More than 75 LA fire fighters made more than $200,000 last year

#26
#26
utgibbs said:
And yet these forests did fine without us for so long...

I'm going to have to see some evidence for your point of view, MG. I'll be waiting.
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Fire suppression has led to less fires, causing larger fuel buildup, causing more catastrophic fires when the occur. It's scientific fact. That's what he's referring to. The normal fire regime in many North American ecosystems is fairly frequent, low intensity burns. Now we can go decades without a fire, which builds up ladder fuels and creates catastrophic crown fires.

Smokey the Bear was wrong.
 
#27
#27
gasguy98 said:
No, all forest fires are man made. Didn't you see Al Gore's movie????
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What are you talking about? No one ever claimed all forest fires are man made. If anything, man's disruption of the natural fire regime has caused problems.
 
#29
#29
gasguy98 said:
You just handed that guy gibbs his a _ _!
Not the first time, won't be the last time.
Trying to discuss issues with her is like convincing a schizo he is not King George.
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You may want to consult the real world outside the backdoor before you get caught "Factless in Seattle."

As you can see, MG has left you high and dry. With good reason too. IPOrange is right.
 
#30
#30
utgibbs said:
You may want to consult the real world outside the backdoor before you get caught "Factless in Seattle."

As you can see, MG has left you high and dry. With good reason too. IPOrange is right.
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Yes he is, and what he's saying about fires thining out undergrowth is at odds with your position. The crowd that wanted to protect the forests actually did much more damage than good. Another example from a very long list of unintended consequences.
 
#32
#32
utgibbs said:
You may want to consult the real world outside the backdoor before you get caught "Factless in Seattle."

As you can see, MG has left you high and dry. With good reason too. IPOrange is right.
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high and dry? I don't think so. IP actually reinforced my point, he just didn't go far enough in saying that it's the environmental lobby that's preventing the clearing out of underbrush, dead trees and such, the things that turn small fires into huge fires.

Environmentalists' Attempts to Save the Forest May Contribute to Fires - Associated Content from Yahoo! - associatedcontent.com

In 2003, the federal government concluded that lawsuits, usually designed to prevent logging, keep the U.S. Forest Service from being able to adequately manage American forests leading to a policy of fire management by forest fire. Having friends who study forestry, I know that the truth is way more complicated than those simple statements and allegations, but they do have a grain of truth in them.

Forest fires in general and the California fires in particular would likely have been less severe if the U.S. Forest Service were allowed to do their jobs.
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watch out gibbs, here comes the real world's pimp hand to slap you around again.

Yellowstone Forest Fire Pictures Facts Causes Clear Cuts Environmental Destruction
 
#33
#33
utgibbs said:
And yet these forests did fine without us for so long...

I'm going to have to see some evidence for your point of view, MG. I'll be waiting.
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You could actually step onto the Ag campus here at UT. I know some forestry professors who could explain this to you so you can understand it.:thumbsup:
 
#34
#34
utgibbs said:
This.

These guys might spend the summer fighting the wildfires engulfing the state without a day off.
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So hard work dictates salary now?

My grandmother worked at a plant in West Virginia her whole life. Her shift started at 5 in the morning and she would collapse when she came home. She made less than 30k per year.

She made 30K because her company had to actually make a profit and wasn't waiting on the Feds to bail them out. Somebody has to pay for this crap at the end of the day. 75K is more than fair.
 
#35
#35
Your lack of understanding is a bit startling. Those 'leftists douchebags' just might understand that particular ecosystem better than someone living on the other side of the nation.

Most of those ecosystems rely on fire to regenerate. Many of those particular plants that grow in the region require temperatures produced by fire to open and release their seed. They have done this for millions of years, and nature will not allow something as small as mankind to change that. People like you are the same types that build homes in a flood plain, and then later complain that your house got swept down river. No matter how hard we try, we're not going to stop the natural processes of this Earth. That is just fact, and history backs it up.

It is probably time to start cooperating, rather than keep fighting this losing battle. For everyone's sake, I hope average person is a little more intelligent than you, or at least slightly open minded to scientific concepts.

MG1968 said:
did I stutter?


a major contributor to the size and severity of California wildfires is the lack of undergrowth management. That lack of management is directly attributable to leftist douchebags (or environmentalist nazis) who go to court to prevent the US Forest Service from engaging in preventive measures to keep undergrowth to a minimum and remove old, dead and fallen trees.

welcome to the real world, gibbs. A place where leftists, who always come with "good intentions" inevitably do more harm than good.
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#36
#36
Shot0fClarity said:
Your lack of understanding is a bit startling. Those 'leftists douchebags' just might understand that particular ecosystem better than someone living on the other side of the nation.

Most of those ecosystems rely on fire to regenerate. Many of those particular plants that grow in the region require temperatures produced by fire to open and release their seed. They have done this for millions of years, and nature will not allow something as small as mankind to change that. People like you are the same types that build homes in a flood plain, and then later complain that your house got swept down river. No matter how hard we try, we're not going to stop the natural processes of this Earth. That is just fact, and history backs it up.

It is probably time to start cooperating, rather than keep fighting this losing battle. For everyone's sake, I hope average person is a little more intelligent than you, or at least slightly open minded to scientific concepts.
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gee, thanks for being such a condescending prick on the level of gibbs and gsvol.
 
#37
#37
Ihatethebuckeyes said:
So hard work dictates salary now?

My grandmother worked at a plant in West Virginia her whole life. Her shift started at 5 in the morning and she would collapse when she came home. She made less than 30k per year.

She made 30K because her company had to actually make a profit and wasn't waiting on the Feds to bail them out. Somebody has to pay for this crap at the end of the day. 75K is more than fair.
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That is a fair number
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#38
#38
MG1968 said:
gee, thanks for being such a condescending prick on the level of gibbs and gsvol.
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I consider myself a democrat most years. When you throw around insults based off your opinion of a single topic - expect 'the other side' to give a little bit of the same back. I guess this right here is the real problem with the country at this point. Two polarizing sides that are more interested in throwing out insults than solutions.
 
#39
#39
Shot0fClarity said:
I consider myself a democrat most years. When you throw around insults based off your opinion of a single topic - expect 'the other side' to give a little bit of the same back. I guess this right here is the real problem with the country at this point. Two polarizing sides that are more interested in throwing out insults than solutions.
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actually, in later posts, I backed up my claim and was further backed up by another poster. Perhaps you took the term "leftist douchebags" a little too personally.

For what it's worth, I'm way too smart to build on a floodplain.

Also, given what you said in your first post directed at me, complaining about the lack of civility (on an internet message board) is hypocritical at best.
 
#40
#40
I'm definitely a hypocrite. Who isn't?

I don't know you personally, just as you don't know me. Personal insults on the internet generally hold 0 credibility.

Anyway I'm off to bed. Night Volnation.
 
#41
#41
I wish some of these threads could occur over beers, face to face. We would all find more common ground I suspect.
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#42
#42
Ihatethebuckeyes said:
So hard work dictates salary now?

My grandmother worked at a plant in West Virginia her whole life. Her shift started at 5 in the morning and she would collapse when she came home. She made less than 30k per year.

She made 30K because her company had to actually make a profit and wasn't waiting on the Feds to bail them out. Somebody has to pay for this crap at the end of the day. 75K is more than fair.
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You are beginning to sound more like me everyday. :good!:
 
#43
#43
volsfan75 said:
You could actually step onto the Ag campus here at UT. I know some forestry professors who could explain this to you so you can understand it.:thumbsup:
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Is that the AG department that says nutrients must "be delivered" to the soil? :loco:
 
#46
#46
MG1968 said:
watch out gibbs, here comes the real world's pimp hand to slap you around again.
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Oh, you biyotch slapped me with your "furtrapper.org" link. Oh yes!

And let's look at a some peer-reviewed research with over 40 citations:

http://dipsydoodle.net/Forestry Papers_files/Stephens%20USFS%20fire%20stats%20IJWF%2005.pdf

And the first line from the conclusions:
Even with the large infrastructure dedicated to fire suppression, the majority of western forests managed by the USFS have experienced a significant increase in relative area burned from 1940 to 2000.
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Your talk of ecoterrorism is both infantile and Orwellian. You should be ashamed of that. As far as forest fires, you have much to learn.
 
#48
#48
funny but I did check the real world outside my backdoor when dealing with some of the fires. Interesting how much could have been saved if we had been allowed to work
 
#49
#49
IPorange said:
I wish some of these threads could occur over beers, face to face. We would all find more common ground I suspect.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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I have a feeling some would drink much more than others but we'd all have to split the check evenly
 
#50
#50
utgibbs said:
Oh, you biyotch slapped me with your "furtrapper.org" link. Oh yes!

And let's look at a some peer-reviewed research with over 40 citations:

http://dipsydoodle.net/Forestry Papers_files/Stephens%20USFS%20fire%20stats%20IJWF%2005.pdf

And the first line from the conclusions:

Your talk of ecoterrorism is both infantile and Orwellian. You should be ashamed of that. As far as forest fires, you have much to learn.
Click to expand...

That is due to more fuel build up from fire suppression. Less fires, but much bigger fires.
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