National Service or Involuntary Servitude

#1
MG1968

MG1968

That’s No Moon…
Joined
Sep 17, 2006
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#1
Obama/Biden's "national service" initiative is scary.

Service | Change.gov

* Expand Service-Learning in Our Nation's Schools:
Obama and Biden will set a goal that all middle and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year. They will develop national guidelines for service- learning and will give schools better tools both to develop programs and to document student experience. Green Job Corps: Obama and Biden will create an energy-focused youth jobs program to provide disadvantaged youth with service opportunities weatherizing buildings and getting practical experience in fast-growing career fields.

* Expand YouthBuild Program:

Obama and Biden will expand the YouthBuild program, which gives disadvantaged young people the chance to complete their high school education, learn valuable skills and build affordable housing in their communities. They will grow the program so that 50,000 low-income young people a year a chance to learn construction job skills and complete high school.


* Require 100 Hours of Service in College:

Obama and Biden will establish a new American Opportunity Tax Credit that is worth $4,000 a year in exchange for 100 hours of public service a year.


* Promote College Serve-Study:

Obama and Biden will ensure that at least 25 percent of College Work-Study funds are used to support public service opportunities instead of jobs in dining halls and libraries.
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how do you require community service? This is insane and I can guarantee you that neither of my kids will participate in any of these programs.

Change.gov also pays lip service to crime. Including this laughable tidbit:

As president, Barack Obama will support innovative local programs, such as the CeaseFire program in Chicago, that have been proven to work. Such programs implement a comprehensive public health approach that implements a community-based strategy to prevent youth violence. He will also double funding for federal afterschool programs and invest in 20 Promise Neighborhoods across the country to ensure that urban youth have meaningful opportunities to succeed.
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#2
#2
Forced work? No pay? Service to the country? What service has Obama done for the country?

I'm prepared for the thrashing I am sure to take for making this comparison, but oh well.

Obama's required national service programs pretty much amount to a form of slavery IMO. How ironic that a guy from his privilaged, educated background still reverts back to such outdated backward ways.
 
#4
#4
I probably averaged over 100 hours of community service per year in college, but I'd be pretty pissed if I were forced to do something like that. How are they going to keep track of that kind of thing? What about college students that work jobs? Do part time students have to do this crap?
 
#6
#6
Funny that he's sticking it to one of the age groups where he had the most support.
 
#8
#8
SavageOrangeJug said:
They are the only ones naive enough to think he's doing them a favor.
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The college years are often the laziest of one's life. Add to that the fact that community service for that age is most often associated with PI, DUI, or underage consumption charge and I don't see how any student will be OK with this.
 
#9
#9
kptvol said:
The college years are often the laziest of one's life. Add to that the fact that community service for that age is most often associated with PI, DUI, or underage consumption charge and I don't see how any student will be OK with this.
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Lazy? How can you call closing the bar at 3:00, eating Krystals until 4:00, and being in class by 8:00 lazy? :)
 
#10
#10
In fairness, what is wrong with tying federal dollar that are already being given (I assume) to community service now. Granted, it might expand - but it isn't like every college student would be doing this. If you want the tax credit or you are on a federal work study (where you're already required to do work), you would now be doing community service. What am I missing - why is that wrong?
 
#11
#11
TennTradition said:
In fairness, what is wrong with tying federal dollar that are already being given (I assume) to community service now. Granted, it might expand - but it isn't like every college student would be doing this. If you want the tax credit or you are on a federal work study (where you're already required to do work), you would now be doing community service. What am I missing - why is that wrong?
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requiring it is what's wrong
 
#12
#12
MG1968 said:
requiring it is what's wrong
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OK...so you also disagree with the idea of federal work studies, then? I kind of look at this as a bigger benefit to the university community than working in the library - I know I would have rather had the option of doing community service where I felt like I made a difference than file books had I been on that kind of work study....
 
#13
#13
SavageOrangeJug said:
Lazy? How can you call closing the bar at 3:00, eating Krystals until 4:00, and being in class by 8:00 lazy? :)
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Wow, only an hour from bar closing till you are done eating Krystals? I've been out of college for a few years, but even now, once I close the bar down, it takes at least an hour and a half just to get to a Krystal. Forget finishing them.

You must be much more functional after a bar closing than I am.
 
#14
#14
AgentOrange007 said:
Wow, only an hour from bar closing till you are done eating Krystals? I've been out of college for a few years, but even now, once I close the bar down, it takes at least an hour and a half just to get to a Krystal. Forget finishing them.

You must be much more functional after a bar closing than I am.
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I haven't had so much as a beer in 11½ years. However, prior to 1997, I was a professional.
 
#15
#15
TennTradition said:
OK...so you also disagree with the idea of federal work studies, then? I kind of look at this as a bigger benefit to the university community than working in the library - I know I would have rather had the option of doing community service where I felt like I made a difference than file books had I been on that kind of work study....
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I don't see a federal work study as the same thing and you're also talking about college age students. Are you comfortable requiring 6, 7 and 8th graders to go out into the community? What would the liabilities be if one of them was hurt or killed or they damaged property?

Volunteerism is a very good thing, but it should never be a requirement unless it's for a class in human ecology or some other college level course.
 
#17
#17
MG1968 said:
I don't see a federal work study as the same thing and you're also talking about college age students. Are you comfortable requiring 6, 7 and 8th graders to go out into the community? What would the liabilities be if one of them was hurt or killed or they damaged property?

Volunteerism is a very good thing, but it should never be a requirement unless it's for a class in human ecology or some other college level course.
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OK - I see. So are your problems mostly associated with the children, then? I can see that to some degree. I think that encouraging community service even at that level is good - but requiring it...no.

If you look back up, my comments were more aimed at the college-age. I took it that everyone was also objecting to college kids doing community service through either the A) education tax break or B) the federal works study...I'm not really upset by that...but my ears are open as to why it's a problem. I see it as a good thing at the moment.
 
#18
#18
TennTradition said:
OK - I see. So are your problems mostly associated with the children, then? I can see that to some degree. I think that encouraging community service even at that level is good - but requiring it...no.

If you look back up, my comments were more aimed at the college-age. I took it that everyone was also objecting to college kids doing community service through either the A) education tax break or B) the federal works study...I'm not really upset by that...but my ears are open as to why it's a problem. I see it as a good thing at the moment.
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I suppose I misread something. It clearly says "REQUIRE" when it probably should read "PROMOTE".
 
#19
#19
You people (Ross Perot) grow up. North GA High Schools are already doing this. Hell of a lot bigger eggs to fry than this. Crap. Some of the youth today need to work in a community environment to develop simple skills. Most are spoiled and have no clue. In Germany the require is to serve in the armed forces for two years. No excuse. At least we are not putting all eighteen year olds in the service. Right now most of them would be "bullet Stoppers"
 
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#20
#20
kptvol said:
I suppose I misread something. It clearly says "REQUIRE" when it probably should read "PROMOTE".
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Well...I think that the require was only meaning require 100 hours of community service in exchange for you taking the tax credit....which is really promoting community service through the implementation of this tax credit...I'm not sure require is the best word to use when it is an optional tax credit (presumably)...
 
#21
#21
I am in large part not a supporter of BHO, however, I fail to find the link to servitude and/or slavery.

Expand Service-Learning in Our Nation's Schools: Obama and Biden will set a goal that all middle and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year. They will develop national guidelines for service- learning and will give schools better tools both to develop programs and to document student experience.
Click to expand...
Seems like this program will be implemented with Federal incentives to states that meet certain milestones or benchmarks. While, I highly disagree with the idea, I do not link it to servitude/slavery and I look forward to this program actually leading to more parents pulling their children out of the public school system.

Require 100 Hours of Service in College: Obama and Biden will establish a new American Opportunity Tax Credit that is worth $4,000 a year in exchange for 100 hours of public service a year.
Click to expand...
This, I have a huge problem with. The people who are going to need this tax credit the most are the people who are already working their a**es off while also attending school full-time. The AMT will make this issue non-existent for plenty of students.

My bigger concern is that as a taxpayer, I am being asked for my taxes to go towards paying some kids $40/hr to plant trees...
 
#22
#22
Sudden Impact said:
You people (Ross Perot) grow up. North GA High Schools are already doing this. Hell of a lot bigger eggs to fry than this. Crap. Some of the youth today need to work in a community environment to develop simple skills. Most are spoiled and have no clue. In Germany the require is to serve in the armed forces for two years. No excuse. At least we are not putting all eighteen year olds in the service. Right now most of them would be "bullet Stoppers"
Click to expand...
Yes, we need to grow up and stop holding up policy initiatives of the POTUS-elect to the principles of liberty that this nation was founded on and instead hold these up to present day (there is a huge implication there if you want to read into it) Germany.

Thank you for setting us straight.
 
#23
#23
therealUT said:
This, I have a huge problem with. The people who are going to need this tax credit the most are the people who are already working their a**es off while also attending school full-time. The AMT will make this issue non-existent for plenty of students.

My bigger concern is that as a taxpayer, I am being asked for my taxes to go towards paying some kids $40/hr to plant trees...
Click to expand...

Yeah...it presents a potentially obscure balance between creating work and performing service that there is an existing need for. I can understand the complaints about best use of tax money - that's a reasonable debate that will take place.
 
#24
#24
therealUT said:
Yes, we need to grow up and stop holding up policy initiatives of the POTUS-elect to the principles of liberty that this nation was founded on and instead hold these up to present day (there is a huge implication there if you want to read into it) Germany.

Thank you for setting us straight.
Click to expand...

so I gather you support this idea. Don't believe it is gonna be the real issue that we can burn him on the stake for.

:popcorn:
 
#25
#25
therealUT said:
Yes, we need to grow up and stop holding up policy initiatives of the POTUS-elect to the principles of liberty that this nation was founded on and instead hold these up to present day (there is a huge implication there if you want to read into it) Germany.

Thank you for setting us straight.
Click to expand...

so I gather you support this idea. Don't believe it is gonna be the real issue that we can burn him on the stake for.


Keep stomping the Piss Ants at your feet without looking up to see that the Elephants are getting ready to trample your head.
:popcorn:
 
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