MBB: Elite Jobs?

#1
Hoosier_Vol

Hoosier_Vol

Vol Stuck in B1G 10 Hell
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#1
This is kinda a spin off from a debate in the Coaching Changes thread. What & who do you consider elite jobs?

I don't consider Indiana an elite program anymore, their last national title was 30 yrs ago. Yes they have a storied history and play in a premier hoops conference but does that automatically consider the job elite?

My definition of an elite job is they have proven to be a constant title winner/contender for a long span, have the ability to be a recruiting Juggernaut and have the $$$ to get the staff they want and keep them for a long stay.

I'm sure I'll get hammered but here is MY LIST

UNC
Kentucky
Duke
Michigan State
Louisville
Kansas
 
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#2
#2
I think a good way of figuring out what the elite programs are is just going down this list, and you hit them all

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Men's_Division_I_Final_Four_appearances_by_school

I think there are a few other programs that meet your definition of "have the ability to be a recruiting Juggernaut and have the $$$ to get the staff they want and keep them for a long stay," but either are far removed from their last title or do not have the pedigree/tradition of the blue bloods. They'd include:

UCLA
Indiana
Ohio State
Syracuse
UConn
Florida
Georgetown
Michigan
Arizona
Villanova
 
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#3
#3
I might add Arizona,Syracuse, maybe Connecticut to that list, but that's about it. 30 years ago you would have had Indiana, Georgetown, St. John's, Syracuse, maybe UCLA on the list.
 
#5
#5
Arizona- I think they are real close in my opinion
UCLA- I don't consider them a team that for the most part year in and year out are contenders

UCONN- I don't see it

There are a ton of "Really Good Programs Traditionally" that are still far from "elite"
 
#6
#6
Hoosier_Vol said:
UCLA- I don't consider them a team that for the most part year in and year out are contenders
Click to expand...

This is true, but the real question for them, and USC too, is "why is that?"

There is no good reason why schools like USC and UCLA should be bad at any sport given their location, money, academics, proximity to talent pools, etc. If they struggle for any extended period of time, it almost certainly is due to internal incompetence.
 
#7
#7
The teams you listed are all elite because they have consistently had great coaches. It will be interesting to see what happens when these current coaches all retire and see where the programs go. It's impossible to make the right hire all the time. I'm hoping for Matt Doherty 2.0 in Chapel Hill once Ol Huckleberry rides off into the sunset.
 
#8
#8
RDU VOL#14 said:
The teams you listed are all elite because they have consistently had great coaches. It will be interesting to see what happens when these current coaches all retire and see where the programs go. It's impossible to make the right hire all the time. I'm hoping for Matt Doherty 2.0 in Chapel Hill once Ol Huckleberry rides off into the sunset.
Click to expand...

How much longer do you think Coach K has left? He's 4 years older than Roy Williams.
 
#9
#9
Hoosier_Vol said:
This is kinda a spin off from a debate in the Coaching Changes thread. What & who do you consider elite jobs?

I don't consider Indiana an elite program anymore, their last national title was 30 yrs ago. Yes they have a storied history and play in a premier hoops conference but does that automatically consider the job elite?

My definition of an elite job is they have proven to be a constant title winner/contender for a long span, have the ability to be a recruiting Juggernaut and have the $$$ to get the staff they want and keep them for a long stay.

I'm sure I'll get hammered but here is MY LIST

UNC
Kentucky
Duke
Michigan State
Louisville
Kansas
Click to expand...

Elite Jobs or elite coaches?
 
#11
#11
05_never_again said:
I think a good way of figuring out what the elite programs are is just going down this list, and you hit them all

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Men's_Division_I_Final_Four_appearances_by_school

I think there are a few other programs that meet your definition of "have the ability to be a recruiting Juggernaut and have the $$$ to get the staff they want and keep them for a long stay," but either are far removed from their last title or do not have the pedigree/tradition of the blue bloods. They'd include:

UCLA
Indiana
Ohio State
Syracuse
UConn
Florida
Georgetown
Michigan
Arizona
Villanova
Click to expand...
There's a difference in being a blue blood and being elite. Indiana is a blue blood but they aren't elite. Bobby Knight took elite with him when they shoved him out the door. The current state of basketball in Indiana is:

1. Butler
2. Purdue
3. Notre Dame
4. Valparaiso
5. IU

Nothing screams elite about IU hoops.
 
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#15
#15
BUBear said:
There's a difference in being a blue blood and being elite. Indiana is a blue blood but they aren't elite. Bobby Knight took elite with him when they shoved him out the door. The current state of basketball in Indiana is:

1. Butler
2. Purdue
3. Notre Dame
4. Valparaiso
5. IU

Nothing screams elite about IU hoops.
Click to expand...

I think we are splitting hairs here.

I would consider you to be an elite program if your circumstances are such that if you get competent people in place, you can afford to keep them and be competitive for deep tournament runs on a year in, year out basis. For example, Alabama was an "elite" football program before Nick Saban got there, even though they hadn't won a national title in over a decade and the program was a laughingstock.

Some of those programs are good today and have always been good (the true "blue bloods," I suppose), some were good in the past but aren't as good today, and some weren't good a long time ago but are good today.

Indiana still has a good car, but needs to find a good driver. UCLA is another program that falls into this category. There really isn't a good reason why UCLA shouldn't be a consistently competitive basketball program, despite the fact that they haven't been one for at least 10 years.
 
#16
#16
To me the top tier is Duke, UNC, Kentucky and Kansas.

Louisville, UCLA, Indiana and Arizona would be next on my list, in no particular order.
 
#17
#17
This whole list is emotional, sentimental and some "what have you done for me lately." At the end of the day, it's about fan support, student support and most importantly $$$ from booster support.

But about Indiana....

Indiana is at a crossroad. Do they shell out major money to make their program relevant again? Or try to find the hot up and coming mid-major? Think of Alabama football before Saban. They backed up the truck and dumped the money and look what they got. They were floundering before him, one of the "used to be" teams. So what will Indiana do?
 
#18
#18
UNC
Kansas
UCLA
Kentucky

Programs that a good HC can win NCs at. No huge buildup needed.

Arizona
Illinois
Indiana
Duke
Louisville
Syracuse

Premier programs that can be down but built up in pretty much a minimum of time. Need more than simply a good coach to reach the promised land tho.

That's it for me. Lotta great programs just under these imo...but these are the standardbearers.
 
#19
#19
butchna said:
UNC
Kansas
UCLA
Kentucky

Programs that a good HC can win NCs at. No huge buildup needed.

Arizona
Illinois
Indiana
Duke
Louisville
Syracuse

Premier programs that can be down but built up in pretty much a minimum of time. Need more than simply a good coach to reach the promised land tho.

That's it for me. Lotta great programs just under these imo...but these are the standardbearers.
Click to expand...

The Illinois homerism is getting a little out of hand lol
 
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#21
#21
NashVol11 said:
The Illinois homerism is getting a little out of hand lol
Click to expand...

How would I qualify as a "homer"? Don't live there and never went to school there. Never pulled for them. It's an opinion and you're overreacting..,so unlike you. :)
 
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