Michelle Obama makes a great point in her speech

#51
#51
volinbham said:
You indicate that efforts to cut welfare were akin to throwing people out of the streets.

Clinton not only slowed the growth of welfare. HE CUT IT!

Why aren't you outraged?
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Why is everyone trying so hard to change the subject from the OP. Admit the irony and move on.
 
#52
#52
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#53
#53
KoachKrab127 said:
And you aren't at all assuming that people who receive government aid are lazy and have no ambition, are you?

Do you have evidence that the majority of people who receive welfare never try to amount to anything?
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This election is a pretty good litmus test into what people really think.

And I would imagine you have never lived in a big city. I am all for helping people. Paul Ryan was helped and then he worked his tail off to get to where he is. I just think that's the minority in our society.

People want the lifestyle, but don't want to put forth the effort.
 
#55
#55
KoachKrab127 said:
I guess you missed my link earlier about how the fighter jets cost tax payers trillions of dollars, then the jets are sold to foreign countries...

And have you never heard of subsidies? Bailouts?
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I was asking about corporations - not defense contractors.

I do not consider subsidies to be taking our money. The money a corporation earns is not the governments (ours) and the corp is allowed to keep some %. Just the opposite. The earnings belong to the owner and some % of that is given to the government according to tax law. Lowering the taxes owed is not giving away "our" money - it was never "ours".

Bailouts are another story and highly infrequent (AIG, GM, Chrysler being notable examples)
 
#59
#59
KoachKrab127 said:
Tax the rich. Tell me, are the Koch brothers really going to suffer that much if they have to pay 1-2% extra in taxes? Take away the tax loopholes that allow big corporations to pay 2% in taxes (Exxon mobile).

10 Most Profitable U.S. Corporations Paid Average Tax Rate Of Just 9 Percent Last Year: Report

Stop senseless defense spending on things like jets that cost one trillion dollars and fail (The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter). Stop fear mongering and convincing ignorant people that we are not safe and need to spend more money to spy on people.

Overturn Citizens United. Get money out of politics. Stop allowing corporations to buy our politicians. This way, the politicians will represent the people, not huge corporations.
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Ok, you have covered maybe 5% of the rate of growth (assuming your tax the rich strategy doesn't backfire and decrease revenue). Where is the rest going to come from?
 
#60
#60
volinbham said:
I was asking about corporations - not defense contractors.

I do not consider subsidies to be taking our money. The money a corporation earns is not the governments (ours) and the corp is allowed to keep some %. Just the opposite. The earnings belong to the owner and some % of that is given to the government according to tax law. Lowering the taxes owed is not giving away "our" money - it was never "ours".

Bailouts are another story and highly infrequent (AIG, GM, Chrysler being notable examples)
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How are defense contractors not corporations?

Also, you asked how corporations take our money and I gave you an answer, then dismiss it because they are "infrequent."

Then, you redefine subsidies.

Subsidy: assistance paid to a business or economic sector. Most subsidies are made by the government to producers or distributed as subventions in an industry to prevent the decline of that industry

Also, what about insurance companies who will take your money for years and years, but then when you need an operation deny you coverage?
 
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#61
#61
volinbham said:
It's fake irony - it's a strawman. Ryan has not suggested ending anything that he received.
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Come on. You guys (Republicans) are always talking about people on welfare. Romney's parents were on welfare apparently. Ryan received ss benefits.
 
#62
#62
vols4sure said:
Ok, you have covered maybe 5% of the rate of growth (assuming your tax the rich strategy doesn't backfire and decrease revenue). Where is the rest going to come from?
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What I said is a start. If we see benefits from what I said, then we have to analyze where we are at that point and make decisions from there.

Of course, this will never happen because our politicians are bought.
 
#63
#63
BTW, you are a fool if you think taxing the rich will pay for everything. There is no possible way to crunch those numbers and make it work. The only way to pay for it is to tax the middle class. Dems are patently dishonest when they deny that.
 
#64
#64
KoachKrab127 said:
What I said is a start. If we see benefits from what I said, then we have to analyze where we are at that point and make decisions from there.

Of course, this will never happen because our politicians are bought.
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So just keep expanding entitlements with no end in sight and try to come up with a plan later to pay for them?
 
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#65
#65
golfballs said:
BTW, you are a fool if you think taxing the rich will pay for everything. There is no possible way to crunch those numbers and make it work. The only way to pay for it is to tax the middle class. Dems are patently dishonest when they deny that.
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Exactly. Gotta keep stashing money in Roth accounts, cause tax rates are going to be astronomical on the upper middle class at some point.
 
#66
#66
republicans are uncompassionate, heartless trolls because, unlike democrats, they are unwilling to bankrupt this nation to expand the entitlement state and hand out freebies and goodies.

that about right?
 
#68
#68
dreVol said:
republicans are uncompassionate, heartless trolls because, unlike democrats, they are unwilling to bankrupt this nation to expand the entitlement state and hand out freebies and goodies.

that about right?
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They are unwilling unless it is one of their own.
 
#69
#69
dreVol said:
republicans are uncompassionate, heartless trolls because, unlike democrats, they are unwilling to bankrupt this nation to expand the entitlement state and hand out freebies and goodies.

that about right?
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LOL @ "entitlement" programs bankrupting us. It's the defense spending and tax cuts that are bankrupting us.

And since when is social security an entitlement program? You put your own money into it and then get it back when you retire...how is that entitlement?
 
#70
#70
KoachKrab127 said:
What I said is a start. If we see benefits from what I said, then we have to analyze where we are at that point and make decisions from there.

Of course, this will never happen because our politicians are bought, and the rest are buying votes through government programs.
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Lets buy the argument for a second that everybody has been on the government benefit list (or the "You didn't build that" line)

If Romney's family took government aid, made it through hard times, and in turn took that opportunity to be prosperous (which lead them to being on the addition side of taxes instead of eating them up) at what point is citizen "X" that has received the same aid expected to crawl out and at least break even on the government roles?

The key is opportunity and what you choose to do or not do with it.
 
#71
#71
PaulieWalnuts said:
Come on. You guys (Republicans) are always talking about people on welfare. Romney's parents were on welfare apparently. Ryan received ss benefits.
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SS is not welfare - quite different. Besides, Ryan isn't looking to cut SS.

Neither is suggesting any reduction of either of these programs to even where they were at in the 30's and 80's respectively.

So the premise that these 2 guys are looking to take away the things they benefitted from simply isn't true even though it was the premise of the OP.
 
#72
#72
KoachKrab127 said:
LOL @ "entitlement" programs bankrupting us. It's the defense spending and tax cuts that are bankrupting us.

And since when is social security an entitlement program? You put your own money into it and then get it back when you retire...how is that entitlement?
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Tax cuts aren't bankrupting the nation.Defense spending is certainly an argument.

You can't balance the budget by simply raising taxes. It seems that's your solution.

Everybody acknowledged medicare is an issue, but nobody will do anything about it.
 
#74
#74
KoachKrab127 said:
How are defense contractors not corporations?

Also, you asked how corporations take our money and I gave you an answer, then dismiss it because they are "infrequent."

Then, you redefine subsidies.

Subsidy: assistance paid to a business or economic sector. Most subsidies are made by the government to producers or distributed as subventions in an industry to prevent the decline of that industry

Also, what about insurance companies who will take your money for years and years, but then when you need an operation deny you coverage?
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you separated defense contractors and corporations in general in your post. I never disagreed that defense contractors do get our money since they receive direct payment from the government.

I am not redefining subsidies - most of what are labeled subsidies are actually tax credits. It was those I was talking about.

In cases where the government actually gives money directly to corporations then they are getting "our" money.
 
#75
#75
KoachKrab127 said:
I'd love to hear your perfect suggestions.
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To start, I would raise the age of social security. Put time limits on unemployment. Cut back qualifications for disability.

As far as Medicare, end of life procedures and care are astronomical. Doctors have the incentive ($) to advise expensive procedures that may, at most extend a life a couple months. On the other hand, patients have no disincentive to turn them down. Somehow, the patients need "skin in the game" being either they have to pay a deductible for the procedure, or if they decline the procedure, their heirs get a certain % of what the procedure would have cost. This would finally make the doctors, patients, and families have a serious talk as to whether to perform a particular procedure. I realize this would be extremely controversial, but at some point we have to recognize end of life care is killing our health care system.

FYI, in 2009, Medicare paid $55 billion just for doctor and hospital bills during the last two months of patients' lives.
 
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