My takeaway: Can we win a close game? Just one?

#1
utfan72408

utfan72408

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#1
I don't want this to be a cliche post-game reaction thread. And I am only making this thread because I haven't seen this addressed very much in the other ones.

Take a look at our schedule and results this year. Show me a close win. Show me a win where we really scratched and clawed and grinded out a tough win. There isn't one. I mean.... Mississippi State? Kinda? I guess? I didn't watch that game, don't know what it was like. But they are beyond awful, so how much credit should we really get for that one?

Anyway, look.

At Vandy.
Vs Texas A&M.
At Texas A&M.
Vs NC State.
At Wichita State (yes, it counts; we were down 2 with 5 minutes left).
At Kentucky.
Vs Florida.
At Xavier.
Vs Missouri.

Catch my drift? We were in all of those games, with legitimate chances to win. We are just SOFT as hell. We can't respond when teams hit us in the mouth. We can't EVER come through in a close game. We **** ourselves every single damn time. Just like what you just saw against Florida. Regardless of the caliber of the opponent, that's what we do at the end of games. Lose all composure. Not very reflective of the experience we have. It's alarming.

Almost all our wins are blowouts! Jeez! And the ones that aren't blowouts were still fairly comfortable wins. Wins in which we didn't really feel pressure near the end.

Last year we had a couple of nice, big-time grind-it-out wins. Florida, Missouri, at A&M. This year? None. Soft. Soft soft soft.

That's why despite the fact that we are supposedly playing "better" than we have, I am still skeptical of whether we'll make a run in the tourney. Because if we get in a close game, what's going to happen? If we grab an early lead (like today), and our opponent claws back, what's going to happen? When we inevitably get hit in the mouth, what's gonna happen?

This is a big reason why I'm still not really a big Martin fan. Everyone else around here seems to have done a big 180 since we blew out Mizzou and those others. Not me. Let's see us grind one out first.

All right, this was lengthier than intended. And maybe slightly redundant. Sorry about that. But I'd love everyone's thoughts! Do y'all agree or disagree?
 
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#5
#5
Yeah this is actually a really good point. We won't have many opportunitys to blow out teams in this tournament. So as much as a vol fan as I am, all these people thinking we can make a deep run, should be looking at those stats. I hate to say it, but generally the only blowouts happen in the first round, maybe second, but as an 11 seed we wont have a great opportunity to play games where we blow a team out. If we make a deep run, it's going to be a lot of close games, and this team hasn't shown strength in that area.

On a seperate note, I will say, there were too many times where we had a few seconds left on the shot clock and the ball were in players hands who weren't named jordan mccrae. that is wrong. Also mccrae passed it out to other people when the shot clock got low, that really scared me. He should be the only other player with the ball in his hand when the shot clock is low outside of the paint. Not j rich, not moore and definitely not maymon from nearly the 3 point line.
 
#6
#6
1985Vols said:
Jordan wasn't to "clutch" today. Missed pretty much everything he threw up except 1 3 late
Click to expand...

I agree. That's pretty much what I meant. We need some other guys to step up when Jordan is not getting it done. I miss our old 3 point shooters. Loften, JJ, Chism...
 
#7
#7
would help if the coach exhibited 1 iota of backbone with the refs to set an example. we get called for bad things late in the game because our coach doesn't work the refs. it's embarrassing how freaking passive he is.
 
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#8
#8
This WAS a choke. As soon as the Gators cranked it up a notch midway through the second half, the Vols started playing nervous and scared. That's the definition of a choke.
 
#9
#9
The record speaks for itself. I don't believe it is because the team is soft. I believe it's because we can't play offense with the same degree of competency that we play defense. Sure, McRae missed his 3s today, but if we had an offense that could get him open more, things could have been different. If Stokes was not so dominant, we would have no chance to score points.

So, IMO the reasons we can't win the close ones is the lack of a competent offense and the absolutely boneheaded coaching calls at the end of games.
 
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#10
#10
armchair said:
This WAS a choke. As soon as the Gators cranked it up a notch midway through the second half, the Vols started playing nervous and scared. That's the definition of a choke.
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Not sure "choke" is the right word. The Vols stayed in the game with their defense and shot fairly well until the second half. Still had a chance until the technical on Maymon which was a 4 point turnaround. If just 1 player had been able to knock down a few shots in the second half we would all be on here celebrating a win over the #1 ranked team.
 
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#11
#11
tenmanjonez said:
would help if the coach exhibited 1 iota of backbone with the refs to set an example. we get called for bad things late in the game because our coach doesn't work the refs. it's embarrassing how freaking passive he is.
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You act like you've been a coach before or at least know what goes on. The camera isn't always on Martin and "working" the refs at an SEC tournament game isn't going to guarantee they will call any better.
 
#12
#12
Now we've been over this. Timeouts, no timeouts, coaching, etc., etc., etc..........yu gotta pay attention.:)
GO VOLS!
 
#13
#13
iKrager said:
You act like you've been a coach before or at least know what goes on. The camera isn't always on Martin and "working" the refs at an SEC tournament game isn't going to guarantee they will call any better.
Click to expand...

as soon as maymon talked to the ref, drawing the tech, the refs called as many fouls on Florida in the next 3 mins as they had the previous 15. I've never seen ccm show emotion towards the refs since he's been here. maymon gets shoved to the ground grabbing his knee, nothing. it's absurd. I don't have to have been a coach to realize things.
 
#14
#14
I had a similar thought earlier today. We tend to struggle in games where each possession matters down the stretch. I think we have only had 1-2 single-digit wins this year if my memory serves correctly.
 
#15
#15
We rarely seem to get clean looks when we need a basket. Idk if that's Cuonzo or Barton not being a good enough PG.

This is what scares me moving forward. Stokes and McRae are often able to create looks and score on talet alone, but with them potentially leaving, we wont have the talent to do that. Well have to have well designed sets and plays.
 
#17
#17
1985Vols said:
0-6 in games determined by 5 points or less this year. Enough said.
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You really want an eye opener, look at last years and the year before, it gets worse. Games with leads that disappeared. We did win the MO game at home, 4 OT.

Losses to C of C and Austin Peay. I hate to say it but this is Martin's MO and the inability to coach down the stretch.

This year we were down 8 as you know to Texas A&M with 3.20 to go tied it and got beat. Same team we lead throughout the game until last 2 minutes and blew it on a lucky shot at buzzer but blew a 15 pt lead I believe.

Martin cannot close out a game. This is where the focus should be.

Look at the loses in the NIT.
 
#18
#18
utfan72408 said:
I don't want this to be a cliche post-game reaction thread. And I am only making this thread because I haven't seen this addressed very much in the other ones.

Take a look at our schedule and results this year. Show me a close win. Show me a win where we really scratched and clawed and grinded out a tough win. There isn't one. I mean.... Mississippi State? Kinda? I guess? I didn't watch that game, don't know what it was like. But they are beyond awful, so how much credit should we really get for that one?

Anyway, look.

At Vandy.
Vs Texas A&M.
At Texas A&M.
Vs NC State.
At Wichita State (yes, it counts; we were down 2 with 5 minutes left).
At Kentucky.
Vs Florida.
At Xavier.
Vs Missouri.

Catch my drift? We were in all of those games, with legitimate chances to win. We are just SOFT as hell. We can't respond when teams hit us in the mouth. We can't EVER come through in a close game. We **** ourselves every single damn time. Just like what you just saw against Florida. Regardless of the caliber of the opponent, that's what we do at the end of games. Lose all composure. Not very reflective of the experience we have. It's alarming.

Almost all our wins are blowouts! Jeez! And the ones that aren't blowouts were still fairly comfortable wins. Wins in which we didn't really feel pressure near the end.

Last year we had a couple of nice, big-time grind-it-out wins. Florida, Missouri, at A&M. This year? None. Soft. Soft soft soft.

That's why despite the fact that we are supposedly playing "better" than we have, I am still skeptical of whether we'll make a run in the tourney. Because if we get in a close game, what's going to happen? If we grab an early lead (like today), and our opponent claws back, what's going to happen? When we inevitably get hit in the mouth, what's gonna happen?

This is a big reason why I'm still not really a big Martin fan. Everyone else around here seems to have done a big 180 since we blew out Mizzou and those others. Not me. Let's see us grind one out first.

All right, this was lengthier than intended. And maybe slightly redundant. Sorry about that. But I'd love everyone's thoughts! Do y'all agree or disagree?
Click to expand...

I was at the Bama game last yr. at TBA; I know it was close. I'm almost certain we won by 1.
 
#19
#19
Freak said:
I had a similar thought earlier today. We tend to struggle in games where each possession matters down the stretch. I think we have only had 1-2 single-digit wins this year if my memory serves correctly.
Click to expand...

Lowest margin of victory was Arkansas by 7 and Miss St by 8
 
#22
#22
95 Vol Alum said:
Do people think we are going to make a deep run? I'll have what they're having then.
Click to expand...

I can see both sides. I think we are capable of playing with anyone, like we did today against the best team in the country. But I don't have much confidence in this team to finish close games in a tournament setting. As good as our defense can be, or offense can be equally bad or worse.

Regardless, it's great to be back in the dance. I'm anxious to see our matchups.
 
#23
#23
Basically the Vols lost their composure. How many times in the second half did our guards get the ball stolen. The tech on Maymon won the game for the Gators. Tenn couldn't run its offense and Stokes was virtually double-teamed and unable to be a factor. Late in the game there was too much one-on-one. Not taking good shots. Out of sync.
 
#24
#24
95 Vol Alum said:
Do people think we are going to make a deep run? I'll have what they're having then.
Click to expand...

For me its hard to grade this team on ability to win close games because their defensive intensity just started 4 games ago. But CCM hasn't had any games to back up the argument that he can put something together at crunch time. IMO
 
#25
#25
the problem, generally, is teams are not going to let stokes and mcrae beat them at the end of a game.

someone else has to step up.

i said before the game the key to the game was every other guard besides mcrae. tennessee did an outstanding job defensively, but they got 11 points combined from barton, thompson, richardson, reese, and moore.

unfortunately, that wasn't enough.
 
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