McCain missed all 8 votes on energy legislation

#51
#51
TennNC said:
it's only pie in the sky if people (*cough* oil companies *cough*) keep saying it's pie in the sky.
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Yea, no oil company would like to be the creator of a type of energy that would get people off of oil and basically have people beating down their door for it.

Have you EVER considered that their is not a good alternative out there right now, because there isn't one? With all these scientists and engineers(obviously the ones not employed by Big Oil) working on this issue and nothing has evolved yet. Do you think there might be a reason for that? It will come in due time, it can't arrive just because we really really really want it to.
 
#52
#52
BigPapaVol said:
we need to figure out how to get the oil companies to do it themselves or let the free markets figure it out, which they tend to do.

There is a lot of BigOil venture capital chasing solutions out there today, but you're not going to hear about it because of the competitive nature of that business.
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the free market right now seems to be doing a great job making bank for oil cos. but not such a great job at helping the economy overall. essentially oil has a monopoly on energy, no? why not make it easier to give us more options in terms of what our energy sources are?
 
#53
#53
TennNC said:
illustrations.

examples.
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The point remains that the link between this bill and the most important issue we face is tenuous. The impact of this bill is minor in the big picture. Defeat of this bill should encourage bolder and more important bills.

This bill is a band-aid on an artery. We've seen time and time again where Congress takes inconsequential steps and claims it has "addressed the issue".

To claim this was a major, important energy bill is really stretching it yet that is exactly what the author does by concluding that McCain doesn't really care about energy since he didn't vote on this bill - as has been stated, Obama must not care about energy either.
 
#54
#54
allvol123 said:
Yea, no oil company would like to be the creator of a type of energy that would get people off of oil and basically have people beating down their door for it.

Have you EVER considered that their is not a good alternative out there right now, because there isn't one? With all these scientists and engineers(obviously the ones not employed by Big Oil) working on this issue and nothing has evolved yet. Do you think there might be a reason for that? It will come in due time, it can't arrive just because we really really really want it to.
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yes i have. and what i read tells me otherwise.

have you considered that we've actually figured out how to harness it? have you considered that several countries are way ahead of us in terms of harnessing these sources (some of which happen to be infinite, btw). have you considered that massive companies are already doing more of this themselves? have you considered that many homes in places like California are powering their houses with their own solar panels and then giving energy back to the grid?

the way i see it, the challenge isn't whether it can work. it's making the investment cost-effective relative to the cost of oil thanks to the massive infrastructure that's already in place there.

we can still use oil - but utilizing other sources will make us not DEPEND on it as much.
 
#55
#55
TennNC said:
the free market right now seems to be doing a great job making bank for oil cos. but not such a great job at helping the economy overall. essentially oil has a monopoly on energy, no? why not make it easier to give us more options in terms of what our energy sources are?
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but you do understand that oil prices had to move to a point that alternatives (and extremely risky investments in them) became economically viable. Otherwise, the investment just didn't make sense.

Unfortunately, we can't have instant responses.

That said, I don't believe the oil problem is as significant as made out to be today from a supply / demand perspective. Our weak dollar and enormous piles of capital seeking commodities have driven oil pricing through the roof, but it's not a long term problem. Oil is well on its way back to where it should be from a historical pricing perspective.
 
#58
#58
BigPapaVol said:
but you do understand that oil prices had to move to a point that alternatives (and extremely risky investments in them) became economically viable. Otherwise, the investment just didn't make sense.

Unfortunately, we can't have instant responses.

That said, I don't believe the oil problem is as significant as made out to be today from a supply / demand perspective. Our weak dollar and enormous piles of capital seeking commodities have driven oil pricing through the roof, but it's not a long term problem. Oil is well on its way back to where it should be from a historical pricing perspective.
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where do you think oil prices will even out? and when?

btw, you work in VC?
 
#59
#59
TennNC said:
for you and allvol123:

why is this a BS bill?

why would we not do everything we can to explore harnessing every bit of energy that's available? why would we not give incentives to companies to invest capital and allow our country to utilize new sources of energy?

b/c it's not allowing extended offshore drilling? where's the bs?
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Not too mention nuclear which is much more viable than these energy sources named in the bill. Not too mention we are in a downturn in the economy and money could be better spent. Besides there is enough incentive for research and development already. Anyone who can come up with a alternative will rake in billions.
 
#61
#61
BigPapaVol said:
is this some kind of weak call for a truce? Remove your head from your arse, and dig a new trench, reload and start firing.
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love it!

what if he had challenged me to a drinking contest, shot for shot? would that be a truce or rally?
 
#65
#65
TennNC said:
How so?

I guess you disagree with a leading energy researcher at MIT. Maybe TennTradition knows him?
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I do know Richard Lester...I've taken a class under him and was going to work on his energy innovation study with him, but after meeting with him and setting things up, I had to withdraw from the project due to some unforeseen conflicts that popped up. I find him to be pretty level headed about the energy "situation" we face. I posted a link to a speech he gave to the governor's council in a thread a week or so ago...it's a somewhat long read, but expands on the quotes in this article a bit.

BPV, I think that you would appreciate his position more than a lot of academics.
While my impression is that he thinks we do face a global warming problem, one of his points mentioned in his speech is about the large uncertainty in global warming predictions and the difficulties this presents in the risk/reward that industry/governments face in tackling it.
 
#66
#66
TennNC said:
where do you think oil prices will even out? and when?

btw, you work in VC?
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I don't think they ever even out because commodities just don't do that, but I do think they'll move back to some proper inflation adjusted numbers from the 80s pricing. We went a very long time without any moves in oil pricing so we became spoiled in that the pricing kept us able to upsize our vehicles and usage patterns without feeling it. We're paying today. Additionally, the big flows of funds into commodities will forever cycle, moving prices. I do think a positive will be that many foreign governments can't continue to artificially hold price down, so demand in places like China will move in concert with pricing, as it should.

I don't work in VC, but worked with most of them at the M&A shop I was in, which also housed a merchant bank.
 
#67
#67
TennTradition said:
I do know Richard Lester...I've taken a class under him and was going to work on his energy innovation study with him, but after meeting with him and setting things up, I had to withdraw from the project due to some unforeseen conflicts that popped up. I find him to be pretty level headed about the energy "situation" we face. I posted a link to a speech he gave to the governor's council in a thread a week or so ago...it's a somewhat long read, but expands on the quotes in this article a bit.

BPV, I think that you would appreciate his position more than a lot of academics.
While my impression is that he thinks we do face a global warming problem, one of his points mentioned in his speech is about the large uncertainty in global warming predictions and the difficulties this presents in the risk/reward that industry/governments face in tackling it.
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I wasn't singling him out. I was just making the point that being in academia at even the most selective of institutions is no indicator that one is devoid of lunacy.
 
#71
#71
I think it's telling. The energy issues aren't a priority for him, look no further then his voting record.

He's like most of the U.S. Congress, they did not forsee the energy crisis coming and for McCain, it's not one of his top priorities IMO. He's never provided leadership in Congress on this issue. He simply doesn't have a background for it.
 
#74
#74
oklavol said:
I think it's telling. The energy issues aren't a priority for him, look no further then his voting record.

He's like most of the U.S. Congress, they did not forsee the energy crisis coming and for McCain, it's not one of his top priorities IMO. He's never provided leadership in Congress on this issue. He simply doesn't have a background for it.
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We'd have to conclude the same for Obama too?
 
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