My previous comparison of Cuonzo and Dools

#26
#26
lostsheep said:
Didn't Golden get into 'trouble' last year? Isn't that why he's not on the team now? Oh...I guess the Martin apologists will say he was a 'Pearl' player, so it really doesn't count, right??
Click to expand...

When has a Martin player gotten arrested for drugs and guns or anything? And if they did do you really think they would come back like Pearl let his guys? I don't. Trae was not charged with anything and no problems to the program. I don't think it is the same. He is still NCAA eligible, we weren't punished and no police involved.
 
#27
#27
k-town_king said:
When has a Martin player gotten arrested for drugs and guns or anything? And if they did do you really think they would come back like Pearl let his guys? I don't. Trae was not charged with anything and no problems to the program. I don't think it is the same. He is still NCAA eligible, we weren't punished and no police involved.
Click to expand...

No problems to the program? It appears to me that Golden leaving has created a big problem for the team & program this year.

Whether he was arrested or charged, he is out of the program due to something that took place outside of the team while on his own time...which is what happened with the guys you reference on Pearl's team. If we're going to hold Pearl accountable for those guys actions, it's only fair to hold CCM accountable for Golden & Yemi's actions.
 
#28
#28
BTW...didn't Buzz run a 'clean' program? Didn't Wade run a 'clean' program? Are we down to arguing that CCM > Pearl because he recruits 'nice' kids??
 
#29
#29
lostsheep said:
BTW...didn't Buzz run a 'clean' program? Didn't Wade run a 'clean' program? Are we down to arguing that CCM > Pearl because he recruits 'nice' kids??
Click to expand...

No thats not what I'm saying. That was in response to posters saying how Martin was embarrassing us off the court and not representing the university well.

I say how is that and point out that Martin has represented us well and we have been a clean program. Then someone changes the point and talks about how being clean doesn't win games. Well duh.
 
#30
#30
k-town_king said:
When has a Martin player gotten arrested for drugs and guns or anything? And if they did do you really think they would come back like Pearl let his guys? I don't. Trae was not charged with anything and no problems to the program. I don't think it is the same. He is still NCAA eligible, we weren't punished and no police involved.
Click to expand...
Good grief.
What's with the Bruce sucked attitude?
I wasn't even one of his fans, but I know that he did more for UT basketball than anyone in 20 years of previous history.
He didn't just win and make NCAA tournaments.
He filled seats in what had been a half empty forum.
He made a dead program into a Media Darling that everyone in the country knew.
Bruce was good for TN. Get off the soap box and find some one else to degrade.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people
#31
#31
lostsheep said:
Didn't Golden get into 'trouble' last year? Isn't that why he's not on the team now? Oh...I guess the Martin apologists will say he was a 'Pearl' player, so it really doesn't count, right??
Click to expand...

I may be wrong, but wasn't the Golden an issue of something he did prior to Martin being here that either continued or at least became known after Martin was hired? If that's the case, it is very hard to blame Martin for this.
 
#32
#32
whobethis16 said:
I may be wrong, but wasn't the Golden an issue of something he did prior to Martin being here that either continued or at least became known after Martin was hired? If that's the case, it is very hard to blame Martin for this.
Click to expand...

Good point...but one could also argue the case that the behavior that got the guys arrested while Pearl was the coach was something they did prior to Pearl coaching them and it just 'continued.'

Now...that would be a stretch...just saying it could be argued.

Look...bottom line, I'm not arguing Pearl's guys were better character guys than Martin's. IMO, it's moot to argue the point. These guys are paid big $ to win ballgames, not produce choir boys...as long as that's the case, you're going to continue to see the occasional arrest or kid kicked off the team. However, don't bring that as an argument as to why CCM is doing better than Pearl did here.
 
#33
#33
whobethis16 said:
I may be wrong, but wasn't the Golden an issue of something he did prior to Martin being here that either continued or at least became known after Martin was hired? If that's the case, it is very hard to blame Martin for this.
Click to expand...

Not sure of the timeframe on the Golden situation, but Yemi being accused of rape happened on his watch. Agree with a previous poster that said if something does happen with a player on CCM's watch then the player is likely outta here.
 
#34
#34
Lefteye said:
Not sure of the timeframe on the Golden situation, but Yemi being accused of rape happened on his watch. Agree with a previous poster that said if something does happen with a player on CCM's watch then the player is likely outta here.
Click to expand...

Yes, that one did. However, with all that happened there, it seems that the young lady was just looking for attention. But yes Yemi was under Martin.
 
#35
#35
calban said:
Good grief.
What's with the Bruce sucked attitude?
I wasn't even one of his fans, but I know that he did more for UT basketball than anyone in 20 years of previous history.
He didn't just win and make NCAA tournaments.
He filled seats in what had been a half empty forum.
He made a dead program into a Media Darling that everyone in the country knew.
Bruce was good for TN. Get off the soap box and find some one else to degrade.
Click to expand...

I liked Bruce. I would support bringing him back. I didn't say Bruce sucked. I'm just making a point to those claiming Martin is so bad off the court. How can you say he is bad off the court but Bruce wasn't? He and his players did more to embarrass UT than anything Martin or his players did.
 
#36
#36
CDD was the worst football coach in TN history. CCM is not even close to that level of incompetence for the basketball program. Therefore, the comparison between the two aren't even in the same galaxy.

CDD lost to UK! If you remember correctly, UK had to play a WR at QB during that game.
 
#37
#37
calban said:
Good grief.
What's with the Bruce sucked attitude?
I wasn't even one of his fans, but I know that he did more for UT basketball than anyone in 20 years of previous history.
He didn't just win and make NCAA tournaments.
He filled seats in what had been a half empty forum.
He made a dead program into a Media Darling that everyone in the country knew.
Bruce was good for TN. Get off the soap box and find some one else to degrade.
Click to expand...

And got us our first #1ranking, though short lived..
 
#38
#38
k-town_king said:
Underachieved by whose standards? Delusional fans who act like he inherited anybody that had done anything. The media saw the mess Pearl left. We were picked to finish at the bottom of the SEC. ll of 12. We finished number two, way above projections both year. Beat the defending NC both years. This year we were not a top 25 team. We are on pace for the NCAA. How is that underachieving?

Recruiting? He got a Five star both his first two years at UT. That is pretty good for UT. This class is alright but not great. He has not recruited well in the post besides Stokes.

Development? No one he inherited averaged more than 3 points besides Tatum who was a sr that averaged 8.8. He turned Mcrae into an all SEC 17-20 point performer. Took Maymon from a 2 points a game player to a double digit scorer. Stokes has gotten better every year. J Rich has made strides. Pearl had players who never got better and some that did. Same with Martin.

Marketing of program, public relations, individual representative of the university, etc. Where has he failed at this? He has represented UT very well off the court. I don't get what people mean when they say this. Give me an example of him making UT look bad. Martin has done nothing but great things off the court. His players don't get in trouble like Pearl's. Academics are top-notch.
Click to expand...

I would never compare CCM to DD. BUT ...

My perception, as an Alumni who has been around since crazy Ray's days, is that CCM has underachieved.

Yes, in CCM's 1st year, we ended up second in the conference, seeded #2 in the SEC Tourney, but we promptly lost to #7 seed (Ole Miss).

If his development of our players is so great and he is recruiting 5* players, why have we yet to make the NCAA under CCM? And our performance (or lack thereof) in the NIT highlights it even more ... 2013 NIT - seeded #2 and lost 1st round to the #7 (Mercer); 2012 NIT seeded #1 and lost 2nd round to #4 (MTSU).

CCM is a high integrity person, but too introverted (IMO). As an alumni living out-of-state, I have not seen any evidence of his active marketing (selling) of the program or any outward public relations. Very few non-SEC people that I've dealt with even know who our Men's BB coach is (and he is on his 3rd year). When CBP was the coach, I never had to tell anyone. So I think he has underachieved from a marketing and PR perspective.

Even though our attendance is still ranked pretty good, actual paid attendance has dropped year-to-year.

If I were evaluating him, I would say he has not met all of his performance objectives and would give him a poor job performance rating.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#39
#39
Poppa T said:
I would never compare CCM to DD. BUT ...

My perception, as an Alumni who has been around since crazy Ray's days, is that CCM has underachieved.

Yes, in CCM's 1st year, we ended up second in the conference, seeded #2 in the SEC Tourney, but we promptly lost to #7 seed (Ole Miss).

If his development of our players is so great and he is recruiting 5* players, why have we yet to make the NCAA under CCM? And our performance (or lack thereof) in the NIT highlights it even more ... 2013 NIT - seeded #2 and lost 1st round to the #7 (Mercer); 2012 NIT seeded #1 and lost 2nd round to #4 (MTSU).

CCM is a high integrity person, but too introverted (IMO). As an alumni living out-of-state, I have not seen any evidence of his active marketing (selling) of the program or any outward public relations. Very few non-SEC people that I've dealt with even know who our Men's BB coach is (and he is on his 3rd year). When CBP was the coach, I never had to tell anyone. So I think he has underachieved from a marketing and PR perspective.

Even though our attendance is still ranked pretty good, actual paid attendance has dropped year-to-year.

If I were evaluating him, I would say he has not met all of his performance objectives and would give him a poor job performance rating.
Click to expand...


Ok I respect your opinion. At least you articulated what you don't like off court.

But I would say as far as him not making it. He had a rebuild to do. Tatum was the only player he got that averaged more than 3 points. He got two five stars but one was hurt even before he got here and is not playing. I think Martin has rebuilt and we will make it this year. As far as you talking about us losing as a 2 seed that was still a good year coaching. We were projected to be a 11 seed before the year. He overachieved with a gutted roster and people seem to forget that.
 
#40
#40
k-town_king said:
Underachieved by whose standards? Delusional fans who act like he inherited anybody that had done anything. The media saw the mess Pearl left. We were picked to finish at the bottom of the SEC. ll of 12. We finished number two, way above projections both year. Beat the defending NC both years. This year we were not a top 25 team. We are on pace for the NCAA. How is that underachieving?

Recruiting? He got a Five star both his first two years at UT. That is pretty good for UT. This class is alright but not great. He has not recruited well in the post besides Stokes.

Development? No one he inherited averaged more than 3 points besides Tatum who was a sr that averaged 8.8. He turned Mcrae into an all SEC 17-20 point performer. Took Maymon from a 2 points a game player to a double digit scorer. Stokes has gotten better every year. J Rich has made strides. Pearl had players who never got better and some that did. Same with Martin.

Marketing of program, public relations, individual representative of the university, etc. Where has he failed at this? He has represented UT very well off the court. I don't get what people mean when they say this. Give me an example of him making UT look bad. Martin has done nothing but great things off the court. His players don't get in trouble like Pearl's. Academics are top-notch.
Click to expand...

If you honestly think Cuonzo turned McRae into the player he is you have no clue about basketball. McRae would do what he has done at almost any school in the country.
 
#41
#41
k-town_king said:
No thats not what I'm saying. That was in response to posters saying how Martin was embarrassing us off the court and not representing the university well.

I say how is that and point out that Martin has represented us well and we have been a clean program. Then someone changes the point and talks about how being clean doesn't win games. Well duh.
Click to expand...

You do realize why Yemi was kicked off dont you?
 
#43
#43
whobethis16 said:
You do realize he was immediately removed from the team even though the charges were dropped?
Click to expand...

Thats not true, the team was aware of the incident at the time it happened in feb. Charges were not pursued bc the police didnt think they could prove the case. Two months later after Yemi signed and agreed to the order of protection sought by the victim did he get removed from the team.
 
#44
#44
The only comparison is Dooley never led his team to a Bowl game and CCM has not yet led UT to a NCCA Tourney game.
 
#47
#47
k-town_king said:
I don't think he has done great every year. He did great his first year. He did have a dumpster fire. NCAA sanctions looming. His top returning player was Tatum who averaged less than 9 points. His next highest was Trae Golden at 3 points. Have people forgotten we were picked to finish 11 of 12 in the SEC? He finished 2nd and won some SEC COTY awards. With that weak team finished with the same record Pearl had the year before with a team with ten times the talent any Martin team has had. The reason we were picked so low is Pearl left a mess and no impact returners.

Progress? We average more points , have a better RPI , and more wins atm than the first two year at the same point. We are in or on the bubble right now. The first two years we were at or below .500 right now. We were in need of a huge push to even be on the bubble. That is progress.

Development? If Maymon is woeful now than what was he under Pearl when he averaged 2 points? Before the injury he was our leading scorer. He still is a double double threat. His knee has hurt his average though. Before Martin McRae averaged 1.8 points now 18.5. He developed. Stokes went from 9.5 pts and 7.5 rebs to now 13.6 pts and 9.9 rebs even while facing constant doubles. He developed. I'm sure some expect him to average 20 though so if he developed enough is debatable.

I definitely don't think he has done great or been perfect. He did well the first two years considering what Pearl left behind. People should be realistic. It's a reason no one picked us top 25 the last three years. If we make the NCAA its a good year. I just think its crazy how people claim we have top 15 talent when just a couple of seasons ago we were picked 11 of 12 and had no good players back. If our talent is so great that means Martin developed them or he has recruited well right? He has tried to fix the Pearl mess. He got a 5 star player both his first two years. Won more than he was supposed to.

He should make it this year because he did develop and recruit players. But this is the first year he is expected to make it. I think we will, others don't. But lets not act like he underachieved his first two years.
Click to expand...

He didn't inherit a squad that had played a lot but once Stokes came on board he did have a 4 star or a 5 star at every position.
 
#48
#48
k-town_king said:
Thats about the same as going to the NIT.
Click to expand...

And yet our lord and football savior, butch jones, couldn't do it against an easier schedule with more talent. Just saying. Hell even dooley's close calls were more impressive, should've won @ LSU is much better than should've won against UGA.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top