New Bailout Package Passes (in the Senate)

#26
#26
lawgator1 said:
I find the pork projects and earmarks disgusting, as well. There are things in there sought by members of both parties so you can't blame one or the other. But it is more than a little disappointing that Senators, instead of voting the proposal up or down, had to go in to the bill and basically pay off those members of the House who threatened to withhold their votes unless they got their pet project.

The Senate was basically blackmailed into that position by the House and both the President and the leaders of both parties are having to cave in and allow small groups of House members to hold them up for these projects.

I hope that when this is over someone publishes a well researched report on which members of Congress demanded that thier little project get in there so that they would vote for it. That would tell you who really abused this process for their own ends.
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I don't know that the Senate was blackmailed. The objections to the the original bill were justified in some cases - some were based on philosophical differences on the role of government and some were objections to pork in the original - I've got no complaint about either of those objections.

What the Senate did do is glom on a package that they had been kicking around and are essentially forcing it on the House under the guise of "getting something done". Some would say the Senate is blackmailing the House because many of these provisions were not going to make it through the house.

Both chambers of Congress played this game and each is leveraging the other. Likewise, both parties have people that stood on philosophical principle with regard to the current crisis solution (good for them) and jack-wads that used this as an opportunity to get some for themselves (shame on them).
 
#30
#30
I still don't see how this bill is fixing anything. It looks to me like it's propping up the prices of real estate/housing that's going to fall eventually regardless. Just temporary stability.
 
#31
#31
TheDeeble said:
I still don't see how this bill is fixing anything. It looks to me like it's propping up the prices of real estate/housing that's going to fall eventually regardless. Just temporary stability.
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Not true. The real estate market has fundamentals that drive it as well.

The bottom line is that pricing has to be affordable to typical buyers of the particular type of property. Exotic financing can't replace ability to pay, period.

Construction costs also have a floor, so folks just can't produce the product under a certain point. That number, plus a profit margin will dictate the price of new housing, which is often a trendsetter for existing housing.

Allowing lenders to put money back into the marketplace will set the level. Right now, the lack of bidders and forced liquidations are setting the base levels, which are completely whacked.
 
#32
#32
BigPapaVol said:
Not true. The real estate market has fundamentals that drive it as well.

The bottom line is that pricing has to be affordable to typical buyers of the particular type of property. Exotic financing can't replace ability to pay, period.

Construction costs also have a floor, so folks just can't produce the product under a certain point. That number, plus a profit margin will dictate the price of new housing, which is often a trendsetter for existing housing.

Allowing lenders to put money back into the marketplace will set the level. Right now, the lack of bidders and forced liquidations are setting the base levels, which are completely whacked.
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Well, they're not "whacked" if the universe of buyers out there is so much smaller than the universe of sellers that the buyers are content buying the forced liquidations.

I understand the notion that greater liquidity in the credit markets means more potential qualifying buyers. And the higher the demand the more the new home building and selling sets the floor for pricing, even for previously existing homes.

But itsn't it also the case that if the number of existing homes is so large that it can more than accomodate the buyers (even the new ones) then all we are talking about here is propping up prices that inevitably have to fall?

The choice between a new car and a used car is a short-time frame, relatively speaking. Buy a new one and get five years out of it. Buy a used and get three. So they turn over a ton and once the five is up, they don't stay in the market much at all.

But a used home can be there for 30 years or more, with plenty of different owners. Seems to me that eventually we will have so many pre-existing houses that the need for new ones simply won't be there, and as a consequence prices will be determined by the liquidations.
 
#33
#33
lawgator1 said:
But itsn't it also the case that if the number of existing homes is so large that it can more than accomodate the buyers (even the new ones) then all we are talking about here is propping up prices that inevitably have to fall?
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in short, no. That's media fantasy, driven by no attempt at understanding numerator and denominator in the absorption equation.
 
#34
#34
The "sweetened" deal that passed the senate grew to $850 Billion, with the extra $150 Billion being pork added to sell votes. If this is true it is insane, and what's more, both candidates are supporting this piece of garbage.

We may see this bill passing in the House with a price tag upwards of $1 Trillion. Crap, complete crap. We should get rid of all these morons.

Call your representative and senator and let them know how you feel about it:

Contacting the Congress
 
#35
#35
And there wasn't any KY added to the plan either. Bend over citizens, grab your ankles and act like you like it.
 
#36
#36
Are there some tax breaks that are being counted against the 150 billion extra? I thought that I heard something about that...
 
#38
#38
As mad as I was about the ACORN pork on the last bill I am just as mad if not more about the pork on this one! We need politicians with common sense who haven't been bought by special interest and lobbyists!
 
#39
#39
The credit markets are still froze, the credit spread needs to come down to get this thing going. Looks like a ugly day on the street today. *sigh*
 
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