NASA Scientist: Last Chance (Global Warming)

#51
#51
How in the crap does some scientist have inside info about oil companies editing school textbooks? What a load of crap. This kind of behavior calls into question anything he has ever claimed.
 
#52
#52
TennTradition said:
High crimes against humanity? Geez...
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I'm only assuming this but I saw an Environmental Defense Fund spokesperson defending these comments with the premise that any research that questions man-made GW is bogus and funding by Big Oil.

Demonizing researchers hardly seems consistent with scientific inquiry.
 
#53
#53
volinbham said:
I'm only assuming this but I saw an Environmental Defense Fund spokesperson defending these comments with the premise that any research that questions man-made GW is bogus and funding by Big Oil.

Demonizing researchers hardly seems consistent with scientific inquiry.
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I've been screaming that one for a while now. As to your other post, if you really want to get worried, exactly what kind of government are you left with when some scientist (whoever) goes out crowing about the urgency of whatever and gets the government to sanction those who oppose his views? I'm not saying that's going to happen here but there are those who would be very happy to have it work that way...and they really scare me.
 
#56
#56
I think its more plausible that his political leanings are based on his study and opinions on climate change, rather then his opinions on climate change are based on his political leanings.

I think he has a genuine concern for the environment. Not everything is politically motivated, particularly for a scientist who has dedicated a large part of their life to studying the effect of greenhouse gases.
 
#57
#57
oklavol said:
I think its more plausible that he has a genuine concern for the environment. Not everything is politically motivated, particularly for someone who has dedicated a large part of their life to studying the effects of greenhouse gases.
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Hoe can you say that without cracking up laughing? Carbon credits is legit? OK...
 
#58
#58
hndog609 said:
TT, I have become a rabid subscriber to Dr John Ioannidis's stance:

Dr. Ioannidis is an epidemiologist who studies research methods at the University of Ioannina School of Medicine in Greece and Tufts University in Medford, Mass. In a series of influential analytical reports, he has documented how, in thousands of peer-reviewed research papers published every year, there may be so much less than meets the eye.
These flawed findings, for the most part, stem not from fraud or formal misconduct, but from more mundane misbehavior: miscalculation, poor study design or self-serving data analysis. "There is an increasing concern that *in modern research, false findings may be the majority or even the vast majority of published research claims*," Dr. Ioannidis said. "A new claim about a research finding is *more likely to be false than true*."
*The hotter the field of research the more likely its published findings should be viewed skeptically, he determined*.
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Well that's comforting to know. :blink:
 
#63
#63
If I owned a company, I would probably shop at my store. That doesn't mean that what I am selling is inherently bad...or bogus. I think that carbon credits could play a big part in any future emissions reductions we engage in. It is surely a lot cheaper to make emissions reductions in China than here, for example....
 
#64
#64
TennTradition said:
If I owned a company, I would probably shop at my store. That doesn't mean that what I am selling is inherently bad...or bogus. I think that carbon credits could play a big part in any future emissions reductions we engage in. It is surely a lot cheaper to make emissions reductions in China than here, for example....
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It's just he fact that he's asking for others to change their lives or make sacrifices in the name of global warming. He sure doesn't seem like he's leading by example. I had made up my mind about global warming before I heard about all Al stood to gain from its hysteria. However, these kind of things certainly don't make me doubt myself.
 
#65
#65
kptvol said:
It's just he fact that he's asking for others to change their lives or make sacrifices in the name of global warming. He sure doesn't seem like he's leading by example. I had made up my mind about global warming before I heard about all Al stood to gain from its hysteria. However, these kind of things certainly don't make me doubt myself.
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I still don't see why carbon credits are bogus...if they are certified reputably and truly do reduce carbon emission (or offset it)...that how is that bogus? Offsetting carbon emissions makes sense in a global sense...and the US will use that angle immensely (if it can be trusted and we are wise) to address our emissions reductions if we choose to go that route.
 
#66
#66
TennTradition said:
I still don't see why carbon credits are bogus...if they are certified reputably and truly do reduce carbon emission (or offset it)...that how is that bogus? Offsetting carbon emissions makes sense in a global sense...and the US will use that angle immensely (if it can be trusted and we are wise) to address our emissions reductions if we choose to go that route.
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I think that may also play into his bogus claim. Also, I'm not really sure what the grand scheme is for the carbon credits. It's great for the fabulously wealthy like Al Gore. How is your average American going to utilize that kind of thing? It seems more impractical than bogus.
 
#67
#67
I just bought a tree in Sumatra to offset any flatulence I may have after eating some Krystal chili and a couple double cheese krystals.

cap and trade is a bogus scheme.
 
#68
#68
MG1968 said:
I just bought a tree in Sumatra to offset any flatulence I may have after eating some Krystal chili and a couple double cheese krystals.

cap and trade is a bogus scheme.
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If you ate Krystal's, you better buy more than a tree.
 
#69
#69
it was a pretty big tree, or so I was told. capable of producing a lot of toilet paper.
 
#70
#70
MG1968 said:
I just bought a tree in Sumatra to offset any flatulence I may have after eating some Krystal chili and a couple double cheese krystals.

cap and trade is a bogus scheme.
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If we decide to start limiting emissions, then we are going to adopt some kind of "scheme." You can apply a carbon tax....or you can cap and trade. I would much rather see a cap and trade because it is certainly more efficient for our industry than a tax. So, I'm not going to call it a bogus scheme until someone shows me we can't do it without corruption.
 
#71
#71
TennTradition said:
I still don't see why carbon credits are bogus...if they are certified reputably and truly do reduce carbon emission (or offset it)...that how is that bogus? Offsetting carbon emissions makes sense in a global sense...and the US will use that angle immensely (if it can be trusted and we are wise) to address our emissions reductions if we choose to go that route.
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The only purposes of carbon credits are to (i) give the government yet another mechanism to dip its greedy hand into the money jar, and (ii) slow down and/or cripple our evil capitalist economy. It's a joke.
 
#72
#72
jamesd1628 said:
The only purposes of carbon credits are to (i) give the government yet another mechanism to dip its greedy hand into the money jar, and (ii) slow down and/or cripple our evil capitalist economy. It's a joke.
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So...a carbon tax isn't more of a joke in your mind? If we adopt a system, cap and trade is the way to do it, IMO.
 
#73
#73
TennTradition said:
So...a carbon tax isn't more of a joke in your mind? If we adopt a system, cap and trade is the way to do it, IMO.
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All of these "systems" have the same purposes, to enrich the government and cripple our economy. They are all a methodology for expanding Socialism. No such system should be adopted in any form.
 
#74
#74
TennTradition said:
If we decide to start limiting emissions, then we are going to adopt some kind of "scheme." You can apply a carbon tax....or you can cap and trade. I would much rather see a cap and trade because it is certainly more efficient for our industry than a tax. So, I'm not going to call it a bogus scheme until someone shows me we can't do it without corruption.
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Is cap and trade the same approach used to reduce sulfur emissions a while back?

If so, it seems the biggest issue is setting the correct caps that provide real but realistic incentives rather than punitive, destructive caps.

The offsets (plant a tree in Bulgaria) seems bogus to me. (If I'm using the terms correctly)
 
#75
#75
volinbham said:
Is cap and trade the same approach used to reduce sulfur emissions a while back?

If so, it seems the biggest issue is setting the correct caps that provide real but realistic incentives rather than punitive, destructive caps.

The offsets (plant a tree in Bulgaria) seems bogus to me. (If I'm using the terms correctly)
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I think that you have it about right. The plant a tree stuff is a little weird...and hard to manage. I like the credits that come from CDMs (clean development mechanisms)..such as modify a plant in China so it releases less methane and get credit in return type plans more than the plant a tree variety. Basically, a stiff wind could come along and take away your credit in the latter variety.

I think that cap and trade was done with regard to sulfur emissions. Setting the cap is difficult...like setting the tax rate...but if done correctly, the cap and trade is more efficient for the industries involved.
 
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