Naysayers Keep It To Yourselves

[armchair]

Holly has done some good things, but here's the thing: We have a premier program with a tremendous tradition: The bar is very high. UT is on the same level in women's BB as North Carolina and Kentucky are in men's basketball. We went through a long transition process with PS and the program slipped. Warlick has steadied the ship--but she has to do more than that: She has to start winning some big games and get us back into the final four and national title picture. It's hard to fully assess her because we've had some freakin' bad luck with all sorts of crazy injuries; every time you turn around it's something else. Frustrating. We should beat Kentucky: The cats aren't that great--I've watched them a few times and they are a 3rd tier team. (Connecticut is the first tier, and we are in the second tier with maybe four other teams--ND, baylor, maryland, south carolina)--and then comes third-tier teams like kentucky and others.) The south carolina game will be big--and we'll probably end up playing them in the SEC tourney as well. If we can beat SC, we can solidify a no. 1 seed, and that would be great. Seeing a little more toughness out of this group, which is great: never underestimated the importance of physical and mental toughness in sports.

 

[Jdh13579]

Holly has done some good things, but here's the thing: We have a premier program with a tremendous tradition: The bar is very high. UT is on the same level in women's BB as North Carolina and Kentucky are in men's basketball. We went through a long transition process with PS and the program slipped. Warlick has steadied the ship--but she has to do more than that: She has to start winning some big games and get us back into the final four and national title picture. It's hard to fully assess her because we've had some freakin' bad luck with all sorts of crazy injuries; every time you turn around it's something else. Frustrating. We should beat Kentucky: The cats aren't that great--I've watched them a few times and they are a 3rd tier team. (Connecticut is the first tier, and we are in the second tier with maybe four other teams--ND, baylor, maryland, south carolina)--and then comes third-tier teams like kentucky and others.) The south carolina game will be big--and we'll probably end up playing them in the SEC tourney as well. If we can beat SC, we can solidify a no. 1 seed, and that would be great. Seeing a little more toughness out of this group, which is great: never underestimated the importance of physical and mental toughness in sports.

Perfectly said. Keep the bar where pat left it. Not where holly currently has it set. Tennessee is better then second tier. Unfortunately that's where the program is right now.

 

[ivyleague]

Perfectly said. Keep the bar where pat left it. Not where holly currently has it set. Tennessee is better then second tier. Unfortunately that's where the program is right now.

So which other "second-tier coach" would you have coach the Lady Vols, since apparently Holly's outstanding "second-tier" record isn't to your liking? I mean, if there is only one first-tier coach (Auriemma), who do you get? He isn't leaving UConn (fortunately). Looks like you'd just be replacing a "second-tier" coach with another "second-tier" coach (or, more than likely, worse). The fact is, if asinine fans demand a coach with Holly's record and ability be replaced, no coach worth his or her salt -- and I do mean NO coach -- will agree to take the job. No amount of money or bragging rights are worth the small but vocal subset of s*** fans who demand a coaching change every time a game is lost (or not won by enough points). Here were are, Tennessee beat a solid, top-10 Kentucky team by double digits AFTER their star and leader goes out with what is very possibly a season-ending injury, and certain "fans" are still whining that Holly might not be the right person for the job.

SMH

 

[movinonup]

I may get crucified for this and let me preface by saying this: I love CPS and what she did for the game will never be equaled. But trying to bring a little reasonableness to this discussion and backing up with stats, Here is a comparison of Holly and Pat (knowing that NO one will ever compare to Pat) but we need to appreciate Holly and the job she has done:

Overall Record: Pat: 1098-208 .841 Winning Percentage
Holly: 78 - 15 .839 Winning Percentage

Conference Record: Pat: 306 - 44 .874 Winning Percentage
Holly: 39 - 5 .886 Winning Percentage

Postseason:
2014 - Sweet Sixteen (Holly)
2013 - Elite Eight (Holly)
2012 - Elite Eight (Pat)
2011 - Elite Eight (Pat)
2010 - Sweet Sixteen (Pat)
2009 - 1st Round ( Pat)

Sorry to make some of you mad with facts, but I am really sick of the Holly can't coach crowd.

 

[volbeast33]

I may get crucified for this and let me preface by saying this: I love CPS and what she did for the game will never be equaled. But trying to bring a little reasonableness to this discussion and backing up with stats, Here is a comparison of Holly and Pat (knowing that NO one will ever compare to Pat) but we need to appreciate Holly and the job she has done:

Overall Record: Pat: 1098-208 .841 Winning Percentage
Holly: 78 - 15 .839 Winning Percentage

Conference Record: Pat: 306 - 44 .874 Winning Percentage
Holly: 39 - 5 .886 Winning Percentage

Postseason:
2014 - Sweet Sixteen (Holly)
2013 - Elite Eight (Holly)
2012 - Elite Eight (Pat)
2011 - Elite Eight (Pat)
2010 - Sweet Sixteen (Pat)
2009 - 1st Round ( Pat)

Sorry to make some of you mad with facts, but I am really sick of the Holly can't coach crowd.

Yeah our fans are ridiculously stupid

 

[teacherdean]

Likewise, there are many of us who believe she IS the answer and, of course, there is her record -- which is positively outstanding for a 3rd year head coach -- to back it up. As with pretty much anything in life, a lot in basketball depends on luck, but Holly's record certainly isn't based solely on luck. She's a very good coach and appears to be getting better and better, and it's rather asinine for those who purport to be a fans to insinuate that they don't really like her as coach but can't find a solid reason why, since she has quite an impressive win-loss record as well as a seemingly very amiable personality. The other coaches mentioned are all excellent coaches with far more head coaching experience than Holly at this point (and regardless of what anyone says, being a head coach is entirely different from being an assistant). That said, all of the above named coaches have coached poorly on occasion. It happens.

I do not disagree with anything you have said and respect your beliefs, however, no matter what any of us think, history will be the best judge of Holly's coaching abilities. I think at this point she is doing okay and has an excellent record. I do not think she is where she needs to be if she is
to be categorized as excellent. However getting rid of her is outrageous.

 

[gule]

she currently is 73-15 with a .830 winning %. I doubt even Geenowho had that his 1st 3 years.

 

[ivyleague]

I do not disagree with anything you have said and respect your beliefs, however, no matter what any of us think, history will be the best judge of Holly's coaching abilities. I think at this point she is doing okay and has an excellent record. I do not think she is where she needs to be if she is
to be categorized as excellent. However getting rid of her is outrageous.

I don't think any third year coach could be classified as "excellent" when compared to top coaches who have been leading their programs for decades. And for those who insist UT should have gone after one of those coaches, the fact is, none would have left their own successful programs to take over for Pat Summitt knowing the veritable s***storm they would have faced had they not hit the ground running at the warp speed expected by the fan base. Holly has done an amazing job given the situation, and conducted herself with such grace and fortitude throughout, that I can't imagine how anyone who claims to be a fan couldn't be 100% behind her and proud of the job she has done so far. Frankly, it blows my mind to read the foolishness some people feel compelled to write. It is absolutely outrageous to even suggest she needs to be replaced, and yet it is repeatedly insinuated -- and sometimes outright stated --that that's what needs to happen.

 

[Volfan2012]

Holly has to start securing some post players on the roster. You need four legitimate post players were down this season to an undersized Graves because of injuries. I think we can still get to the elite 8 and win 30 games. Injuries are hurting Jasmine Jones, Jannah Tucker, Jordan Reynolds, Izzy Harrison, and Mercedes Russell.
That lowers our roster to Carter, Massengale, Nared, Burdick, Nared, Moore, and Dunbar. Only five of those seven are players that we are confident in playing against the top teams.

 

[SGMVols]

Holly has to start securing some post players on the roster. You need four legitimate post players were down this season to an undersized Graves because of injuries. I think we can still get to the elite 8 and win 30 games. Injuries are hurting Jasmine Jones, Jannah Tucker, Jordan Reynolds, Izzy Harrison, and Mercedes Russell.
That lowers our roster to Carter, Massengale, Nared, Burdick, Nared, Moore, and Dunbar. Only five of those seven are players that we are confident in playing against the top teams.

I'll be stunned if this team makes the Elite Eight sans Harrison. I'm not sure they would've done it even WITH her.

 

[Smallvol#1]

Yeah our fans are ridiculously stupid

SOME of our "fans" are ridiculously stupid.

As to other posts:

Holly's %s are excellent, but three years is short term in this situation. Hopefully they will be that high after 5, 10, or more years. But, until those years are past history, there is nothing to judge her on but the three years she has been a head coach...very successful.

IMO Holly's weak spot so far is not signing a true post (wide body, control the paint type post). Hopefully this will not affect the team or she will sign one soon to cover that weak area. This is the point that worries me. I would have loved to have signed that girl that went to Baylor.

And, yes, I agree that it would have been hard to get a proven "elite" coach. Tara...not leaving, Muffet...think not, Jeff...yeah sure, they are high on him, how could he do better, he would have to win consecutive NCs, Dawn...SC is committed to her, why would she want to leave at what looks like the start of a very successful tenure, Matthew...uh, look again, Nikki...love her but is she better? So that just leaves Gino...I'm sure he would jump at the chance. (gule would VOLunteer to lead the welcoming committee.)

 

[armchair]

Warlick has NOT been "very successful." The SEC is not very strong, and we've always had more talent than any other teams in the conference--by a long shot. South Carolina is talented this year, but otherwise we still have had more than enough talent to win the conference. Warlick hasn't won any big games--hasn't beaten any big dogs. The Louisville Elite Eight game, by the way, was a total embarrassment--total meltdown by our team. Warlick has done OK, we've got a good record this year and had a good chance at the final four before Izzy's injury-- but we need more than OK: The team still stumbles around for long stretches on offense, and is still nowhere near as efficient offensively as we have to be to become a serious contender again. Beyond that, our juju just isn't good with Warlick--we have had a TON of injuries, including freaky injuries, in the last two years. When we get a new coach, we will want to get a youngish comer who's proven that s/he can win and build teams, perhaps at a lower level, and who is dynamic and smart. We obviously are not going to hire away a top coach from another proven program.

 

[madtownvol]

The lady Vols sure got the memo LOL

For a supposed LV fan, you sure seem to take a lot of pleasure whenever the LVs lose, which raises the question as to whether you are a masochist or a UConn fan.

 

[ivyleague]

Warlick has NOT been "very successful." The SEC is not very strong, and we've always had more talent than any other teams in the conference--by a long shot. South Carolina is talented this year, but otherwise we still have had more than enough talent to win the conference. Warlick hasn't won any big games--hasn't beaten any big dogs. The Louisville Elite Eight game, by the way, was a total embarrassment--total meltdown by our team. Warlick has done OK, we've got a good record this year and had a good chance at the final four before Izzy's injury-- but we need more than OK: The team still stumbles around for long stretches on offense, and is still nowhere near as efficient offensively as we have to be to become a serious contender again. Beyond that, our juju just isn't good with Warlick--we have had a TON of injuries, including freaky injuries, in the last two years. When we get a new coach, we will want to get a youngish comer who's proven that s/he can win and build teams, perhaps at a lower level, and who is dynamic and smart. We obviously are not going to hire away a top coach from another proven program.

Yes, as a matter of fact, she HAS been very successful. That you say she has not is irrelevant. Your opinion counts for absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. She hasn't attained a national championship in her very short tenure as head coach, but then, neither has anyone not named Geno Auriemma. The SEC is a far better conference than you than you insist, and Holly has done a phenomenal job leading her team through it over the past three seasons.

Fortunately (or, I guess for you, unfortunately), she isn't going anywhere anytime soon. You say Tennessee needs to hire a dynamic and smart coach (implying, I assume, that you believe Holly is neither of those things). Again, that's entirely your opinion, which you are certainly entitled to, as long as you realize there is a vast difference between fact and opinion. The fact is, Holly is a smart coach; she wouldn't be where she is today if she wasn't. If she didn't have the smarts to be a successful coach, she wouldn't be leading one of the top teams in basketball to continued successful seasons; if she wasn't smart enough to be a real coach, she'd quite possibly just be an "armchair" coach posting nonsense to message boards from the comfort of home . . . kind of like you do now. She may not be "dynamic" to the extent that you want her to be, but she comes across as incredibly personable, warm, genuine, and relatable, which are traits that I would find far more important as a recruit, a parent, a member of the staff, or a fan, than someone who is "slick" but not necessarily any of the other things. Plus, she's honest; from what I can gather, she, like Pat Summitt, prefers to go about things the right way, particularly in terms of recruiting. She doesn't give dynamite interviews, but nothing says you have to be a great public speaker to be a great coach. She doesn't do badly, but she sometimes seems a bit uncomfortable in front of the cameras, and there could be a myriad of reasons for that . . . it certainly doesn't mean she isn't smart or a good coach or that she isn't good in recruiting situations. Maybe she just doesn't enjoy the interviews; personally, I know I would positively loathe that part of the job.

And surely -- surely -- you aren't implying that there is some cosmic fault with Holly that is causing the team to suffer injuries and bad luck. If so, that's just . . .wow.

 

[Smallvol#1]

Yes, as a matter of fact, she HAS been very successful. That you say she has not is irrelevant. Your opinion counts for absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. She hasn't attained a national championship in her very short tenure as head coach, but then, neither has anyone not named Geno Auriemma. The SEC is a far better conference than you than you insist, and Holly has done a phenomenal job leading her team through it over the past three seasons.

Fortunately (or, I guess for you, unfortunately), she isn't going anywhere anytime soon. You say Tennessee needs to hire a dynamic and smart coach (implying, I assume, that you believe Holly is neither of those things). Again, that's entirely your opinion, which you are certainly entitled to, as long as you realize there is a vast difference between fact and opinion. The fact is, Holly is a smart coach; she wouldn't be where she is today if she wasn't. She may not be "dynamic" to the extent that you want her to be, but she comes across as incredibly personable, warm, genuine, and relatable, which are traits that I would find far more important as a recruit, a parent, a member of the staff, or a fan, than someone who is "slick" but not necessarily any of the other things. Plus, she's honest; from what I can gather, she, like Pat Summitt, prefers to go about things the right way, particularly in terms of recruiting. She doesn't give dynamite interviews, but nothing says you have to be a great public speaker to be a great coach. She doesn't do badly, but she sometimes seems a bit uncomfortable in front of the cameras, and there could be a myriad of reasons for that . . . it certainly doesn't mean she isn't smart or a good coach or that she isn't good in recruiting situations. Maybe she just doesn't enjoy the interviews; personally, I know I would positively loathe that part of the job.

And surely -- surely -- you aren't implying that there is some cosmic fault with Holly that is causing the team to suffer injuries and bad luck. If so, that's just . . .wow.

Hi, ivy. Good rebuttal, and you're putting up a great fight, but...hard to convince someone with certain attributes you've won the argument against them; they don't let little things like facts get in the way of their opinions.

And, yes, without a doubt it is all Holly's fault re the injuries.

 

[Manvol]

Thought title said taxslayer

 

[ivyleague]

Hi, ivy. Good rebuttal, and you're putting up a great fight, but...hard to convince someone with certain attributes you've won the argument against them; they don't let little things like facts get in the way of their opinions.

And, yes, without a doubt it is all Holly's fault re the injuries.

What is truly delicious is that this same poster, in another thread about Izzy's injury, criticized those who stated they were praying for her. Now, I am not a religious person, so that issue is neither here nor there with me. However, there's something rather ironic about someone who criticizes others for praying and then turns around and blames team injuries on the coach's "juju." LOLOLOL

 

[madtownvol]

What is truly delicious is that this same poster, in another thread about Izzy's injury, criticized those who stated they were praying for her. Now, I am not a religious person, so that issue is neither here nor there with me. However, there's something rather ironic about someone who criticizes others for praying and then turns around and blames team injuries on the coach's "juju." LOLOLOL

Funny, the "juju" under CPS was not always that great either. Catchings ACL tear; Kyra Elzy ACL tear; Loree Moore ACL tear; Vicki Baugh ACL tear; Sidney Spencer ACL tear; Kelly Cain multiple concussions and reconstructive knee surgery; Alex Hornbuckle broken wrist needing surgical repair; Candace Parker redshirt due to knee issues; Cait McMahan career ended due to knee injuries; and those are just a few that I can recall top of mind.

 

[Amb3096]

Funny, the "juju" under CPS was not always that great either. Catchings ACL tear; Kyra Elzy ACL tear; Loree Moore ACL tear; Vicki Baugh ACL tear; Sidney Spencer ACL tear; Kelly Cain multiple concussions and reconstructive knee surgery; Alex Hornbuckle broken wrist needing surgical repair; Candace Parker redshirt due to knee issues; Cait McMahan career ended due to knee injuries; and those are just a few that I can recall top of mind.

Alex Fuller - high school ACL and assorted knee injuries
Amber Gray - shoulder and life threatening brain aneurysm
Alyssia Brewer - that weird foot cutting accident after her sophomore year
Lauren Avant - shoulder injury
Lashonda Stephens - bad knees

 

[teacherdean]

I don't think any third year coach could be classified as "excellent" when compared to top coaches who have been leading their programs for decades. And for those who insist UT should have gone after one of those coaches, the fact is, none would have left their own successful programs to take over for Pat Summitt knowing the veritable s***storm they would have faced had they not hit the ground running at the warp speed expected by the fan base. Holly has done an amazing job given the situation, and conducted herself with such grace and fortitude throughout, that I can't imagine how anyone who claims to be a fan couldn't be 100% behind her and proud of the job she has done so far. Frankly, it blows my mind to read the foolishness some people feel compelled to write. It is absolutely outrageous to even suggest she needs to be replaced, and yet it is repeatedly insinuated -- and sometimes outright stated --that that's what needs to happen.

Just remember opinions are like Aholes, good or bad everyone has one. You can still be a fan and not agree with 100% of the coach's decisions or what happens in a program. That in and of itself does not make one a bad fan.

 

[ivyleague]

Just remember opinions are like Aholes, good or bad everyone has one. You can still be a fan and not agree with 100% of the coach's decisions or what happens in a program. That in and of itself does not make one a bad fan.

You're right. However, the persistent complaining, whining, and coach bashing gets old. Holly isn't the best coach in women's college basketball right now. She isn't Pat Summitt. But she is a damn good coach and she's proving that with every game and every new situation that this team faces. There are certain "fans" who complain even when the team wins, either because the team didn't run the score up on what they perceive to be an inferior team, because Holly didn't argue with the refs as much as they wanted her to, because they didn't like the way Holly handled a postgame interview, because some players had an off-shooting night (which invariably they blame on the coaching staff), etc. Some people simply just aren't ever satisfied or happy or pleased or, heaven forbid, actually proud of the team and coaching staff for having what is, by all accounts, an outstanding record. And if the team should lose a game . . . watch out. The world is ending and Holly needs to be fired on the spot. So yes, everybody is entitled to his or her own opinion, but there comes a time when some people just need to be told to shut the hell up.

 

[teacherdean]

You're right. However, the persistent complaining, whining, and coach bashing gets old. Holly isn't the best coach in women's college basketball right now. She isn't Pat Summitt. But she is a damn good coach and she's proving that with every game and every new situation that this team faces. There are certain "fans" who complain even when the team wins, either because the team didn't run the score up on what they perceive to be an inferior team, because Holly didn't argue with the refs as much as they wanted her to, because they didn't like the way Holly handled a postgame interview, because some players had an off-shooting night (which invariably they blame on the coaching staff), etc. Some people simply just aren't ever satisfied or happy or pleased or, heaven forbid, actually proud of the team and coaching staff for having what is, by all accounts, an outstanding record. And if the team should lose a game . . . watch out. The world is ending and Holly needs to be fired on the spot. So yes, everybody is entitled to his or her own opinion, but there comes a time when some people just need to be told to shut the hell up.

I have to give you a like on your last post. As long as the world turns you are going to have chronic complainers who are unable to see the good in a situation. I myself am guilty of complaining but do not have an issue recognizing Holly's achievements. I agree that Holly is in a bad situation because to replace a legend is tough. Holly will need to coach her butt off the rest of the season. I want her to coach like she has never coached before and bring home a winner. It would be outstanding to see her coach the ladies into the final four. However, the chronic complainers will not be satisfied.