Most Over/Underrated Vol Coach

#26
#26
Brave Volunteer said:
Yeah but thats...kind of a big deal LouderVol. It's something Majors never did here, and Fulmer won it with his own players! Majors might have left Fulmer a strong program, but that national championship roster was all of Fulmer's recruits. Not saying Fulmer isn't overrated in certain aspects, but having a natty vs not having one is a pretty big differentiator!
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just because he is "overrated" doesn't mean he was necessarily "bad". people just like to treat him like 96-98 was reflective of his entire tenure. As 05 pointed out, there was a clear drop off.
 
#27
#27
LouderVol said:
just because he is "overrated" doesn't mean he was necessarily "bad". people just like to treat him like 96-98 was reflective of his entire tenure. As 05 pointed out, there was a clear drop off.
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I think labeling Phil has "overrated" also has to do with his tenure as AD, which was an unmitigated disaster.

If you wanted to say that his overall tenure at Tennessee, in all capacities, is kind of mixed, I think that is fair. Even though he did win our only modern era national title. You've got the first half of his tenure as HC, which was great, but you've got to balance it with the second half of his HC tenure/the condition of the program when he left, plus his time as AD.
 
#28
#28
#1fulmerite said:
Who is your most Overrated Vol Coach?

Who is your most Underrated Vol Coach?


For me, overrated has to be Trooper Taylor.

For me, Underrated has to be Ken Donahue.

As our RB coach, he never seemed to develop any of our guys. I know Houston and Riggs both ran for a grand each during one season but, it seems like he coached them to get tackled and fall sideways. Other than whooping and hollering and twirling a towel for attention, we could have had better.

Donahue gave us some good times and some good games! His D gave us the Sugar Vols and that Sugar Bowl win. Everyone seems to forget at that awesome’87 season and how important his D was. Majors made him the scapegoat of that ‘88 season but, he was good till opposing coaches figured out how to scheme his defense.

What are your two choices volnation?
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Might agree with Trooper (I think his energy and hype on the recruiting trail were his strengths)...For the ones who knew Ken Donahue and saw his commitment to the "details" ...He definitely was not underrated. Ken never cared one-bit what others thought of his abilities (it would take time away from his preparation of the next opponent for him to care) but coached as if every game was his last game. Loved talking football with that man! If I had to name one coach in the last 50 years who might be underrated....Larry Lacewell as DC for the Vols in early 90-92. IIRC he had a heart condition and left Vols after heart surgery but eventually went to Cowboys in the scouting department (very little stress)
 
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#29
#29
pimo1 said:
You do know what you point out as a knock on Fulmer is true of EVERY hall of fame coach ever? All great coaches had great staffs and great players lol. Name a great coach that didn't have a great staff and great players?

It is literally the staff and players job to carry the head coach.

It is the Head coaches job to enable the staff and players.

Fulmers downfall was really bad hires after losing key staff. He was never able to replace Cut.
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I humbly disagree. Why do you think it’s the staff’s job to carry a head coach. Nick Saban carried his staff and taught his players. He lost 4-6 coaches a year and never missed a beat. CFP couldn’t coach his fair/good players to greatness and held back his assistants. He could recruit but he was afraid of letting his assistants look better than him. That was his downfall. He also took advantage of CJM when he was ill. I can’t give him a pass for that. Go Vols.
 
#30
#30
overrated,Bill Battle-Had great players from Dickey first couple of years,didn't recruit very well and lots of "team"inner problems.
underrated-John Majors,-He inherited a team with almost no talent,depth or chemistry.Had no transfer portal or recruiting advantage to begin with.
 
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#31
#31
I find it funny that we can simultaneously be critical of Fulmer for retaining a great staff and then turn around and get pissed at Heupel for not firing guys to improve his staff. 🤔
 
#34
#34
jacksonvol24 said:
I humbly disagree. Why do you think it’s the staff’s job to carry a head coach. Nick Saban carried his staff and taught his players. He lost 4-6 coaches a year and never missed a beat. CFP couldn’t coach his fair/good players to greatness and held back his assistants. He could recruit but he was afraid of letting his assistants look better than him. That was his downfall. He also took advantage of CJM when he was ill. I can’t give him a pass for that. Go Vols.
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What are you smoking dude? Saban was a DB coach. he coached linebackers his first couple years then DB's and DC for the next 10 before becoming a head coach No head coach coaches all the players lol, first, it is physically impossible second he is not qualified. There might have been times when he got involved with DBs and linebackers maybe even some on the line but trust me Saban has never coached up a QB or anyone on the offense. Early on in his career he likely had more day-to-day but head coaches are mostly observing and coaching through their assistants.

Do you have any idea how many people are on a football team? There is a reason that, especially on, defense position groups are often split. Often you'll see a safeties coach and a corners coach, inner and olb coaches. The head coach has most of his interactions with the coordinators who then are over the position coaches... its a chain of command dude. What you're describing is like a General going out and running training drills... it does not happen. They have many other duties.

A head coach's job (football) is mostly logistics. Similarly to baseball. Basketball coaches can get more involved because the team is smaller. Trust me most head coaches do not know every member of their teams outside of names and positions maybe. To coach kids you have to get to know them. At the high school level coaches have more hands-on because of 1 smaller team, 2 fewer responsibilities, 3 smaller staff. Even at that level, the head coach is totally dependent on his assistants and rarely know all the kids in the team very well. The stories you hear about kids talking about how hands-on their head coach was.. its because those kids were special cases. Either they were standout athletes or people he took an interest in for some other reason but the head coach literally does not have time to spend directly coaching players. His job is Game planning, personnel moves, fundraising, glad-handing, PR, recruiting. A head coach is 60% manager 40% salesman.
 
#35
#35
Doberman said:
Overrated: Bob Shoop

Underrated: Justin Wilcox and Jon Jancek
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I thought Shoop would be good enough to make our defense better. I wonder why he thudded here. I've never heard a definitive reason.
Jancek was better than I thought at the time. I never believed his dismissal would matter. It did.

Wilcox had very good defenses here. I thought losing him would hurt. It did. As slim as those two offenses were, an average offense playing with those two defenses would have won 8-9 games.
 
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#36
#36
pimo1 said:
What are you smoking dude? Saban was a DB coach. he coached linebackers his first couple years then DB's and DC for the next 10 before becoming a head coach No head coach coaches all the players lol, first, it is physically impossible second he is not qualified. There might have been times when he got involved with DBs and linebackers maybe even some on the line but trust me Saban has never coached up a QB or anyone on the offense. Early on in his career he likely had more day-to-day but head coaches are mostly observing and coaching through their assistants.

Do you have any idea how many people are on a football team? There is a reason that, especially on, defense position groups are often split. Often you'll see a safeties coach and a corners coach, inner and olb coaches. The head coach has most of his interactions with the coordinators who then are over the position coaches... its a chain of command dude. What you're describing is like a General going out and running training drills... it does not happen. They have many other duties.

A head coach's job (football) is mostly logistics. Similarly to baseball. Basketball coaches can get more involved because the team is smaller. Trust me most head coaches do not know every member of their teams outside of names and positions maybe. To coach kids you have to get to know them. At the high school level coaches have more hands-on because of 1 smaller team, 2 fewer responsibilities, 3 smaller staff. Even at that level, the head coach is totally dependent on his assistants and rarely know all the kids in the team very well. The stories you hear about kids talking about how hands-on their head coach was.. its because those kids were special cases. Either they were standout athletes or people he took an interest in for some other reason but the head coach literally does not have time to spend directly coaching players. His job is Game planning, personnel moves, fundraising, glad-handing, PR, recruiting. A head coach is 60% manager 40% salesman.
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If you have to write that many words….who are you trying to convince? I got through the first paragraph and quit reading. Okay okay. You are right.
 
#38
#38
Underrated- Dickey was before my time, but history tells me he took over a declining program and turned them into a national championship contender in only a few years. Had he stayed, he might have become a legend second only to Neyland.

Overrated - I can see Fulmer and Majors both in this category because they both lost some games they had no business losing. However, I think Kiffin edges them out. One 7-6 season, big deal. People still talk about wanting him to come back. I don’t get it
 
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#39
#39
Overrated - every coach we’ve had since 98 who didn’t win a National Championship that because that is underachieving our standards, since we SHOULD win it all every year!
 
#44
#44
jacksonvol24 said:
I humbly disagree. Why do you think it’s the staff’s job to carry a head coach. Nick Saban carried his staff and taught his players. He lost 4-6 coaches a year and never missed a beat. CFP couldn’t coach his fair/good players to greatness and held back his assistants. He could recruit but he was afraid of letting his assistants look better than him. That was his downfall. He also took advantage of CJM when he was ill. I can’t give him a pass for that. Go Vols.
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This is ridiculous. Nick Saban is a once in a lifetime exception to the rule. It's INCREDIBLY unfair to criticize Fulmer's coaching career by comparing him to the greatest to ever do it! In the pantheon of coaches to ever coach major college football, CPF is NOT overrated! He's the 2nd winningest coach of all time at UT, the only head coach to bring us a National title in the modern era, and a first ballot college hall of famer. Saying he's overrated is just inaccurate.
 
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#45
#45
jacksonvol24 said:
Head Coaches….

Overrated: Phillip Fulmer. He had great assistant coaches around him that carried him. He also coached when (other than Spurrier) the SEC wasn’t loaded with great coached teams week end and week out. He had great players but couldn’t win like he should have. In reality, he underachieved with one NC. He had teams that should have won at least 3 NC. He also refused to change.

Underrated: Johnny Majors. He came back to Tennessee when we needed him. He brought us back to relevance and had it rolling before an assistant coach made a play for his job. Coached hard, recruited hard and worked hard for every Tennessee fan. Will always be top 3 coaching greats on the Hill for me. Go Vols.
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Agree with the Fulmer being overrated for sure
 
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