NBC Affiliate Private Security Kills Trump Supporter

kinda like the guy who drove all the way from Illinois to Wisconsin (crossing state lines with a fire arm).
Nothing wrong with that if you comply with the states firearm transportation laws. I do it all the time. You will seldom see me out and about without a weapon (of course you won't see it). He did have a valid cc license btw. I'm not excusing the guy but what does trespassing and filing for bankruptcy have to do with anything?
 
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He might have hit the man in the head but that doesn't necessarily mean he was aiming for the head.
From about 6 feet away, red dot reflex sight (red dot on target = bullet goes there), stance and hold indicate he's had practice, training and instruction. Tough to aim at center mass and miss by over a foot at that distance with those tools.

But anything is possible, just not probable. So explain to us why your scenario is more likely.
 
From about 6 feet away, red dot reflex sight (red dot on target = bullet goes there), stance and hold indicate he's had practice, training and instruction. Tough to aim at center mass and miss by over a foot at that distance with those tools.

But anything is possible, just not probable. So explain to us why your scenario is more likely.

Nowhere did I say that it was more likely or even likely. I believe I said might have. But in that situation anyone could be a foot of target. It's about 12-14 inches from center of the chest to between the eyes. I don't know where he was hit someone here said in the head so I was going by that.
 
Trump could not be responsible for what happened in 1980 or whatever. But he sure as heck gets some blame for what is going on right now. A lot of it.
Does the same hold true for Obama, when these groups were calling in fake emergencies and then ambushing and murdering police? It happened in several cities under his watch, Dallas, Philadelphia, Baltimore, a small town in Louisiana to name a few.
 
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Nowhere did I say that it was more likely or even likely. I believe I said might have. But in that situation anyone could be a foot of target. It's about 12-14 inches from center of the chest to between the eyes. I don't know where he was hit someone here said in the head so I was going by that.

No, not anyone could be a foot or more off target. Maybe Barney Fife might do that but most people with that equipment and training, they are not going to miss by 12"-14" at 6'.
So then are you saying he shot him but wasn't intending to kill him? Center mass can kill too but not usually as sure as a close in head shot. The optics of this entire scene is bad for the shooter.
 
No, not anyone could be a foot or more off target. Maybe Barney Fife might do that but most people with that equipment and training, they are not going to miss by 12"-14" at 6'.
So then are you saying he shot him but wasn't intending to kill him? Center mass can kill too but not usually as sure as a close in head shot. The optics of this entire scene is bad for the shooter.
No I am not and did not say that. Go back and read my posts. IMO the optics are worse for the deceased than they are for the shooter. You've just been getting bad information.

Far-Right Twitter Trolls Won’t Admit They Were Wrong About Killing of a “Patriot” in Denver
 
No I am not and did not say that. Go back and read my posts. IMO the optics are worse for the deceased than they are for the shooter. You've just been getting bad information.

Far-Right Twitter Trolls Won’t Admit They Were Wrong About Killing of a “Patriot” in Denver
Really. He just shot someone dead in the head. And you say the other guy's optics are worse based on the article you linked? That linked article also shows the shooter attempting to grab the victim's pepper spray and getting slapped away for his effort. Who assaulted whom and who was defending himself? Those are good questions. I also would like to know why the victim left Mr. BGM and went over to the shooter's location. That is shown in the video but not enough is there to explain why he did that. I'd like to know what precipitated this series of events.
 
Really. He just shot someone dead in the head. And you say the other guy's optics are worse based on the article you linked? That linked article also shows the shooter attempting to grab the victim's pepper spray and getting slapped away for his effort. Who assaulted whom and who was defending himself? Those are good questions. I also would like to know why the victim left Mr. BGM and went over to the shooter's location. That is shown in the video but not enough is there to explain why he did that. I'd like to know what precipitated this series of events.

Based on the Denver Post's photographer's sequential pictures, I don't agree that photo proves shooter was trying to grab the pepper spray.
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Edit:

Regarding Mace guy breaking away from BGM, take a look a the link I posted few minutes ago with cell phone video. Mace guy was yelling at people to get their cameras out of there.
 
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Based on the Denver Post's photographer's sequential pictures, I don't agree that photo proves shooter was trying to grab the pepper spray.
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Regarding Mace guy breaking away from BGM, take a look a the link I posted few minutes ago with cell phone video. Mace guy was yelling at people to get their cameras out of there.
Thanks for that. Look s like shooter puts his hand on victim's chest and gets slapped. In none of the photo sequence does it show the shooter showing any reaction to the pepper spray. Interesting.

PHOTOS: A frame by frame account of the Denver protest shooting
 
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Thanks for that. Look s like shooter puts his hand on victim's chest and gets slapped. In none of the photo sequence does it show the shooter showing any reaction to the pepper spray. Interesting.

PHOTOS: A frame by frame account of the Denver protest shooting

It's really hard to tell what the context of all this is. Take a look at pic 2 in my post. Clearly shooter's hand is on Mace guy's chest, but what is the context? Is he shoving or is he being walked into and putting his hand up defensively? Is mace guy's left arm gesturing or is he already mid slap?

Same with the post slap pics. Obviously shooter is going for the gun, but post slap the mace can starts out behind mace guy and appears to be coming up and forward. Its hard to tell what's going on other than shooter is going for the gun. Does the mace coming up make him decide to fire?

If you didn't see my edit, check out the video on the link in post 353 regarding mace guy disengaging with BGM.
 
Really. He just shot someone dead in the head. And you say the other guy's optics are worse based on the article you linked? That linked article also shows the shooter attempting to grab the victim's pepper spray and getting slapped away for his effort. Who assaulted whom and who was defending himself? Those are good questions. I also would like to know why the victim left Mr. BGM and went over to the shooter's location. That is shown in the video but not enough is there to explain why he did that. I'd like to know what precipitated this series of events.
It does not look like that to me. It does show Dollop getting hit in the face by Keltner though.
 
Based on the Denver Post's photographer's sequential pictures, I don't agree that photo proves shooter was trying to grab the pepper spray.

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Edit:

Regarding Mace guy breaking away from BGM, take a look a the link I posted few minutes ago with cell phone video. Mace guy was yelling at people to get their cameras out of there.
That second photo shows the victim as the aggressor. You can tell by their stances that guy on the right has a solid stance and his body weight is standing firm, while the victim has a forward leaning stance. That doesn't tell us much about what happened, and still doesn't do much to give the shooter justification, but this picture might help give him a bit of defense. He's standing his ground, puts his hands up to protect himself, gets hit afterwords and then shoots the guy because "he was terrified the guy would take his gun from him and kill him."
 
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That second photo shows the victim as the aggressor. You can tell by their stances that guy on the right has a solid stance and his body weight is standing firm, while the victim has a forward leaning stance. That doesn't tell us much about what happened, and still doesn't do much to give the shooter justification, but this picture might help give him a bit of defense. He's standing his ground, puts his hands up to protect himself, gets hit afterwords and then shoots the guy because "he was terrified the guy would take his gun from him and kill him."

I dont know what may have been said, but if I had to choose I'd say mace guy was the primary physical aggressor. Whether there's justification to shoot him, I don't know.
 
Nothing wrong with that if you comply with the states firearm transportation laws. I do it all the time. You will seldom see me out and about without a weapon (of course you won't see it). He did have a valid cc license btw. I'm not excusing the guy but what does trespassing and filing for bankruptcy have to do with anything?

I was just saying that arguing trespassing and bankruptcy are irrelevant is no different than saying Chicago to Kenosha is irrelevant - it's like 20-30 miles but calling it state to state makes it sound like the Kenosha shooter made some grand effort to go get involved; he worked in Kenosha and lived in Illinois.

Neither is relevant to the incidents
 
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I honestly can believe that about officers, though a couple I shoot with sometimes are very good. I've heard as much from them in the past. But I would expect an armed gaurd who doesn't enjoy the same perks and leeway of being an offer to be an expert marksman. At least if it were me I know I would.
An armed guard who didn’t fill appropriate licensing paperwork and who fired his weapon irresponsibly in a crowded area, without justification (According to you) is also some professional who is out honing his craft on the weekends?

GTFOH. You guys are running on politics, not facts. Security guards are no different than lawyers, cops, or any other profession. Some are good, some are ******. Nothing here that says this guy was an expert at anything. Some evidence he was ******.

Sk Boz (@skkboz) Tweeted:
The original photos of the Matthew Dolloff shooting were intentionally darkened, but turning up the low spectrum contrast shows Matthew Dolloff clearly touching Keltner's gun.. which was found by the police after the shooting.
#MatthewDolloff #denvershooting https://t.co/8jhCzRRMOM



That’s not case closed, but it makes self-defense much stronger, if true. Whatever dude was doing with his left hand, it’s a lot easier to sell to a jury that you thought he was going for a gun when there actually is a gun and you knew it was there because you touched it when you were separating him from the innocent bystanders he was accosting with his giant can of mace.
 
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From about 6 feet away, red dot reflex sight (red dot on target = bullet goes there), stance and hold indicate he's had practice, training and instruction. Tough to aim at center mass and miss by over a foot at that distance with those tools.

But anything is possible, just not probable. So explain to us why your scenario is more likely.
You’re still ignoring the fact that he’s actively being maced and just got bitch slapped right in the ear hole.
 
An armed guard who didn’t fill appropriate licensing paperwork and who fired his weapon irresponsibly in a crowded area, without justification (According to you) is also some professional who is out honing his craft on the weekends?

GTFOH. You guys are running on politics, not facts. Security guards are no different than lawyers, cops, or any other profession. Some are good, some are ******. Nothing here that says this guy was an expert at anything. Some evidence he was ******.

Sk Boz (@skkboz) Tweeted:
The original photos of the Matthew Dolloff shooting were intentionally darkened, but turning up the low spectrum contrast shows Matthew Dolloff clearly touching Keltner's gun.. which was found by the police after the shooting.
#MatthewDolloff #denvershooting https://t.co/8jhCzRRMOM



That’s not case closed, but it makes self-defense much stronger, if true. Whatever dude was doing with his left hand, it’s a lot easier to sell to a jury that you thought he was going for a gun when there actually is a gun and you knew it was there because you touched it when you were separating him from the innocent bystanders he was accosting with his giant can of mace.

That definitely changes the narrative. If I’m on the jury, I wouldn’t find him guilty.
 
You’re still ignoring the fact that he’s actively being maced and just got bitch slapped right in the ear hole.
Not ignoring the slap. Shooter is slapped after putting his hand on the victim's chest to stop his approach towards the camera.

According to the sequence it appears that the "mace" is sprayed after the shooter pulls his weapon from his waist area, not before.

The sequence shows that the shooter never reacted to the "mace", never wipes at his face, coughs, turns away from the aerosol cloud, etc. from the time he pulls his weapon from his appendix area, (before the "mace" is sprayed), to the shot being fired, to the victim down and several sequence photos thereafter. He is never shown reacting to the "mace" nor is anyone else in the vicinity, for that matter. I find that interesting in that the "mace" appears to have no role in affecting the aim of the shooter.

Was the "mace" deployed by the victim as a response to the shooter pulling out his weapon after the slap? Was the victim going to deploy the mace weapon or no weapon? We only know what we know based on the photo sequence which shows the "mace" deployed after weapon is drawn not before.

The victim is not blameless but did his actions rise to the level of legally justifying being shot in the head/dead? It will be something for lawyers, judges and maybe even juries to decide, with more evidence to come, no doubt, since everyone there had some sort of camera device and many have their version of events leading up to the killing.

An armed guard who didn’t fill appropriate licensing paperwork and who fired his weapon irresponsibly in a crowded area, without justification (According to you) is also some professional who is out honing his craft on the weekends?

GTFOH. You guys are running on politics, not facts. Security guards are no different than lawyers, cops, or any other profession. Some are good, some are ******. Nothing here that says this guy was an expert at anything. Some evidence he was ******.

Sk Boz (@skkboz) Tweeted:
The original photos of the Matthew Dolloff shooting were intentionally darkened, but turning up the low spectrum contrast shows Matthew Dolloff clearly touching Keltner's gun.. which was found by the police after the shooting.
#MatthewDolloff #denvershooting https://t.co/8jhCzRRMOM



That’s not case closed, but it makes self-defense much stronger, if true. Whatever dude was doing with his left hand, it’s a lot easier to sell to a jury that you thought he was going for a gun when there actually is a gun and you knew it was there because you touched it when you were separating him from the innocent bystanders he was accosting with his giant can of mace.


Are you giving credence to the shooter knowing that he touched the victim's weapon after being slapped and recoiling from the impact? Particularly right after you just cast doubt regarding his capabilities? Wouldn't it be more likely that this brushing across (if it is even that much) wouldn't even register because he just got slapped in the face, knocking his glasses askew and him back/to the side? The victim never reached for or pulled his weapon at any time did he?

I get it, you are looking at this from what the defense might/will do, not necessarily advocating for the shooter. Same here but from the other side. IMO, the victim acted a fool, let his buttons get pushed and now he's dead because of it. He had a hand in his own demise.

I'm kind of curious regarding the role of Mr. BGM in this. Not that it is necessarily material in the case but what was going on here? What was the lead up to his shouting match with the Trumpers? Did he approach them, did they approach him? Who instigated that confrontation that jacked everyone else up? How did the Denver Press just happen to be here at the time to the lead up and to include the shooting? More curious than trying to make a case for one side or the other. This whole thing needs to get untangled because it's a mess. Cases like this are interesting, just from an all around standpoint but the results are awful for all involved.
 
I honestly can believe that about officers, though a couple I shoot with sometimes are very good. I've heard as much from them in the past. But I would expect an armed gaurd who doesn't enjoy the same perks and leeway of being an offer to be an expert marksman. At least if it were me I know I would.
Yea, I should have used different wording. I'm sure there are a lot of guys that do practice on their own. Should have said "it wouldn't surprise me if they're not very proficient."
 
You’re still ignoring the fact that he’s actively being maced and just got bitch slapped right in the ear hole.
I see that, he got slapped and immediately went for a gun, not a good look for him. The sequence of events and how they played out look to me like he got slapped, got mad and shot. That's not politics that's interpreting emotion. It's going to come down to the people representing the sides here and there veracity in prosecuting slash defending it. It's not cut and dried. I'm giving you my interpretations based on what I see and what I know as an avid shooter.
 
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I see that, he got slapped and immediately went for a gun, not a good look for him. The sequence of events and how they played out look to me like he got slapped, got mad and shot. That's not politics that's interpreting emotion. It's going to come down to the people representing the sides here and there veracity in prosecuting slash defending it. It's not cut and dried. I'm giving you my interpretations based on what I see and what I know as an avid shooter.
In one of the video clips it sounded like the victim said something to the BLM guy about getting someone to come up behind the BLM guy and putting a gun to his head. Then he hits someone else all while having a weapon. I think there’s enough there to give the shooter some ability to defend himself.
 

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