Most lopsided debate ever?

#78
#78
marcusluvsvols said:
If you're foolish enough to believe that sarcasm is the reason 3/4 of the adults in these forums can't distinguish between homonyms or use proper grammar then I can't help you. The way you speak, or in this case write, is how 90% of people get their first impression of you. Too many sell themselves short. Perhaps I'm just wrong and America is inhabited almost entirely by morons. Our president spoke ebonics last night for crying out loud...in a debate. Anyone else catch it?
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If you want to critique the writing of any poster here, you should start by breaking your posts apart with the [Enter] key. The size of the text as well as the layout of the page makes them a bit of an annoyance to read.

FTR, Americans aren't the sharpest knives in the shed.
 
#80
#80
For the whiners about Romney interrupting, Obama spoke 4 minutes longer than Romney. If Romney hadn't interrupted, wonder what that number would've been?
 
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#81
#81
tvols75 said:
For the whiners about Romney interrupting, Obama spoke 4 minutes longer than Romney. If Romney hadn't interrupted, wonder what that number would've been?
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I also believe Romney spoke many more words than Barry. Shows without the teleprompter Barry can't talk. He has long pauses and trips all over himself
 
#83
#83
volfanjustin said:
I also believe Romney spoke many more words than Barry. Shows without the teleprompter Barry can't talk. He has long pauses and trips all over himself
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There is no need for people to whine. Both candidates agreed to the format. Romney took his A game last night, I have never saw him look so good. Obama took his D game, I have never saw him look so bad.

I did not like the format, I thought it was a little odd but that did not change the outcome of the debate.
 
#85
#85
Gramps said:
There is no need for people to whine. Both candidates agreed to the format. Romney took his A game last night, I have never saw him look so good. Obama took his D game, I have never saw him look so bad.

I did not like the format, I thought it was a little odd but that did not change the outcome of the debate.
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I really liked the format, let the moderator throw out a topic then get out of the way.
 
#87
#87
lawgator1 said:
The problem that Obama (rather obliquely) was trying to make last night is that Romney's tax plan cannot possibly be revenue neutral UNLESS he raises taxes on the middle class.

That has been Obama's question about the plan for weeks now, and Romney really did not answer until last might when he started claiming that tax revenues would go up because of job creation.

Its a bit pollyanish, but tough to criticize because you don't want to look like you are being negative about job creation. I think it caught Obama off guard, and what he needed to do was point out that the wealthy and corporations have plenty of investment dollars right now, and are not investing, so the underlying assumption Romney is making to escape the inevitable math of his proposal is simply false.

Put the burden on Romney to prove that he will get enough job growth out of his plan to offset the new tax breaks. So far as I can tell, there is not reason to think it will because it is just more supply side economics from Romney, which has not been working for close to a decade at this point.
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bump

There really is no answer for this problem. Hope Obama figures out a way to communicate the issue.
 
#88
#88
volfanjustin said:
I really liked the format, let the moderator throw out a topic then get out of the way.
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I still think that the questioner should press the issue, though, when the candidate's answer is nonsensical, i.e. Romney claiming the reason his health care plan is different is because it was supported on bipartisan basis, or that it should be adopted nationally by the states.

Both of those comments deserved to be exposed as illogical, because they are. But in the end that was Obama's job and he didn't do it.
 
#89
#89
utvolpj said:
that might be too lofty a goal for someone bragging about a test they took in 7th grade
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Sorry if I came across that way. Certainly wasn't my intent. I am just amazed that with all of the technology available to aid in education our kids are getting dumber by the minute...not just in relation to the asians, but relative to our own standards. How can our test scores go down when the test is easier? I'm sure its Bush's fault in one way or another.
 
#90
#90
lawgator1 said:
bump

There really is no answer for this problem. Hope Obama figures out a way to communicate the issue.
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why you keep harping on that study I'll never know

it can absolutely be done without raising taxes on the middle class (like many of Obama's plans will do)

here's yet another example for you

the exclusion of interest on state and local bonds and the exclusion of inside buildup on life-insurance products could yield more revenue. TPC then acknowledged that repeal of these provisions would raise approximately $45 billion from high-income taxpayers, reducing any need to tax the middle class by the same amount.
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3 Reasons Romney's Tax Plan Makes Sense - Business Insider
 
#91
#91
utvolpj said:
why you keep harping on that study I'll never know

it can absolutely be done without raising taxes on the middle class (like many of Obama's plans will do)

here's yet another example for you



3 Reasons Romney's Tax Plan Makes Sense - Business Insider
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They adjusted for that. It has little effect on the multi-trillion dollar hole left over and they have reiterates that Romney's plan cannot, in a universe bound by the laws of nature and simple mathematics, work out.

It just doesn't.
 
#92
#92
marcusluvsvols said:
Sorry if I came across that way. Certainly wasn't my intent. I am just amazed that with all of the technology available to aid in education our kids are getting dumber by the minute...not just in relation to the asians, but relative to our own standards. How can our test scores go down when the test is easier? I'm sure its Bush's fault in one way or another.
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You should be more specific. It's not like Cambodians or North Koreans are whooping our ass in education.

Furthermore, who are you to say kids are getting dumber? I would argue that our early childhood education is the best it's ever been. It's high school and college that aren't so much suffering, just being lapped by other countries.

We've standardized our system too much, and begun catering to less than stellar students so everyone can SAY they received an education. So, yes... NCLB made that way worse. However, what reform have we seen since the changing of the guard? None.
 
#93
#93
lawgator1 said:
They adjusted for that. It has little effect on the multi-trillion dollar hole left over and they have reiterates that Romney's plan cannot, in a universe bound by the laws of nature and simple mathematics, work out.

It just doesn't.
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little effect? Even the TPC admitted it cut it in half once they revised. From the quote I posted

TPC then acknowledged that repeal of these provisions would raise approximately $45 billion from high-income taxpayers
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#95
#95
lawgator1 said:
In what universe is $45 billion half of trillions ?
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the trillions are a made up number. The $86bil is the burden that would supposedly be transferred to those making under $200k (yet another mystery number).
 
#96
#96
vols4sure said:
Apologies. Misinformed on that one. I thought I remember reading somewhere that he was keeping the top bracket but raising the threshold on it.

One thing I do agree with dems on is that Romney needs to be more specific on what deductions he plans to cut. I understand why Romney is not doing it (and no politician would do it), but you cannot evaluate his plan without identifying the deductions that he plans to eliminate.
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It doesn't matter what Romney's plans are. The dems are against them. Giving them details will just give them the ability to spin them. As it stands, Obama and his media have to resort to making crap up.
 
#97
#97
I really need a liberal to convince me that raising taxes always means raising tax revenue.

When Wal-Mart lowers their prices, they sell more and make more money because they sell more stuff.

When taxes are lowered, more people are hired, those people spend more money, and more taxes are gathered.

Is this rocket science or something?
 
#98
#98
azVolFan said:
I really need a liberal to convince me that raising taxes always means raising tax revenue.

When Wal-Mart lowers their prices, they sell more and make more money because they sell more stuff.

When taxes are lowered, more people are hired, those people spend more money, and more taxes are gathered.

Is this rocket science or something?
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lower taxes doesn't necessarily mean more jobs. Without going into the entire Laffer Curve debate, it's easy to agree that there is a point of diminishing returns in lowering taxes. Carried further, there is a point of disastrous income levels to the government.

Additionally, reduced taxes implies more investment in businesses, but harsh or unpredictable regulatory environments can and do keep all that capital on the sidelines. We're watching that happen today in a relatively lax taxation environment. We're seeing pending taxation shove capital overseas and into crap like gold.
 
#99
#99
BigPapaVol said:
lower taxes doesn't necessarily mean more jobs. Without going into the entire Laffer Curve debate, it's easy to agree that there is a point of diminishing returns in lowering taxes. Carried further, there is a point of disastrous income levels to the government.

Additionally, reduced taxes implies more investment in businesses, but harsh or unpredictable regulatory environments can and do keep all that capital on the sidelines. We're watching that happen today in a relatively lax taxation environment. We're seeing pending taxation shove capital overseas and into crap like gold.
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I still don;t think you can blame too much of the current idleness of investment capital on regulation. The far greater problem, in my admittedly less informed opinion than your own, is uncertainty that there will be sufficient demand to make the investment worthwhile.
 
#100
#100
lawgator1 said:
I still don;t think you can blame too much of the current idleness of investment capital on regulation. The far greater problem, in my admittedly less informed opinion than your own, is uncertainty that there will be sufficient demand to make the investment worthwhile.
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it's not a regulatory problem. It's a fear of regulatory issues and the current bank regulatory environment. The FDIC will kill a lender in a heartbeat over a business credit line. The even larger problem is the lack of clarity about total taxation and massively escalating employer expenses.

The demand side hasn't fallen apart, much to the chagrin of guys like Obama. The jobs problem is more about international competition, outsourced manufacturing and worthless younger generations than it is demand. Without demand, GDP would wither away, especially with no RE transactions to drive it some. It hasn't evaporated, which you're suggesting.
 
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