NCAA rules against Tn. No bowl ban

#127
#127
ShelbourneVol said:
2 or 3 a year depending on the year, but after 4 years of a 2 per year loss of scholarships is still a loss of 8 scholarship players after 4 years. 85 players becomes 77 players. Am I missing something here? I know NIL can try to make up the difference, but it’s still a hit.
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Yeah, I think the loss of "a scholarship" is one scholarship for one year. So if we limited ourselves to 83 in 2023, and 83 in 2024, and 83 in 2025, that's already 6 of the 12 paid off.

That's how I think they're counted for this purpose.
 
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#128
#128
AllThingsTN said:
All of the people crapping on Fulmer in here need to grow up. Did he do a good job as AD? No. Should he have ever been given that title? No. (And it’s not like we had a plethora of great coaches beating the door down to take the job).

That’s like being mad at the the person who sold you a new car that turned out to be a lemon, instead of being mad at the company that manufactured the car. But crapping on one of the best coaches we have ever had, who gave us over a decade in the upper echelon of the sport, and who brought us a national title. You all can get bent.
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Spare me. Fulmer either knew about all the mess going on and ignored it or he was guilty of gross negligence in not monitoring the cheatingest coach in UT (and possibly NCAA) history. There are no other choices. Complicit or dumb as a bag of hammers. Which is it?
 
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#130
#130
Delmar said:
Big props to Donde Plowman for her handling of this mess. Frankly I had no idea that it was as bad as it was.
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Think about the stuff that did not come out. Just imagine...........:oops:




Also...........Let's not pretend it was only JP and UT staff..............It's everywhere, and just as bad at a lot of places.
 
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#131
#131
Delmar said:
Spare me. Fulmer either knew about all the mess going on and ignored it or he was guilty of gross negligence in not monitoring the cheatingest coach in UT (and possibly NCAA) history. There are no other choices. Complicit or dumb as a bag of hammers. Which is it?
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This^
No excuse for any AD in that situation.
Willful ignorance imo………
 
#132
#132
peaygolf said:
Think about the stuff that did not come out. Just imagine...........:oops:




Also...........Let's not pretend it was only JP and UT staff..............It's everywhere, and just as bad at a lot of places.
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Well sure it was rampant. The NIL thing just puts it out in the open now. JP was just abundantly stupid about it and wasn’t good at hiding it. And he couldn’t even win with blatant cheating. How bad is that?
 
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#133
#133
Delmar said:
Well sure it was rampant. The NIL thing just puts it out in the open now. JP was just abundantly stupid about it and wasn’t good at hiding it. And he couldn’t even win with blatant cheating. How bad is that?
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garbage-kevin.gif




PS/Edit:

I'll get blasted for this.....and I don't care.......but I liked it better when it was under the table tbh. I HATE NIL.
 
#134
#134
Delmar said:
Spare me. Fulmer either knew about all the mess going on and ignored it or he was guilty of gross negligence in not monitoring the cheatingest coach in UT (and possibly NCAA) history. There are no other choices. Complicit or dumb as a bag of hammers. Which is it?
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My mother-in-law (who doesn't follow sports, at all) made a similar point yesterday as the rest of us were talking about the news. The point she meant to make, in the form of a question, was: how could the university possibly not know Pruitt was giving money to recruits?!?

So I gave her one simple example of this form of cheating: Pruitt, or Niedermeyer, or anyone involved, jumps in his car and drives down to Georgia on a recruiting trip. Stops in the parking lot of a Pro Bass shop where a highly anticipated recruit and his dad are parked. Walks up to their car, leans in, says hello, and hands them a paper bag. Inside is $10,000 in cash. After chatting for a bit, gets back in his car and heads off to meet with some other recruit and his family, the next town over.

Where in all that does the university get any inkling it is happening? It's not like there are body cams on our coaching staff, or they're being followed by drones. As long as the folks involved keep their mouths shut in front of folks not involved (this is apparently how they got caught; someone was joking about cheating in ear shot of a 3rd party), the university will be none the wiser.

It doesn't take many of these stops to spend the $60k revealed by the investigation. It's not like there was a factory line process where people were coming and going, something impossible to miss. This is probably all happening off campus, and much of it far from Knoxville in the recruits' home towns.

There were, of course, as many as 200 violations mentioned. But only 11 of them were the serious ones, the ones involving money changing hands and the like. Probably the vast majority of the rest were improper phone calls and texts at times it wasn't allowed, that sort of thing, which would all come out from the investigators looking through staff phone logs.

In short, to assume the university--Fulmer, Plowman, Boyd, whoever--would somehow surely be aware, that way overestimates real-time situational awareness by people on the periphery of things. There's a whole lot of "fog of war" keeping stuff veiled.

Go Vols!
 
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#135
#135
VFL-82-JP said:
My mother-in-law (who doesn't follow sports, at all) made a similar point yesterday as the rest of us were talking about the news. The point she meant to make, in the form of a question, was: how could the university possibly not know Pruitt was giving money to recruits?!?

So I gave her one simple example of this form of cheating: Pruitt, or Niedermeyer, or anyone involved, jumps in his car and drives down to Georgia on a recruiting trip. Stops in the parking lot of a Pro Bass shop where a highly anticipated recruit and his dad are parked. Walks up to their car, leans in, says hello, and hands them a paper bag. Inside is $10,000 in cash. After chatting for a bit, gets back in his car and heads off to meet with some other recruit and his family, the next town over.

Where in all that does the university get any inkling it is happening? It's not like there are body cams on our coaching staff, or they're being followed by drones. As long as the folks involved keep their mouths shut in front of folks not involved (this is apparently how they got caught; someone was joking about cheating in ear shot of a 3rd party), the university will be none the wiser.

It doesn't take many of these stops to spend the $60k revealed by the investigation. It's not like there was a factory line process where people were coming and going, something impossible to miss. This is probably all happening off campus, and much of it far from Knoxville in the recruits' home towns.

There were, of course, as many as 200 violations mentioned. But only 11 of them were the serious ones, the ones involving money changing hands and the like. Probably the vast majority of the rest were improper phone calls and texts at times it wasn't allowed, that sort of thing, which would all come out from the investigators looking through staff phone logs.

In short, to assume the university--Fulmer, Plowman, Boyd, whoever--would somehow surely be aware, that way overestimates real-time situational awareness by people on the periphery of things. There's a whole lot of "fog of war" keeping stuff veiled.

Go Vols!
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That is one scenario of many.

It is reasonable to question Fulmer's character assessment skills. I understand that his pool of candidates was small but he should have better understood the man he hired.

It shouldn't take much situational awareness to question how Pruitt was able to produce a Top 10 (Rivals) class during that time.

I think Fulmer was fighting a dumpster fire with a squirt gun and got burned.
 
#136
#136
The NCAA will require Tennessee to vacate all wins and individual records in any game in which 16 individual sanctioned players participated. The specific games will be announced later, but sources told ESPN that any wins that are vacated would come from Pruitt's three seasons as coach and not from the past two seasons under Josh Heupel.

Would love it if they announced the 16 players. I would wager a large bet that a good number of them transferred out like Toots
 
#138
#138
Read a clip from a Marvin West article and he states that the $8M fine was roughly the equivalent in loss to a 2 yr bowl ban which this type of scandal would have carried. Supposedly for TN cooperation in the investigation and the NCAA's revised punishment rules not to punish the program's coaches and players that were not involved in the scandal they made the bowl ban an upfront cash penalty. Pruitt's punishment is apparently very severe for a coach.
 
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