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#26
#26
bleedingTNorange said:
It doesn't matter who is responsible, Donovan is there still and UF has built a tradition.

As I said, without winning or tradition it's hard to do much, even if you have top notch facilities.

Tennessee needs to win, that's the bottom line.
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That was my point.....winning creates tradition.....Billy Donovan created the tradition that Florida has.
 
#28
#28
bleedingTNorange said:
What does it matter?

I said they have tradition and winning, regardless of if Donovan left tomorrow they have now built the rep.
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And that is my point, although winning and tradition helps, the right coach can create the winning and tradition.
 
#29
#29
volbeast33 said:
And that is my point, although winning and tradition helps, the right coach can create the winning and tradition.
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Ok we're going in circles.

Take CCM for example, he'll have to win and build that before its just anointed to him and the university.

My point was, just because we have good facilities doesn't mean we should be expected to automatically pull top recruiting classes and only top level guys. If you don't have tradition and winning as selling points, it's hard to recruit at that level, no matter what your facilities are.
 
#30
#30
volbeast33 said:
If we are still making nits in four seasons....zo will be fired so obviously the administration agrees with us....Zo stated his goal was winning a championship.....you don't play the game with any less of a goal....you might not have a realistic chance of making it but you always strive for it.
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Whose talking about NIT's for 4 years. You guys are going on about final fours like UT has actually ever been to one. And fans should be smart enough to seperate reality from coach-speak.
 
#31
#31
rocky200663 said:
I don't get where you're coming from. According to you our facilities suck, we shouldn't aim at trying to compete for championships and we shouldn't set foot in Memphis in recruiting despite the fact its the biggest hotbed of talent in this state for basketball. Just explain what you're trying to say. But nothing wrong with having goals(even if as you say they're unattainable)
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The reason you don't get where I am coming from, is I didn't say any of those things. Either you're prone to exaggeration or you don't comprehend well. Either way until you can fix that problem we can't really have an intelligent discussion.
 
#32
#32
zansdad said:
Whose talking about NIT's for 4 years. You guys are going on about final fours like UT has actually ever been to one. And fans should be smart enough to seperate reality from coach-speak.
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Have you ever played sports......the goal is always to be the national champion.....there is no other reason to play. I stated you can't have a good season without qualifying for the NCAA touney....I said you were arguing semantics bc the other guy stated we should be fighting to make the final four every yr not that we would make it to the final four every yr......I think Pearl had us in position to fight for final fours bc we were in position to get there with a few breaks.
 
#33
#33
volbeast33 said:
Have you ever played sports......the goal is always to be the national champion.....there is no other reason to play. I stated you can't have a good season without qualifying for the NCAA touney....I said you were arguing semantics bc the other guy stated we should be fighting to make the final four every yr not that we would make it to the final four every yr......I think Pearl had us in position to fight for final fours bc we were in position to get there with a few breaks.
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Why does it matter if I have played sports? There are plenty of goals besides a national championship. As a matter of fact most teams play every year with a very real understanding they will not win any type championship. As far as arguing semantics, what was put forth was UT should be competing for final fours every year. This is just unrealistic. UT has made exactly 1 elite 8 in its history and you guys want to talk about competing for final fours? That's not semantics. That's me arguing realistic vs unrealistic. And Pearl was actually getting further away from final 4's not closer. His last 3 seasons were worse than his 1st three. The elite 8 run (from a 6 seed) was more of a perfect storm than a step forward for the program.
 
#34
#34
zansdad said:
Why does it matter if I have played sports? There are plenty of goals besides a national championship. As a matter of fact most teams play every year with a very real understanding they will not win any type championship. As far as arguing semantics, what was put forth was UT should be competing for final fours every year. This is just unrealistic. UT has made exactly 1 elite 8 in its history and you guys want to talk about competing for final fours? That's not semantics. That's me arguing realistic vs unrealistic. And Pearl was actually getting further away from final 4's not closer. His last 3 seasons were worse than his 1st three. The elite 8 run (from a 6 seed) was more of a perfect storm than a step forward for the program.
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You don't have to remind me that we have failed to reach our goal every single yr we have had a basketball program....yes there are smaller goals and each one is a stepping stone to the main goal to be the national champion. Every single game the goal is to win....then to be conf champions.....then to be conf tourney champions, qualify for the ncaa touney and then to be national champion.
 
#35
#35
zansdad said:
Why does it matter if I have played sports? There are plenty of goals besides a national championship. As a matter of fact most teams play every year with a very real understanding they will not win any type championship. As far as arguing semantics, what was put forth was UT should be competing for final fours every year. This is just unrealistic. UT has made exactly 1 elite 8 in its history and you guys want to talk about competing for final fours? That's not semantics. That's me arguing realistic vs unrealistic. And Pearl was actually getting further away from final 4's not closer. His last 3 seasons were worse than his 1st three. The elite 8 run (from a 6 seed) was more of a perfect storm than a step forward for the program.
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Dumb.

It's not unrealistic for a team's goal to be national champions or Final Four contenders. It's unrealistic to expect that every year.

If you can't discern those two differences from the posts above, then we can't have an intelligent conversation here.
 
#36
#36
JoseDaMofo said:
Dumb.

It's not unrealistic for a team's goal to be national champions or Final Four contenders. It's unrealistic to expect that every year.

If you can't discern those two differences from the posts above, then we can't have an intelligent conversation here.
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I get what you're saying, but you have to realize as a program we have only made one elite eight. Ever.
 
#37
#37
VolsFan4Ever-11 said:
I get what you're saying, but you have to realize as a program we have only made one elite eight. Ever.
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Our failure as a program still doesn't change the goal every season....several nfl teams haven't won the superbowl but it remains all of the teams goal....A lot of our fans seem to have a defeatist type attitude.....expect to lose and you will always lose.
 
#38
#38
volbeast33 said:
Our failure as a program still doesn't change the goal every season....several nfl teams haven't won the superbowl but it remains all of the teams goal....A lot of our fans seem to have a defeatist type attitude.....expect to lose and you will always lose.
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Who says that isn't our goal? You think the Charlotte Bobcats or Gamecocks bball team weren't trying to win the NC when they had terrible records?
 
#39
#39
Chris4Vols22 said:
Who says that isn't our goal? You think the Charlotte Bobcats or Gamecocks bball team weren't trying to win the NC when they had terrible records?
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The people claiming its unrealistic and reminding us that we have only been to one great eight in our history.
 
#40
#40
VolsFan4Ever-11 said:
I get what you're saying, but you have to realize as a program we have only made one elite eight. Ever.
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And that is acknowledged.

However, the goal of this program is to become contenders of the NC. Regardless of past victories and accomplishments, that's the direction this program should strive to move towards.

It truly is that simple.
 
#41
#41
volbeast33 said:
The people claiming its unrealistic and reminding us that we have only been to one great eight in our history.
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Yeah, we are realistic when we make our predictions, but obviously the goal is to win an NC. I have no idea why you think the opposite. That goes without saying.
 
#42
#42
volbeast33 said:
Our failure as a program still doesn't change the goal every season....several nfl teams haven't won the superbowl but it remains all of the teams goal....A lot of our fans seem to have a defeatist type attitude.....expect to lose and you will always lose.
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Comparing NFL, or any professional sport for that matter, to collegiate sports is really a stretch. Being one of 32 teams gives you much greater odds for starters. Secondly, it is a much more level playing field for professional franchises through free agency and the draft. Much more level than the recruiting process of collegiate sports.
 
#43
#43
cncchris33 said:
Comparing NFL, or any professional sport for that matter, to collegiate sports is really a stretch. Being one of 32 teams gives you much greater odds for starters. Secondly, it is a much more level playing field for professional franchises through free agency and the draft. Much more level than the recruiting process of collegiate sports.
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You mean the citadel doesn't come into the season with the goal of winning it all?
 
#44
#44
Chris4Vols22 said:
Yeah, we are realistic when we make our predictions, but obviously the goal is to win an NC. I have no idea why you think the opposite. That goes without saying.
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You think Martin started last season with the goal of winning a national championship?
 
#46
#46
volbeast33 said:
The people claiming its unrealistic and reminding us that we have only been to one great eight in our history.
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No, I'm saying it's unrealistic to expect UT to compete for final fours on a consistant basis. The key words here are expect and consistent. I understand every coach in America writes "championship" up on the board as a team goal every year. But that is not what this is about. This started with the poster saying Martin "has to" compete consistently for final fours, which I still say is delusional and unrealistic.
 
#47
#47
rocky200663 said:
Excuse me but other than Kentucky maybe who has better facilities for basketball than Tennessee? Nobody in the SEC outside of Ky does. And if we aren't striving to reach the Final 4 then what are we doing? Please explain I am interested.
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All Tennessee needs to do right now is stop the ship from rocking and establish some consistancy. I'm sure we are striving to reach the final four every year (like every other team) but it's not a win / lose situation if we don't. Just making strides is important IMO and that starts with winning a few SEC titles and making runs in the tournament.

As far as facilities, UT isn't no where near the top. We got nice facilities but you could argue that Bud Walton, Rupp, and Auburn Arena are nicer in the SEC and I wouldn't even put us in the top 15 in the country.
 
#50
#50
zansdad said:
Okay, let me rephrase it, do you believe Martin realistically thought he could win a national championship last year?
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Probably not, just like any other sane person would think. Doesn't change the fact that it was still the primary objective.
 
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