NCAA strikes again

[McCat]

Why did you leave out the 85-86 season when Sutton led UK to 30+ wins and an Elite Eight berth? Selective memory? I guess you've missed all the success of teams in the Big 8/12 in the last 15 years. You must not really follow college basketball.

Quite accidental omission, to be honest. But, he had a helluva team that he inherited from Joe Hall.

Lexvol is correct. His legacy is that he is not loved in Lexington.

 

[OldVol]

Some of you guys seem to miss the fact that not all schools are equal in their ability to interpret and respond to the NCAA's enforcement arm.

As is the case in the legal world, not all arguments are equal, nor are all who attempt to do so equal.

Some schools do a better job of responding than others and that is just the simple truth of it. That's not the fault of the NCAA.

 

[Lexvol]

Some of you guys seem to miss the fact that not all schools are equal in their ability to interpret and respond to the NCAA's enforcement arm.

As is the case in the legal world, not all arguments are equal, nor are all who attempt to do so equal.

Some schools do a better job of responding than others and that is just the simple truth of it. That's not the fault of the NCAA.

Kantucki can't not get gud reprasantaiton? Wat is the problum?

 

[Lexvol]

I have mentioned this before on this board. The NCAA killed what was left of the UK program just a few years ago over a money order to a player in Memphis. The justification for the harsh punishment was "lack of institutional control".

That same language was recently applied to the case in South Carolina, where Lou Holtz was running wild. Now that St. Steve is there "cleaning things up" and improving television ratings, SC loses a few scholly's and suffers no post season penalties. That may suggest that the SEC office also did some bidding for SC. Either way, because "lack of institutional control" was also cited in the SC case, how is it that they barely suffer at all? The punishments are unfairly administered by the NCAA.

That doesn't mean that rules don't apply. That doesn't mean that I think that the NCAA should be nuked as others have suggested. However, it is hard to justify most of their decisions.

 

[hatvol96]

Some of you guys seem to miss the fact that not all schools are equal in their ability to interpret and respond to the NCAA's enforcement arm.

As is the case in the legal world, not all arguments are equal, nor are all who attempt to do so equal.

Some schools do a better job of responding than others and that is just the simple truth of it. That's not the fault of the NCAA.

That's not exactly accurate. A huge part of escaping NCAA sanctions is cronyism. Texas escaped the 'AA guillotine in the '80s and '90s, a period when the rest of the SWC and OU and OSU got slapped, due to Deloss Dodds having close ties with members of the infractions committee. Doug Dickey was similarly able to help UT avoid the substantial penalties meted out to other schools for the same infractions Tennessee was found to have committed.

 

[hatvol96]

Quite accidental omission, to be honest. But, he had a helluva team that he inherited from Joe Hall.

Lexvol is correct. His legacy is that he is not loved in Lexington.

You mean the team that won 18 games and got knocked out in the second round in '84-'85?

 

[hatvol96]

I have mentioned this before on this board. The NCAA killed what was left of the UK program just a few years ago over a money order to a player in Memphis. The justification for the harsh punishment was "lack of institutional control".

That same language was recently applied to the case in South Carolina, where Lou Holtz was running wild. Now that St. Steve is there "cleaning things up" and improving television ratings, SC loses a few scholly's and suffers no post season penalties. That may suggest that the SEC office also did some bidding for SC. Either way, because "lack of institutional control" was also cited in the SC case, how is it that they barely suffer at all? The punishments are unfairly administered by the NCAA.

That doesn't mean that rules don't apply. That doesn't mean that I think that the NCAA should be nuked as others have suggested. However, it is hard to justify most of their decisions.

Nuking is too good for the 'AA. I think a trip to Abu Grahib is in order for Myles Brand, David Berst, Chuck Smrt, and the rest of the enforcement staff. As an aside, would anyone want to be investigated by a guy named Smrt? If he's not intelligent enough to realize his last name is missing vowels, how can he be expected to interpret complex regulations?

 

[hatvol96]

I have mentioned this before on this board. The NCAA killed what was left of the UK program just a few years ago over a money order to a player in Memphis. The justification for the harsh punishment was "lack of institutional control".

That same language was recently applied to the case in South Carolina, where Lou Holtz was running wild. Now that St. Steve is there "cleaning things up" and improving television ratings, SC loses a few scholly's and suffers no post season penalties. That may suggest that the SEC office also did some bidding for SC. Either way, because "lack of institutional control" was also cited in the SC case, how is it that they barely suffer at all? The punishments are unfairly administered by the NCAA.

That doesn't mean that rules don't apply. That doesn't mean that I think that the NCAA should be nuked as others have suggested. However, it is hard to justify most of their decisions.

The 'AAs refusal to take action against John Wooden's UCLA teams for the involvement of mobster Sam Gilbert in paying players is Exhibit #1 for the phenomenon you describe.

 

[OldVol]

That's not exactly accurate. A huge part of escaping NCAA sanctions is cronyism. Texas escaped the 'AA guillotine in the '80s and '90s, a period when the rest of the SWC and OU and OSU got slapped, due to Deloss Dodds having close ties with members of the infractions committee. Doug Dickey was similarly able to help UT avoid the substantial penalties meted out to other schools for the same infractions Tennessee was found to have committed.

Cronyism is often an excuse used by those who are either; unable to prepare an adequate response to the enforcement branch, are not as thorough-forthcoming-and honest in their responses, or are just guilty as sin and use the cronyism excuse because someone else was all of the previous or not as guilty as those who got slapped.

I'm not going to refute that Dickey helped us, and I'm not a fan of his, actually just the opposite, but I do give him is due in all instances where questions were raised he did a thourough job in preparing his cases and he got the same results any other school would have gotten, all things being equal.

The NCAA, regardless of all the hoopla by fans, is not in the business to punish its members.

Think about it.

 

[Lexvol]

The NCAA, regardless of all the hoopla by fans, is not in the business to punish its members.

Think about it.

OK I have thought about it . If the perception of most people is that they do exist to punish members haven't they gone wrong somewhere? I rarely talk to anyone about the NCAA who doesn't mention the need for reform in its systems.

 

[OldVol]

OK I have thought about it . If the perception of most people is that they do exist to punish members haven't they gone wrong somewhere? I rarely talk to anyone about the NCAA who doesn't mention the need for reform in its systems.

It makes absolutely no sense that they exist to punish their members. It makes far more sense that most fans want their teams to win at any cost and that includes the NCAA turning their heads when it's their turn to pay the piper.

Alabama used the cronyism excuse. That was a real valid argument, wasn't it?

When violations are minor there is usually a reasonable response and penalty.

All violations, like all institutions, are not equal.

Rather than believe the NCAA exists to punish their members it makes more sense to believe they exist to punish the rule breakers.

It's really that simple.

If the rules need reform, then the member institutions have the ability to bring that about.

If that includes a break from the NCAA by the major players, so be it.

Until that happens everyone should play by the same rulebook. They all have a copy and there's no excuse to break the rules.