Mississippi State game reflections

[Volfan2012]

The analysis left one important factor out, the level of the competition.
Run the stats contrasting our OOC schedule vs the conference games. Then you will have a more realistic representation of who is effective, in games against good competition that count, and who isn't.

We know that Nared is around 30 percent in conference play. She did all her damage in non conference play before Notre Dame. Russell has been very effective on offense when she gets the ball but if you counted all the fumbled passes and mis-direction passes in her direction probably would throw her down with Nared in efficiency. If you throw ten turnovers her way during a game her 65 percent shooting doesn't mean much because those ten turnovers are like 10 missed shots. That is why if you don't have a reasonable way to get it to her someone else needs to shoot we can't keep letting teams get up 15 to 20 shots more than we do in a game.
Truth is since conference play began we have been flat on defense and offense. We had to pull out a game late against Auburn and Vandy. Held on at SC after playing what has been our best conference performance. We played decent at Kentucky but they are terrible should have destroyed them.
Ole Miss coming in if that is a close game were still in a rut should win by over 20.

 

[Volfan2012]

Miss St is a really good team, playing seasoned talent and they were going to be ready and on a mission. Coming into this stretch, I thought the level of difficulty escalated in order and figured if the LVs went 2-2 with losses to the two best teams, that would be a good sign. The ND comeback was disheartening, but failing to close out a W at aTm in the final seconds was the worst misstep.

We have four ranked teams remaining on the schedule. It's not going to be a cakewalk. But we have another shot at aTm at home and could have a rematch with Miss St postseason. Lots of BB left to play and plenty of room for improvement.

I think they are going 30 and 0 in the regular season and 16 and 0 in the conference this season. I think were going 24 and 5 and 12 and 4 in the SEC.

 

[Volfan2012]

71 points is actually pretty good. Tennessee was giving up an average of 78 points to ranked teams prior to this game. They just ran into a better defensive team.

If you get on the boards and stop the putbacks that would have been around 60 still enough to beat our sorry offensive effort.

 

[LA Vol]

I think they are going 30 and 0 in the regular season and 16 and 0 in the conference this season. I think were going 24 and 5 and 12 and 4 in the SEC.

I agree that Miss St looks likely to head into the postseason undefeated. IMO, the LVs could win out the regular season or end up with 2, 3 or even 4 more losses. We have the talent, but everybody wants to beat the LVs and sometimes, the other team just wants it more.

I really don't want to lose to Mizzou, but a Cunningham-Nared matchup could go about like Vivians-Nared. Those players don't like each other and Cunningham is nastier than Nared.

 

[Darth_Vol]

KK isn't hurt; she just isn't getting playing time.

This can't be accurate. Isn't Holly seeking a redshirt for KK? If not, serious coaching malpractice! What a wasted year....

 

[Undercovervol]

I have seen nowhere indicating that KK is redshirting. mtsuraider commented on that last month and said that basically it is not happening. Kamera didn't redshirt her freshman year...
Maybe KK wants to be in school just for four years?

 

[Volfan2012]

Holly said KK is playing behind Mercedes and Cheridine so when we were playing this last four game tough stretch it was unlikely that we would see her. I think we could see her in the Ole Miss game if Tennessee gets a comfortable lead. I wouldn't look for KK to play a lot this season Holly wants Mercedes in there over 30 minutes so not a lot left after Cheridine gets hers.

 

[LA Vol]

KK isn't eligible for a medical RS. Her foot injury wasn't season-ending.

 

[mike099]

It seems like to me that Holly is rewarding bad play. Even if you have a drop off in talent by pulling MR, Nared, etc., put KK, London, Dunbar and even Harris in the game. The effort could not be any worse and you would be teaching a lesson to the starters.

 

[leejoek]

It seems like to me that Holly is rewarding bad play. Even if you have a drop off in talent by pulling MR, Nared, etc., put KK, London, Dunbar and even Harris in the game. The effort could not be any worse and you would be teaching a lesson to the starters.

Tennessee's one-on-one defense has gotten worse each year.

Can we expect a person who can't shoot to understand what a good shot is?

Holly, please don't waste our talents. Do consult Coach Rick Barnes on the art of 3-point shooting.

 

[Darth_Vol]

Holly said KK is playing behind Mercedes and Cheridine so when we were playing this last four game tough stretch it was unlikely that we would see her. I think we could see her in the Ole Miss game if Tennessee gets a comfortable lead. I wouldn't look for KK to play a lot this season Holly wants Mercedes in there over 30 minutes so not a lot left after Cheridine gets hers.

If that's true Holly is truly a coaching idiot. Unless she's injured, there is no valid excuse for KK only playing 6 games this season...

 

[gule]

have you seen anything from her that would warrant playing time?

 

[landscapingvol]

Unfortunately, Tennessee having to team up with freshmen have run
into teams with experienced players and excellent coaches in the SEC that know you well.
Gary, Vic, Dawn ( without her best player) are not ruddy-poop. Add Muffet also.
Tennessee offensive schemes are easy to pick apart and there's
only two things they perform. Throw it into the Russell and the dribble
drive of Hayes ( foul shots)which are a high percentage of your points. These schemes are being exposed and Hayes size is being
exploited.
I'm starting to believe that maybe Holly lack being the head coach.
She surely lack in-game coaching and the ability to counter-punched punch or to design something more.
Her development of Davis,Westbrook and Dunbar is starting to show.
Davis in particular has a huge arsenal but it's not being used along
with other players strengths and forte. Jamie still plays out of position and where she's playing now is futile.
Whoever taught Meme on defense should train the rest.
They suck on defense big time. Vivians torched Nared and it seemed
personal. Matador D will not do.
But here's hoping coach get it together, for there's more come in this tough conference.

Ah yes it is now the "freshman" argument to defend Holly. What was it last year? Or, the year before? One could just as easily argue that she isn't capable of winning without coaching with Pat Summit's players. UT's only real win came against a Texas team that just lost by 30 to Baylor.

 

[madtownvol]

If that's true Holly is truly a coaching idiot. Unless she's injured, there is no valid excuse for KK only playing 6 games this season...

Really, KK has generally looked pretty lost on the court whereas Green has come in and quite literally saved the day in a few games. If KK is lagging behind Green and Mercedes, why is Holly to be faulted for playing those two more?

On a somewhat related point, had Holly not done a mass substitution when the Lvs had their big lead against Ole Miss, I am sure many posters would have assailed for not being a smart coach and giving development to these other players. Once she did that and the squad lost the lead, she is of course an idiot for not keeping her core squad on the floor.

The dilemma I have with some (not all) of the Holly critiques hinge on this damned if you do/damned if you
don't logic.

 

[MsSportsGuy]

For some reason it seems to take post players, even those who are highly regarded, a year or so to adjust. Maybe most high school coaches don't know how to work with tall ladies, maybe it's a physical stamina issue but over the years I've seen very few come in as freshmen and play up to potential. I look at how McGowan and Russell have both developed. Hopefully KK will have the same type of growth. Even Griner didn't look all world her first year.

 

[PRG]

Really, KK has generally looked pretty lost on the court whereas Green has come in and quite literally saved the day in a few games. If KK is lagging behind Green and Mercedes, why is Holly to be faulted for playing those two more?

On a somewhat related point, had Holly not done a mass substitution when the Lvs had their big lead against Ole Miss, I am sure many posters would have assailed for not being a smart coach and giving development to these other players. Once she did that and the squad lost the lead, she is of course an idiot for not keeping her core squad on the floor.

The dilemma I have with some (not all) of the Holly critiques hinge on this damned if you do/damned if you
don't logic.

Holly stuck them in the game and then took all of the point guards away from them! Plus she had them trying to play man defense when the starters could not stop them in man defense either??? It took until three minutes left in the third quarter to go to a zone and guard the TWO players who made 50 of Mississippi 66 points. For you staticians that’s 75% from TWO players. So for the last twelve minutes (about 1/4 th of the game ) We finally figured out how to beat this mediocre team! JEEESSS!!! 😁

 

[1CHATTVOL]

Ah yes it is now the "freshman" argument to defend Holly. What was it last year? Or, the year before? One could just as easily argue that she isn't capable of winning without coaching with Pat Summit's players. UT's only real win came against a Texas team that just lost by 30 to Baylor.

Basketball is about matchups and scoring runs. ND almost beat Uconn. ND got torched by Louisville who got beat at home by FSU, a team outside the top 10. Are the coaches terrible?

 

[Darth_Vol]

If KK is lagging behind Green and Mercedes, why is Holly to be faulted for playing those two more?

I don't fault Holly for playing those two more. I fault her for playing KK in a third of the games the season when apparently a redshirt option was never on the table....

 

[madtownvol]

Holly stuck them in the game and then took all of the point guards away from them! Plus she had them trying to play man defense when the starters could not stop them in man defense either??? It took until three minutes left in the third quarter to go to a zone and guard the TWO players who made 50 of Mississippi 66 points. For you staticians that’s 75% from TWO players. So for the last twelve minutes (about 1/4 th of the game ) We finally figured out how to beat this mediocre team! JEEESSS!!! 😁

The line-up was odd. Evina had two fouls early and so that is the reason she was sitting. I can' t recall if Annie had 2 fouls at that stage of the game. But again, I can see using that time, with a big lead and a sense of dominance, to test some potential plan B options at PG just in case, the team had to go without Evina or Annie. On paper, the idea that Jamie or Meme could run point for a stretch does not seem that far fetched.

I agree Holly should have shifted out of the man to man sooner but Ole Miss was hitting from outside so the decision to try to make the man-to-man defense work is understandable but she stuck with it too long.

 

[madtownvol]

I don't fault Holly for playing those two more. I fault her for playing KK in a third of the games the season when apparently a redshirt option was never on the table....

Let's clarify, KK was injured during the early part of the season and that circumstance obviously was a set back to her development.

As for KK, maybe she did not want to redshirt; maybe the hope is that she can make a contribution later in the year or that she might be the emergency option if Mercedes were to be injured and someone needed to rotate in for Green. You could say that Harris should have been "red shirted." There are likely reasons why this option is not exercised that fans just don't know about.

 

[Darth_Vol]

maybe the hope is that she can make a contribution later in the year or that she might be the emergency option if Mercedes were to be injured and someone needed to rotate in for Green. You could say that Harris should have been "red shirted."

Harris is our "in case of emergency break glass" player, not KK. If she is going to make a contribution this season, Holly will need to make more of an effort to give her spot minutes. Although Green hasn't done a lot the last four games I'm not arguing she shouldn't be ahead of KK in the rotation. But KK has the much higher ceiling IMO. There is no substitute for game action, and even a few minutes here and there could pay dividends in March and next season when the frontcourt will be the biggest question mark. It also doesn't have to necessarily be either/or as Green can also rotate to the high post to spell Nared.

The other issue I've wondered... Russell has started disappearing in second halves. Nared's shot has gone to hell. Both have history of nagging injury. Maybe Holly grinding them up for almost 35 minutes a game is taking a toll? Free KK....

 

[MsSportsGuy]

Harris is our "in case of emergency break glass" player, not KK. If she is going to make a contribution this season, Holly will need to make more of an effort to give her spot minutes. Although Green hasn't done a lot the last four games I'm not arguing she shouldn't be ahead of KK in the rotation. But KK has the much higher ceiling IMO. There is no substitute for game action, and even a few minutes here and there could pay dividends in March and next season when the frontcourt will be the biggest question mark. It also doesn't have to necessarily be either/or as Green can also rotate to the high post to spell Nared.

The other issue I've wondered... Russell has started disappearing in second halves. Nared's shot has gone to hell. Both have history of nagging injury. Maybe Holly grinding them up for almost 35 minutes a game is taking a toll? Free KK....

I do think Russell is wearing down, as are probably a lot of players. This roster is good but it isn't the deepest team and those seniors have logged a ton of minutes. Fatigue may have something to do with it as it's been mainly those two leading 2 and 3 freshmen on the court. Nared has forced some shots and played out of control a few times but is still probably the best player.

Russell has taken a ton of criticism that hasn't always been deserved in my opinion. Heavy is the crown of "number 1 overall recruit" when the last few times a player got that ranking they wound up being transcendent. That just isn't her. I will say she's been much better since her surgery and has played very well in stretches the last few years when I've watched. She just isn't a very fast moving player and you can't teach speed.

 

[Volfan2012]

I do think Russell is wearing down, as are probably a lot of players. This roster is good but it isn't the deepest team and those seniors have logged a ton of minutes. Fatigue may have something to do with it as it's been mainly those two leading 2 and 3 freshmen on the court. Nared has forced some shots and played out of control a few times but is still probably the best player.

Russell has taken a ton of criticism that hasn't always been deserved in my opinion. Heavy is the crown of "number 1 overall recruit" when the last few times a player got that ranking they wound up being transcendent. That just isn't her. I will say she's been much better since her surgery and has played very well in stretches the last few years when I've watched. She just isn't a very fast moving player and you can't teach speed.

Green is better when she is the five and doesn't have to play around Russell. I would like to see Davis and Green in there together inside and Nared, Westbrook, and Hayes think they are the quickest lineup we can put on the floor.

 

[MsSportsGuy]

Green is better when she is the five and doesn't have to play around Russell. I would like to see Davis and Green in there together inside and Nared, Westbrook, and Hayes think they are the quickest lineup we can put on the floor.

I don't disagree with you but speed isn't always what wins games. I've thought for years when you face a team with better talent you cannot run with them. MSU beat UConn not because they tried to run but because they were deliberate in their play and slowed the game down (along with hitting some critical shots along with UConn having an off shooting night). The LVs have the athletes to run and can for at least part of a game but it's not speed that wins but smart play which may or may not include speed.

I'm not an expert and these are just my musings. I do hope to see the LVs towards the end of the tournament.

 

[Undercovervol]

I do think Russell is wearing down, as are probably a lot of players. This roster is good but it isn't the deepest team and those seniors have logged a ton of minutes. Fatigue may have something to do with it as it's been mainly those two leading 2 and 3 freshmen on the court. Nared has forced some shots and played out of control a few times but is still probably the best player.

Russell has taken a ton of criticism that hasn't always been deserved in my opinion. Heavy is the crown of "number 1 overall recruit" when the last few times a player got that ranking they wound up being transcendent. That just isn't her. I will say she's been much better since her surgery and has played very well in stretches the last few years when I've watched. She just isn't a very fast moving player and you can't teach speed.

I disagree that Russell and Nared's play springs from a lack of conditioning. If so, there is no excuse for this. These young women are division I athlete seniors. If they are not in shape enough to compete for forty minutes a game all season, then our training department should all be fired, frankly. There is no excuse for not playing hard or getting tired.
I think Nared and Russell struggle because of mental things holding them back. I don't think that it's any coincidence that as soon as we hit the meat of our schedule, Nared starts to struggle. Russell dissapearing in the 2nd also isn't so much to do with conditioning in my opinion. I think she loses confidence as the game progresses, or doesn't want to dominate the game like a Deshields character. Either way, "tired" is not an excuse.