If he were maximizing the situation at Kentucky, he'd be winning the games he should win, more often than not, and his record just doesn't reflect that.

As much as I'd love to see Florida hire him, they aren't firing Mullen for underperforming this year with a 21-13 conference record overall, and hiring Stoops, who regularly underperforms, even with the best teams he's fielded at Kentucky.
 
#37
#37
BeardedVol said:
Stoops' best seasons, going 5-3 in the SEC, still saw him losing to a mediocre A&M in 2018, and a mediocre Mississippi State in 2021, and those are his best seasons. The rest of his seasons are .500 or less, with the same losses to good teams, usually to UT regardless of how bad we were, and a handful of inexplicable loses as well.

If he were maximizing the situation at Kentucky, he'd be winning the games he should win, more often than not, and his record just doesn't reflect that.

As much as I'd love to see Florida hire him, they aren't firing Mullen for underperforming this year with a 21-13 conference record overall, and hiring Stoops, who regularly underperforms, even with the best teams he's fielded at Kentucky.
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But it's Kentucky. They aren't supposed to win every single game against mediocre teams (and 2018 A&M was a little better than mediocre). He beats Missouri, South Carolina, and Vandy 75% of the time. I'm sure you'll laugh and say "so what?" but Kentucky is probably the 2nd or 3rd worst program in SEC history. Winning 3 out of every 4 games against your fellow dregs of the SEC East is not bad there.

The fact that you can describe some of his losses as "inexplicable" means that he's elevated their program, because they are actually expected to win certain games now based on their recent past performance. Kentucky didn't used to have inexplicable losses...they just had losses.

IMO, the only real knock you can make on his tenure there is his record against Tennessee. Kentucky has a mental block with us that is similar to the mental block we have with UF.
 
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#38
#38
VolsSportsFan said:
IMO he's reached his own coaching ability peak too. I think he'd bomb at a better job with more expectations.
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Isn’t he just the SEC East version of Dan Muller at Mississippi State? Perfect where he’s at, not able to handle the bigger aspects of a higher job.
 
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#40
#40
DiderotsGhost said:
Not a stretch at all. Part of my job is "reading between the lines" on what people say and everything he said here sounds like he's ready to leave when a better opportunity comes around. Contrast his statements to other coaches like Jimbo Fisher and it's clear that Stoops is ready for a better job. This is about as weak of a "I'm staying put" statement as I've ever heard.

That said, he's sorta in that David Cutcliffe "boring and outperforming at a weaker program, but not winning championships" category. Donors get more excited by the hot G5 coaches so he keeps getting passed up (see Norvell at Florida State; Stoops would've been a better hire in all likelihood). But make no mistake ... he'd take the Florida (or LSU) job in a heartbeat. Don't know about Miami; that job has lost so much prestige in the past 2 decades, that maybe Kentucky is comparable at this point.
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I’m going to read between the lines and say you are in sales.
 
#41
#41
zjcvols said:
Isn’t he just the SEC East version of Dan Muller at Mississippi State? Perfect where he’s at, not able to handle the bigger aspects of a higher job.
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I'm not sure if Stoops eschews recruiting as much as Mullen does, but I don't think either could handle everything that comes with a big job. The problem with the big jobs is that coaching football is just part of the job. I wouldn't want to do it either.
 
#46
#46
05_never_again said:
But it's Kentucky. They aren't supposed to win every single game against mediocre teams (and 2018 A&M was a little better than mediocre). He beats Missouri, South Carolina, and Vandy 75% of the time. I'm sure you'll laugh and say "so what?" but Kentucky is probably the 2nd or 3rd worst program in SEC history. Winning 3 out of every 4 games against your fellow dregs of the SEC East is not bad there.

The fact that you can describe some of his losses as "inexplicable" means that he's elevated their program, because they are actually expected to win certain games now based on their recent past performance. Kentucky didn't used to have inexplicable losses...they just had losses.

IMO, the only real knock you can make on his tenure there is his record against Tennessee. Kentucky has a mental block with us that is similar to the mental block we have with UF.
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False. Vandy, MSU and SC all have worse program histories than UK and the Wildcats play all three yearly. And Stoops still can’t win anything
 
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#47
#47
The reason Stoops has done well at UK is he has recruited Ohio and that area well. That is home to him, where he grew up. Take him away from that area and he will struggle.
 
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#49
#49
I think Stoops has done a good job at Kentucky. Mid season attrition on the defensive line hurt them this year because they didn't have the quality depth to make up for it when several starters/contributors were out simultaneously. Hard to say whether Stoops would do a great job at LSU or UF, but they could definitely do worse.
 
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#50
#50
Stoops is an excellent recruiter and program builder. This is his year to move on if he gets a solid offer. I believe UK has a ton of seniors and may drop off next season. Stoops is not a dynamic hire but is a class guy and solid coach. I bet he was on White's list last year for the Vol job but Danny hired the right man the second time with Heupel. The next 2 weeks should be real interesting on coach moves.
 
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