Most of you all are the ones who are jokes...

#26
#26
Most of the guys that started yesterday are players that Pearl couldn't get anything out of either. Except for Tatum they all rode the bench for most of the season.
Judge this coach on a season, NOT a Game, or even 8 games.
 
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#27
#27
calban said:
Most of the guys that started yesterday are players that Pearl couldn't get anything out of either. Except for Tatum they all rode the bench for most of the season.
Judge this coach on a season, NOT a Game, or even 8 games.
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Good point, however, why Tatum has played so much at UT is beyond me. Other than a handful of good games, what has he ever done to play soo much? He is horrible on defense and only shoots 50% or better every 10 to 12 games. THe rest of the time, he is a turnover, brick or bad defensive play waiting to happen.....
 
#28
#28
Domestic Silence said:
I'm not "anti-Martin", but the difference is Saban had already won a NC by the time he got to Bama, you knew what he could do.

Martin is an unknown.

This is what happens when you make the "risky, up and coming" hire, quick skepticism.
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Thank you that is the point I have been trying to make for awhile now.

Then to make matters worse portion of the fanbase makes him out to be the next John Wooden and when he fails they become enraged. I will chose to do as I did with Dooley and judge Martin after the season.
 
#29
#29
1985Vols said:
Good point, however, why Tatum has played so much at UT is beyond me. Other than a handful of good games, what has he ever done to play soo much? He is horrible on defense and only shoots 50% or better every 10 to 12 games. THe rest of the time, he is a turnover, brick or bad defensive play waiting to happen.....
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I agree, but what are Martin's options?
Richardson, Swiperboy, someone else?
You make the choice.
 
#30
#30
calban said:
Most of the guys that started yesterday are players that Pearl couldn't get anything out of either. Except for Tatum they all rode the bench for most of the season.
Judge this coach on a season, NOT a Game, or even 8 games.
Click to expand...

At what point in a season does it become appropriate to start judging performance? There are some really bad defensive trends with this team 8 games in, that are a continuation of trends that were glaring from Missouri State the past 3 seasons. You don't need another seasons worth of games to notice the paltry defense. It is very evident if you look objectively. I'm not saying this to suggest UT rid themselves of Martin, but I do think Martin should re-examine his defensive coaching tactics, and no, I'm not willing to sacrifice an entire season to see that happen when what he is trying to do is obviously not working.
 
#31
#31
I don't follow BBall as closely as football, but to me this loss is 100X worse than the UK football game. Is AP even a D1 program?
 
#32
#32
cncchris33 said:
At what point in a season does it become appropriate to start judging performance? There are some really bad defensive trends with this team 8 games in, that are a continuation of trends that were glaring from Missouri State the past 3 seasons. You don't need another seasons worth of games to notice the paltry defense. It is very evident if you look objectively. I'm not saying this to suggest UT rid themselves of Martin, but I do think Martin should re-examine his defensive coaching tactics, and no, I'm not willing to sacrifice an entire season to see that happen when what he is trying to do is obviously not working.
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Got me there.
I can't argue defensive trends. I was an individual sports guy and that was over 40 years ago.
This you'd have to argue with Lawvol, but we all know how that would go. If you an he could have a civil discussion on the subject, the rest of us dumbheads might learn something.
 
#33
#33
calban said:
Got me there.
I can't argue defensive trends. I was an individual sports guy and that was over 40 years ago.
This you'd have to argue with Lawvol, but we all know how that would go. If you an he could have a civil discussion on the subject, the rest of us dumbheads might learn something.
Click to expand...

I've tried. I really have.
 
#34
#34
cncchris33 said:
I've tried. I really have.
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I know. I watched the banter.
It's a shame that two guys that really seem to know the game can't argue a point civilly.
Hoping someone with a little maturity steps up.
I'd like to know more about the technical side of the defense and what's wrong and I'm sure others would too.
 
#35
#35
calban said:
I agree, but what are Martin's options?
Richardson, Swiperboy, someone else?
You make the choice.
Click to expand...

I would play McBee over Tatum. Obviously giving up some athleticism but gaining a better scorer, better ball handler, more hustle, more basketball savvy.

That would make my starting five:

Golden
McBee
McRae
Hall
Maymon
 
#37
#37
1985Vols said:
I would play McBee over Tatum. Obviously giving up some athleticism but gaining a better scorer, better ball handler, more hustle, more basketball savvy.

That would make my starting five:

Golden
McBee
McRae
Hall
Maymon
Click to expand...

I don't like playing Tatum and McRae together either. They are carbon copies of each other. Streaky shooting, oversized SGs. Same as playing Hopson and Tatum together last three years.

They should split the majority of their minutes while playing together sparingly.
 
#38
#38
1985Vols said:
I would play McBee over Tatum. Obviously giving up some athleticism but gaining a better scorer, better ball handler, more hustle, more basketball savvy.

That would make my starting five:

Golden
McBee
McRae
Hall
Maymon
Click to expand...

I'm with you on that one. Tatum can be the 6th man. He needs to shorten the bench - he promised he would play 8 or less when he came. So far he has Pearl Disease. He runs them in and out the same way. 10 guys with 7-31 minutes of PT yesterday - yet they do not play again until the 14th.
 
#39
#39
What happened to just winning, no excuses, no propaganda of who left me with what, not blaming a coach who is no longer here but won games from day 1 with his squad? Say what u will about Dooley and Martin, they have yet to earn their salaries.
 
#40
#40
calban said:
I know. I watched the banter.
It's a shame that two guys that really seem to know the game can't argue a point civilly.
Hoping someone with a little maturity steps up.
I'd like to know more about the technical side of the defense and what's wrong and I'm sure others would too.
Click to expand...

Defense - McRae is not very good with his feet and body position. He won't front them with good defensive posture and tries to block shots from behind. Skylar is a little slow, better than last year though. Tatum has to guard guys quicker than him as well. Which points out that once again we have a head coach that wants players to conform to his philosophy without having the ability to do so. If Coach Zo would work a zone into his plan for 10-15 minutes a game it would change the flow.
 
#41
#41
What a laugh, play McBee instead of Tatum. As bad as Tatum is you would be taking four steps backward with McBee. Neither one of these guys are starters any where in the SEC except here. Counzo's lack of coaching during games has been a down fall so far. Not calling timeouts to stop the stupid offensive shots or to try and get their intensity up. Have we scored yet after one of his timeouts to set up a play ? I haven't seen one yet.
 
#42
#42
Domestic Silence said:
I'm not "anti-Martin", but the difference is Saban had already won a NC by the time he got to Bama, you knew what he could do.

Martin is an unknown.

This is what happens when you make the "risky, up and coming" hire, quick skepticism.
Click to expand...

I agree with you.

Losing to an OVC school which hasn't happened in 15 years, and to one with a losing record, that is not going to go over well with your new fanbase.
 
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#43
#43
Vols4us said:
Defense - McRae is not very good with his feet and body position. He won't front them with good defensive posture and tries to block shots from behind. Skylar is a little slow, better than last year though. Tatum has to guard guys quicker than him as well. Which points out that once again we have a head coach that wants players to conform to his philosophy without having the ability to do so. If Coach Zo would work a zone into his plan for 10-15 minutes a game it would change the flow.
Click to expand...

Solid
 
#45
#45
Vols4us said:
Defense - McRae is not very good with his feet and body position. He won't front them with good defensive posture and tries to block shots from behind. Skylar is a little slow, better than last year though. Tatum has to guard guys quicker than him as well. Which points out that once again we have a head coach that wants players to conform to his philosophy without having the ability to do so. If Coach Zo would work a zone into his plan for 10-15 minutes a game it would change the flow.
Click to expand...
Sounds logical.
 
#46
#46
cncchris33 said:
At what point in a season does it become appropriate to start judging performance? There are some really bad defensive trends with this team 8 games in, that are a continuation of trends that were glaring from Missouri State the past 3 seasons. You don't need another seasons worth of games to notice the paltry defense. It is very evident if you look objectively. I'm not saying this to suggest UT rid themselves of Martin, but I do think Martin should re-examine his defensive coaching tactics, and no, I'm not willing to sacrifice an entire season to see that happen when what he is trying to do is obviously not working.
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This isn't a challenge, just an honest question, you might have an opinion on.
If Martin's defense has been so full of holes, how did he get the reputation for putting hard nose tough defenses on the floor?
I mean that's all we heard when he was hired.
Where did the rep. come from?
 
#47
#47
calban said:
This isn't a challenge, just an honest question, you might have an opinion on.
If Martin's defense has been so full of holes, how did he get the reputation for putting hard nose tough defenses on the floor?
I mean that's all we heard when he was hired.
Where did the rep. come from?
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It's more of a fool's gold reputation. The fact he came from the mean streets of East St. Louis, he beat cancer, he came from the Gene Keady coaching tree from Big Ten Purdue, and he pumped the fanbase full of sunshine in his press conference talking about how his players would play sound defense or they would sit. In reality, there was never any statistical substance to back up that reputation. His teams finished middle-of-the-pack in the conference in most defensive categories.

He may turn that around as he gets his own players in the program, but history suggests that his teams are going to be average, at best, defensively. My frustration is his own self-admittance that this team needs to improve defensively, yet his own reluctance to change what they are doing defensively. I hope he changes something, because what we are doing isn't working.
 
#48
#48
calban said:
This isn't a challenge, just an honest question, you might have an opinion on.
If Martin's defense has been so full of holes, how did he get the reputation for putting hard nose tough defenses on the floor?
I mean that's all we heard when he was hired.
Where did the rep. come from?
Click to expand...

The Pearl haters filled the threads with all this defense
promotion. Go back and read their post as their are lots of them praising CCM's defensive genius.
 
#49
#49
knowthevols said:
The Pearl haters filled the threads with all this defense
promotion. Go back and read their post as their are lots of them praising CCM's defensive genius.
Click to expand...
I know what you're saying and who you're talking about, but.
If you read the blogs on Cuonzo and listen to the guys calling the games,they all talk about his hard nose defenses. the reputation was there long before we started or rather have tried discussing it on this board.
I'm trying to find out where the rep came from if the defense we're watching is the same he had at MS.
We do know that some of our guys weren't playing for Pearl because they didn't play D.
Evidently, they still aren't and we're left with the option of benching them and playing defensive minded guys that don't score points.
 
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