More on the octuplets born in California.

#26
#26
utvolpj said:
they pretty much already do decide who can have kids using their methods because of the huge price tag on the procedure. We have friends going through it right now and it is a huge amt of money. How was this paid for when it doesn't appear she had the means?
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I believe she was able to pay for it because she has parents as stupid as her. Forgot where I read it but I think the parents lost their house due to her bills. Idiots.
 
#27
#27
lawgator1 said:
LOL, re-trapped my trap I suppose.

But let's assume that adoption is not an issue.

In fact, let's assume that she is told she is having 8 kids and they are likely going to be special needs kids, costing millions each to care for.

What then?
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A lot of ifs...

Look, the difference between a real conservative and a liberal is that conservative sfocus on preventative action and liberals want engage in responsive action. Liberals focus on AIDS/HIV treatment... conservatives focus on preventing or limiting the risk through responsible protection or limiting the number of partners/drug use or other activies that can lead to getting the virus.

Liberals focus on care for the 8 kids after they are born. Conservatives focus on preventing the situation from happening in the first place through personal accountability from the parents.

Liberals focus on the guy that wound up in a variable mortgage and lifestyle he couldn't afford. The conservative focuses on getting people to understand the way to prevent that situation is to be more thrifty and live within your means.

Liberals focus on the criminal justice system and the inequalities that may/may not be present there. Conservatives focus on crime prevention/law enforcement/deterring (capital punishment).
 
#28
#28
droski said:
it's a little vague from the article if she is a single mom. but certainly a 33 year old who already has 6 kids doesn't need 8 more. this women must have serious mental problems.
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Don't worry Droski. You can just add the millions, it will take to raise those kids, to the bailout money that you Californians are askint the rest of the country to send to you!:banghead2:
 
#29
#29
lawgator1 said:
No way. The fertility clinic does not have a duty to decide whether a patient can afford to have kids. That would be an impossible standard for them to ever meet or enforce.

My questions vis-a-vis abortion was that the uber conservatives angry that she is going to go on welfare should have to face the fact that some abortions no doubt occur out of financial considerations of having a child.

My question is how do they reconcile their pro-life views with their complaint that we've got another 8 it looks like headed for the public dole.
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A fertility clinic certainly does have ethical standards that they have to take into consideration. Helping a single woman who from all outward appearances has no real means to support a very large family have even more would be one of those consideration that should be made IMO.

And as for the question posed about abortion and complaining about the tax payer paying for these kids? I have no problem giving support to help people get on their feet, sometimes unforeseen things happen and people need help. This is a situation where the woman actively sought out to get pregnant and the consequences should be dealt with by the clinic and her.
 
#30
#30
KB5252 said:
A fertility clinic certainly does have ethical standards that they have to take into consideration.
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The consideration that Kaiser Permanente should concern itself with is as follows: the bottom line. Permanente has reported over $30 billion in revenue over the past 3 years. They are very good at what they do.

Private enterprises are not to be looked upon as beacons of social justice or the standard bearers of morals.
 
#31
#31
therealUT said:
The consideration that Kaiser Permanente should concern itself with is as follows: the bottom line. Permanente has reported over $30 billion in revenue over the past 3 years. They are very good at what they do.

Private enterprises are not to be looked upon as beacons of social justice or the standard bearers of morals.
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True, but I still think they have an ethical problem to address in situations like these.
 
#33
#33
KB5252 said:
A fertility clinic certainly does have ethical standards that they have to take into consideration. Helping a single woman who from all outward appearances has no real means to support a very large family have even more would be one of those consideration that should be made IMO.

And as for the question posed about abortion and complaining about the tax payer paying for these kids? I have no problem giving support to help people get on their feet, sometimes unforeseen things happen and people need help. This is a situation where the woman actively sought out to get pregnant and the consequences should be dealt with by the clinic and her.
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You are assuming a lot about what the clinic knew. Or what the clinic should know. Can you imagine the uproar if clinics announced that they were going to means-test potential mothers prior to giving them treatment?
 
#34
#34
lawgator1 said:
You are assuming a lot about what the clinic knew. Or what the clinic should know. Can you imagine the uproar if clinics announced that they were going to means-test potential mothers prior to giving them treatment?
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One of the first questions that is asked (I would imagine) is how many children do you have? Maybe I am off base here. I agree with TRUT ( I don't like it, but I agree) that they are not responsible to play the role of social worker but I would think the answers to some preliminary questions from her would at least raise a few eyebrows and warrant some further counseling in this instance.
 
#35
#35
KB5252 said:
One of the first questions that is asked (I would imagine) is how many children do you have? Maybe I am off base here. I agree with TRUT ( I don't like it, but I agree) that they are not responsible to play the role of social worker but I would think the answers to some preliminary questions from her would at least raise a few eyebrows and warrant some further counseling in this instance.
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Like counseling would have mattered. There are two possibilities folks have advanced here: 1) the clinic could have declined to give her the treatment, in which case there is massive criticism of them; or 2) the clinic has to pay for the kids' upbringing,m which eventually then leads the clinic to resort to #1 and its just not going to happen.
 
#36
#36
lawgator1 said:
Can you imagine the uproar if clinics announced that they were going to means-test potential mothers prior to giving them treatment?
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apparently most reputable fertility clinics do physiological testing on new clients. the theory being that the process is very taxing emotionally.
 
#37
#37
droski said:
apparently most reputable fertility clinics do physiological testing on new clients. the theory being that the process is very taxing emotionally.
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I did not know that, but it makes sense. Did this lady take such a test?
 
#38
#38
I think it would be interesting to know what this testing consists of. Also interested to know if this is an across the board mandated thing or if there are different standards set by the clinics themselves.
 
#39
#39
KB5252 said:
I think it would be interesting to know what this testing consists of. Also interested to know if this is an across the board mandated thing or if there are different standards set by the clinics themselves.
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A couple I know went through a few weeks of testing before starting the treatments. It wasn't IV but very similar.
 
#43
#43
Octuplet mom says she's done having babies
Tuesday, February 10, 2009 11:28 PM EST
The Associated Press


LOS ANGELES (AP) — The Southern California mother of octuplets who already had six other children says she's done having babies.

In an NBC "Dateline" interview aired Tuesday night, 33-year-old Nadya Suleman says the octuplets were a sign from God that she should stop having children.

Suleman also says she dreams of going back to her old life, before she had the octuplets on Jan. 26 and endured a firestorm of criticism and media frenzy.

Divorced and unemployed, Suleman told anchor Ann Curry that she still intends to go back to school and finish her master's degree.

Suleman says she'll support her children with student loans until she can find a job as a counselor after graduating in a year or two.


This woman doesn't need to be counseling anyone. I heard yesterday that two of the kids she already has have special needs and there is a strong possibility more from this new litter may have issue because of their low birth weight. This woman has serious problems.
 
#45
#45
BigPapaVol said:
this woman should be slapped at regular intervals by a gigantic human.
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I can't believe she is doing this to her parents. I really do believe she has mental issues, why else would she go through this and put her parents who are already overwhelmed through even more grief with this new litter.
 
#46
#46
of course she has mental issues. no normal person wants 14 kids by age 33 despite being unemployed and unmarried..
 
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