Minnesota Recount thread

#29
#29
TennTradition said:
One could argue that because the circle by the write-in for lizard people in the election above Senate was correctly filled in by the write-in name that the voter knew this was required to place the vote for "Lizard People".....and that by not circling in the bubble (which had been done elsewhere on the same ballot), then the intent was to vote for the only filled-in bubble.....that argument could work.
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That's exactly what I would argue. Meanwhile, challenged ballots are being removed from the pile until the State Canvassing Board can review them. As of now, Coleman is challenging more ballots than Franken (240 to 172) which means Coleman's team has removed more votes from Franken's tally than Franken has removed from Coleman's. Again, the State Canvassing Board will make the final determination on these challenged ballots later, and perhaps that is why Coleman's team is challenging more than Franken. They want to be perceived as being ahead when it goes before the Canvassing Board. That way, if they lose, they can blame it on the Democratic Secretary of State and his "partisan" canvassing board.

Meanwhile, Coleman lead has dropped to 165 (net loss of 59 since the beginning of the recount) with 22% of the vote recounted. In actuality, that lead might be even less because the Coleman camp is challenging more ballots than Franken. If this trend continues, Franken will move ahead of Coleman by 73 votes.
 
#30
#30
TennTradition said:
One could argue that because the circle by the write-in for lizard people in the election above Senate was correctly filled in by the write-in name that the voter knew this was required to place the vote for "Lizard People".....and that by not circling in the bubble (which had been done elsewhere on the same ballot), then the intent was to vote for the only filled-in bubble.....that argument could work.
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My point exactly - you have to make some assumptions which you can't guarantee are correct to count the vote. It's a very slippery slope. I could argue that the "line" one earlier in the thread looks like they crossed out Franken's name.

This particular voter tried to be cute and in doing so called his own vote into question. I say throw it out - regardless if it were Franken or Coleman.
 
#31
#31
volinbham said:
My point exactly - you have to make some assumptions which you can't guarantee are correct to count the vote. It's a very slippery slope. I could argue that the "line" one earlier in the thread looks like they crossed out Franken's name.

This particular voter tried to be cute and in doing so called his own vote into question. I say throw it out - regardless if it were Franken or Coleman.
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I would accept the argument that Franken's name was marked out (not underlined)...
 
#33
#33
The hand recount should be completed by December 5th but the final numbers will not be determined until the state canvassing board rules on the "challenged ballots" which have increased exponentially during the recount process as both sides have challenged numerous ballots which most independent observers consider to be frivolous.

Assuming that all the challenges are thrown out by the canvassing board, that would leave Franken down just 13 votes. Of course, the Canvasing Board probably won't throw out ALL challenges, so that 13 vote deficit could shift one way or the other.

Canvassing board meets on December 12th to rule on the challenged ballots. Until then, there's just not much to report.
 
#34
#34
I'd rather lose by 13 percent than 13 votes. At least if you lose by 13 percent you could let it go and move on.
 
#35
#35
it's amazing how the recount always give the democrats extra votes. you never see republican gain votes.
 
#36
#36
615 Vol said:
I'd rather lose by 13 percent than 13 votes. At least if you lose by 13 percent you could let it go and move on.
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No doubt. Same goes for the winner. When it's this close, many people (fairly or not) will have doubts about the legitimacy of the outcome. Bush dealt with that in the aftermath of the 2000 election, and I can't even imagine the outrage we would've seen if the recount had continued and Gore been declared the winner.

The stakes in this recount are so much lower than in 2000. The 2000 recount process was highly politicized from the inside out, and their were multiple competing legal and political authorities (Secretary of State Katherine Harris, Florida Legislature, Florida Supreme Court, and ultimately the US Supreme Court).

In Minnesota, there is very clear statute as to the process for recounts. Everything has been very "Minnesota nice" since the process began. No doubt, both sides are playing some hardball with the challenge ballots, but seems more like a game of working the refs than actual attempt to overturn the will of the voters.

Honestly, I'm more interested in the underlying social psychology and the general media play of the whole event. The whole process behind one candidate, their supporters, and the general public believing in a certain result based on a initial projection which turns out to be premature, or simply wrong... that's interesting to me.
 
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#37
#37
[Update]

Franken's campaign protests 133 mystery ballots from Minneapolis | StarTribune.com

An uproar Wednesday over 133 mystery ballots that may or may not have disappeared in Minneapolis became the newest controversy to roil the U.S. Senate recount.

At issue was a discrepancy between Election Day and recount totals in one of the city's precincts.

DFLer Al Franken's campaign lodged a protest over 133 votes that it said could not be accounted for during the recount, at a possible cost to him of as many as 46 net votes in his race against Republican Sen. Norm Coleman.
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This is really bad news for Al Franken if those now missing ballots are not found. Coleman (and Franken) better pray that the final margin is more than 46 votes. Otherwise it appears the "now missing" ballots will have decided the election.
 
#38
#38
notverycrucial said:
[Update]

Franken's campaign protests 133 mystery ballots from Minneapolis | StarTribune.com



This is really bad news for Al Franken if those now missing ballots are not found. Coleman (and Franken) better pray that the final margin is more than 46 votes. Otherwise it appears the "now missing" ballots will have decided the election.
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How do you lose ballots, i mean seriously?

I've heard the uproar that Republicans were responsible. It seems just as likely to me that a democrat could have done this, that way they might be able to let Reid and company decide.
 
#39
#39
KB5252 said:
How do you lose ballots, i mean seriously?
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I agree. Whether they were lost or stolen, they are gone. The state canvassing board has given them until tomorrow to find them, otherwise they say they will revert back to the original machine count from that precinct. However, while they were looking today, election workers found an additional 12 absentee military ballots that were not counted yet. Meanwhile, with the recount complete, the Franken camp now claims they have a 4 vote lead, but I don't think that includes the 12 military ballots which have yet to be included in the totals.
 
#40
#40
Stuart Smalley can go home now. The recount is 99.98% complete and he has no chance of catching up with Norm Coleman. Or so it would seem.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2008/12/022234.php

I'm happy to admit my bias here, but come on, those who consider themselves democrats, progressives, liberals or whatever have to admit that having a turd sandwich like Al Franken in the United States Senate is a bad idea and are secretly wishing he will eventually lose.
 
#42
#42
Note to Harold Ford Jr., if you want to be a U.S. Senator bad enough, move to Minnesota. How anyone could lose to these two guys is beyond me. Franken is a joke and embarasment to our political system and Norm Coleman, once a Democrat, losing to Jesse Ventura is a joke in itself.
 
#43
#43
notverycrucial said:
BTW, here are some of the challenged ballots, if anyone wants to play along at home and judge for yourself.

Challenged ballots: You be the judge

My personal favorite... "Lizard People"

lizardpeopleb.jpg
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The Lizard People ballot just came up and the challenge was rejected. The canvassing board ruled it an overvote. If you'd like to follow the events today live on the internet (with all the super nerds) -- check out TheUptake.org

edit to add video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTg55m5YIwc
 
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#45
#45
Coleman lead +63 votes and dropping.... At this rate, Franken should take the lead by the end of the day. In the end, Coleman's challenges are ridiculous. He has less than a 7% success rate so far.
 
#46
#46
I'm beginning to hope franken wins. I want to see if he can take orders from the milquetoast master, Harry Reid.
 
#49
#49
notverycrucial said:
No one takes orders from Harry Reid.
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if they don't, he goes running to Mama Pelosi to set them straight. Seriously, I thought Bill Frist was a weak kneed Senate Majority leader, but Reid makes him look like General Patton.
 
#50
#50
For the first time since the recount began, Al Franken is now ahead in the provisional count. It's difficult to know by how much exactly because we are still waiting on the reinstatement of several hundred challenged ballots which were ultimately withdrawn by the campaigns as they were deemed frivolous. So at this time, those nolonger challenged ballots are in limbo, waiting to be returned to their original status.

This afternoon, the canvassing board will meet to decide the fate of another group of challenged ballots (mostly from Coleman's campaign). The issue is whether some of these ballots may have been accidentally counted twice during the recount phase....

Also, Coleman is petitioning the MN Supreme Court to stop the Canvassing Board from certifying the election results before all... . .whatever... does anyone even care anymore?
 
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