Mexico Drug Wars still not our problem?

[TXA&M07]

I've been following the latest updates on the situation in Mexico lately and yesterday the Houston Chronicle reported that 3 top Mexican Drug Enforcment Agents, basically Police Cheifs, have seeked assylum in American Embassays. It also reported that throughout the recent violence several of these officials of equal importance were murdered while attempting to seek refuge in Texas.

These drug lords have basically scared the beJesus out of the top ranking guys, due to their own officers being influenced by corruption, power, money, and greed.

In short my question to you all is this. Does anyone think this will eventually become a more important issue to us here in the U.S.? It's clear that we have supported the anti-drug attempts made down there, but this is in our backyard, and is getting increasingly worse. Living here in Texas, it has become a direct issue considering proximity, and the ever popular immigration issue.

I just wondered what yall thought, as I find it a near impossible problem to solve.

 

[KB5252]

TXVOL I have a family member somewhat involved on the American end. This has been going on for 10 years being stepped up by the drug lords in the past 4 or 5. Things are critical right now. The only officers that last on the mexican end are those that are in the cartels pocket. Everyone from politicians to civilians in Mexico are being executed. From what he tells me this cartel is made up from MS13, la eme, and a few other gangs working as enforcers for the drug cartels. The biggest fear is that the problem will turn into a bloodbath when these factions go to war with each other trying push rival gangs out of the area.

 

[TXA&M07]

Well, while I appose unwarented involvment o nthe American side of the issue, I'd like to add that this is not going to be an isolated issue south of the border. As the violence and the blantent dismay of the Govermental Heiarchy falls into the hands of these criminals, the U.S. will need to do something to prevent this from spreading across the southwest anymore than it already has. I feel certain that these current candidates, while campaigning in Texas did not scratch the surface on the issue when asked about it, if in fact it was brought up.

My observation is that we might be in for another round if infact that governement gets over thrown and to be honest, I can see that happening given the power and influence that the drug industry has down there. When leading Military, Police, and Drug Officials are being gunned down along with there body guards infront of their homes, it sends a red flag up for me.

We read about that kind of thing going on in third world countries across the pond, not in our back yard.

My latest example is the Police Cheif of Ciudad Juarez was shot 60 times on his front porch along with all three body gaurds. That is not an asassination. That is a statement.

 

[KB5252]

The first 150 miles or so from the US/Mexican border is owned by the drug lords. Mexico has either been unwilling or unable to control it. If it is going to be dealt with it will almost certainly involve us to some degree. It is spilling over into our country and will get worse before it gets better. These are some of the most ruthless people you could imagine. Of those who are involved here in America, most of them keep a low profile. If they happen to see an opening they will certainly take it and you will start to see the same type tactics used against law enforcement and local government officials.

 

[TXA&M07]

El Paso and Brownsville are essentially battle grounds already. Obviously it wil continue to spread but when will it become a National issue? Many of folks joke about Texas being an extension of Mexico, but what's the solution. That wall wont fix it.

In fact, concerning this issue, building a wall would be like pulling down the window blinds to avoid seeing the tornado coming towards you house. Sure you dont see it, but it aint going away.

 

[KB5252]

El Paso and Brownsville are essentially battle grounds already. Obviously it wil continue to spread but when will it become a National issue? Many of folks joke about Texas being an extension of Mexico, but what's the solution. That wall wont fix it.

In fact, concerning this issue, building a wall would be like pulling down the window blinds to avoid seeing the tornado coming towards you house. Sure you dont see it, but it aint going away.

You are right about Brownsville. I stayed in Corpus Christie for a few months and people there told me of serious problems taking root there as well. This was about 6 years ago. The wall won't help with the drug problems but that is not it's purpose. We will need US troops at the border to fight the cartels. Special Ops would be ideal for search and destroy missions until the cartels change tactics.

 

[TXA&M07]

You are right about Brownsville. I stayed in Corpus Christie for a few months and people there told me of serious problems taking root there as well. This was about 6 years ago. The wall won't help with the drug problems but that is not it's purpose. We will need US troops at the border to fight the cartels. Special Ops would be ideal for search and destroy missions until the cartels change tactics.

Chorpus was not to that point a year ago when I was down for a bachelor party, but yeah, I can see it was headed in that direction.

Your idea on Speacial Ops deployment is logical, but I think of the fallout when it happens, or worse, when it goes array. We get some boys shot up down there on that type of deal and we'll be resurrecting Teddy Rosevelt and the Rough Riders to go fix it. Besides, which one of these up and coming candidates do you think would have the cajones to do it? I mean seriously, this little episode to those on the East coast is a "local problem" from what I can tell.

 

[TXA&M07]

It might be time to start/finish a plan of action before we end up fighting a war on two fronts, if that makes sense.?. You get what I'm saying?

 

[KB5252]

Chorpus was not to that point a year ago when I was down for a bachelor party, but yeah, I can see it was headed in that direction.

Your idea on Speacial Ops deployment is logical, but I think of the fallout when it happens, or worse, when it goes array. We get some boys shot up down there on that type of deal and we'll be resurrecting Teddy Rosevelt and the Rough Riders to go fix it. Besides, which one of these up and coming candidates do you think would have the cajones to do it? I mean seriously, this little episode to those on the East coast is a "local problem" from what I can tell.

Like I said previously wait until these hits and shootings start happening on this side of the border. It will combine with the problem we already have with illegals and bring it to the forefront. Whoever the president is this will force his or her hand. There will have to be some sort of military presence there.

 

[TXA&M07]

I'll believe it when I see it. With the overall population of South Texas becoming prodominately hispanic, (as if it wasn't that way in 1836), the spread of this type of action will undoubtedly by harboured by locals on U.S. soil.

We'll fight this fight on our own ground. I agre with your position that it will get handled, but it has been the American policy to fights our fights off of our own turf. This one will happen here if this escalates, and from what I can see, it's going to.

Mexican government officials are weak as water, and as crooked as the letter S. This will not be there problem once it crosses the Rio Grande.

 

[CovVol]

Do the words National Guard mean anything to anyone is Washington? I understand that things are getting worse in Texas and Arizona, but when I walk down the road where I work on Conyers, Ga. and I see MS-13 spray painted on the sides of trees and buildings here, border control is affecting everyone in some way, shape, form.

I dont think this would be a mission for the SPEC OP community since they are certainly needed else where. I would be led to believe that since they are called the "NATIONAL GUARD" that they would be the most ideal candidate to a mission to guard our borders since it's obvious the Border Patrol needs some help.

 

[jamesd1628]

Legalize drugs and all the drug wars virtually disappear. The so-called war on drugs is idiotic.

 

[KB5252]

Do the words National Guard mean anything to anyone is Washington? I understand that things are getting worse in Texas and Arizona, but when I walk down the road where I work on Conyers, Ga. and I see MS-13 spray painted on the sides of trees and buildings here, border control is affecting everyone in some way, shape, form.

I dont think this would be a mission for the SPEC OP community since they are certainly needed else where. I would be led to believe that since they are called the "NATIONAL GUARD" that they would be the most ideal candidate to a mission to guard our borders since it's obvious the Border Patrol needs some help.

We had National Guard troops there and all they managed to do was get shot at. They were used basically like forward observers. The cartels use gorilla tactics and would simply bypass the national guard. A quick striking force would be needed.

 

[KB5252]

Legalize drugs and all the drug wars virtually disappear. The so-called war on drugs is idiotic.

So we legalize all drugs? Cocaine and meth? If we had no consequences for the use and distribution of these drugs it would only make the problem worse. Marijuana, I could see the benefit of it being legal though.

 

[jamesd1628]

So we legalize all drugs? Cocaine and meth? If we had no consequences for the use and distribution of these drugs it would only make the problem worse. Marijuana, I could see the benefit of it being legal though.

Yes, cocaine, meth, whatever, legalize it all. Spend a fraction of the cost of the war on drugs on educating people about how bad these drugs are (similar to how things are handled with cigarettes) and I don't think there will be a significant jump in the number of heavy drug users. Those who are going to do those drugs will do them whether they are illegal or not. And by eliminating the "war on drugs", countless lives will be saved by eliminating the casualties that go along with that war. You might even end up with a lower death toll overall (i.e., more lives saved from eliminating drug war than lives lost as a result of increased drug use).

 

[babercr1]

Yes, cocaine, meth, whatever, legalize it all. Spend a fraction of the cost of the war on drugs on educating people about how bad these drugs are (similar to how things are handled with cigarettes) and I don't think there will be a significant jump in the number of heavy drug users. Those who are going to do those drugs will do them whether they are illegal or not. And by eliminating the "war on drugs", countless lives will be saved by eliminating the casualties that go along with that war. You might even end up with a lower death toll overall (i.e., more lives saved from eliminating drug war than lives lost as a result of increased drug use).

:glare: That's a very slippery slope you are starting down.

 

[CovVol]

We had National Guard troops there and all they managed to do was get shot at. They were used basically like forward observers. The cartels use gorilla tactics and would simply bypass the national guard. A quick striking force would be needed.

There simply arent enough SPECs in the US military to handle this job. They are working elsewhere doing more important jobs. Not that this aint important, it just doesnt pose as eminent a threat as say nuclear holocaust. The Army is used to geurilla warfare, they saw them quite a bit in Vietnam. It's the perfect job for the NG.

 

[KB5252]

Yes, cocaine, meth, whatever, legalize it all. Spend a fraction of the cost of the war on drugs on educating people about how bad these drugs are (similar to how things are handled with cigarettes) and I don't think there will be a significant jump in the number of heavy drug users. Those who are going to do those drugs will do them whether they are illegal or not. And by eliminating the "war on drugs", countless lives will be saved by eliminating the casualties that go along with that war. You might even end up with a lower death toll overall (i.e., more lives saved from eliminating drug war than lives lost as a result of increased drug use).

We have a big enough problem with underage drinking in this country. Alcohol is addictive enough but turn 12 and 13 year old kids on to crack, cocaine, or meth and you have ruined them for life. Very bad idea.

 

[KB5252]

There simply arent enough SPECs in the US military to handle this job. They are working elsewhere doing more important jobs. Not that this aint important, it just doesnt pose as eminent a threat as say nuclear holocaust. The Army is used to geurilla warfare, they saw them quite a bit in Vietnam. It's the perfect job for the NG.

The National guards hands will be tied not unlike the Vietnam conflict. Remind me how that fighting a limited war thing turned out in Vietnam again?

 

[jamesd1628]

We have a big enough problem with underage drinking in this country. Alcohol is addictive enough but turn 12 and 13 year old kids on to crack, cocaine, or meth and you have ruined them for life. Very bad idea.

Well, I certainly don't think that these drugs should be legal for 12 and 13 year old kids. I'm simply saying that these drugs should be treated just like alcohol and cigarettes - once you reach a certain age, it is legal. With that approach, 12 and 13 year old kids would be in no different situation than they are now in with respect to these drugs. Bottom line, I just don't believe that the government should be acting as our parent. They are horrible at it in all respects, be it social programs or outlawing drugs. How many billions of dollars per year do we as taxpayers waste on the war on drugs, and how many lives does it cost us? It is just completely self-defeating.

 

[KB5252]

Well, I certainly don't think that these drugs should be legal for 12 and 13 year old kids. I'm simply saying that these drugs should be treated just like alcohol and cigarettes - once you reach a certain age, it is legal. With that approach, 12 and 13 year old kids would be in no different situation than they are now in with respect to these drugs. Bottom line, I just don't believe that the government should be acting as our parent. They are horrible at it in all respects, be it social programs or outlawing drugs. How many billions of dollars per year do we as taxpayers waste on the war on drugs, and how many lives does it cost us? It is just completely self-defeating.

I think that is where you are wrong. Kids gain access to cigarettes because they are readily available. Legalizing would make drugs easier to get, not that they aren't already but the price would go down and be easier for them to gain access.

 

[jamesd1628]

I think that is where you are wrong. Kids gain access to cigarettes because they are readily available. Legalizing would make drugs easier to get, not that they aren't already but the price would go down and be easier for them to gain access.

To a degree, that may be true, but there are better ways to address those issue than waging the war on drugs that we are now engaged in. One would be education. Another would be making the laws regarding selling to minors severe, and actually enforcing those laws tenaciously. If someone gets busted selling alcohol or cigarettes to minors, they get a slap on the wrist. More serious drugs would have to be treated more seriously. Ultimately, the responsibility for this would rest with parents, not the government. With proper parenting, not that many teens are going to want to do a drug that they know will truly screw them up. Those who would do it anyway probably will anyway under the current system, even with the war on drugs. These things really aren't that hard to get, even for teenagers.

 

[VOLatile]

Has anyone else thought about how if we were to legalize these drugs, then there would be no difference? What company is going to manufacture and sell cocaine, meth, heroine, etc etc, knowing full well the destructive nature of such things?? The drug cartels are still going to keep producing them and fighting for control over areas.

The only affect that that would have is the availability of said drugs.

Legalizing all drugs is dumb. Marijauna? Fine, it's already readily available and the effects aren't as detrimental.

 

[TXA&M07]

James, legalizing drugs to prevent further violence created from "drug wars" is a terrible idea. You'll spend the same if not more on trying to rehabilitate the addicted population. That is a total crock of crap solution to this problem imo.

Fighting the drug problem in America starts with raising your kids right. You hit the nail on the head there.

The Government does not "raise you" unless you or your parents suck at it enough.

and splitting hairs between "lesser" drugs and "more harmful drugs" is a bad idea too. I can hear an argument all day about weed being the same as booze so on and so forth...whatever. If its harmful, which they all are, it should have the same rules applied to it.

That's why we call them "Illegal Drugs".

 

[VOLatile]

James, legalizing drugs to prevent further violence created from "drug wars" is a terrible idea. You'll spend the same if not more on trying to rehabilitate the addicted population. That is a total crock of crap solution to this problem imo.

Fighting the drug problem in America starts with raising your kids right. You hit the nail on the head there.

The Government does not "raise you" unless you or your parents suck at it enough.

and splitting hairs between "lesser" drugs and "more harmful drugs" is a bad idea too. I can hear an argument all day about weed being the same as booze so on and so forth...whatever. If its harmful, which they all are, it should have the same rules applied to it.

That's why we call them "Illegal Drugs".

I don't want pot legalized, either. But I would like cigarettes taken off the market. Not only does it harm the user, it harms everyone else around them. If I sit in a room where just one person is smoking, I start having an asthma attack. What caused me to get asthma? My parents smoking...