NIL final thoughts

[Brave Volunteer]

Those playing and coaching are far more invested in the process so the big payoff should be their needs, not ours.

Lol I guarantee you that no coach in college football today supports unlimited transfers. It makes their job 2x harder because they not only have to recruit new players, they now have to re-recruit their existing players. Personally I think THAT is unreasonable!

All this policy does is indulge the fickle and self-centered nature of young 18-21 year old men.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Lol I guarantee you that no coach in college football today supports unlimited transfers. It makes their job 2x harder because they not only have to recruit new players, they now have to re-recruit their existing players. Personally I think THAT is unreasonable!

All this policy does is indulge the fickle and self-centered nature of young 18-21 year old men.

Why do you think Tennessee joined the WV lawsuit which led to the transfer rules of the NCAA being dropped? Do you think the AG of TN (and a lot of other states with big state school football teams) had nothing better to do?

UT was very strong toward the NCAA in the response to investigation AND almost immediately the state of TN sued the NCAA over NIL.

You think there's no discussion between the school and the Attorney General about these legal issues?

 

[Brave Volunteer]

Why do you think Tennessee joined the WV lawsuit which led to the transfer rules of the NCAA being dropped?Do you think the AG of TN (and a lot of other states with big state school football teams) had nothing better to do?

UT was very strong toward the NCAA in the response to investigation AND almost immediately the state of TN sued the NCAA over NIL.

You think there's no discussion between the school and the Attorney General about these legal issues?

Waaaaa??

I didn't think that had anything to do with the transfer rule. I thought it had to do with Tennessee defending against potential sanctions from the NCAA regarding NIL and the recruitment of Nico. I'll admit, I didnt read every little piece of documentation that was made available to the public, but I don't recall any of the media outlets even mentioning the transfer portal as being a part of this.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Waaaaa??

I didn't think that had anything to do with the transfer rule. I thought it had to do with Tennessee defending against potential sanctions from the NCAA regarding NIL and the recruitment of Nico. I'll admit, I didnt read every little piece of documentation that was made available to the public, but I don't recall any of the media outlets even mentioning the transfer portal as being a part of this.

The NCAA is being sued repeatedly and losing. The transfer rules were "suspended" based on this case.

Tennessee joined the case.

Quote edited in:
"Six states — Ohio, West Virginia, Tennessee, Illinois, Colorado and New York — had filed against the NCAA’s second-transfer rule and what they termed the NCAA’s “retaliation rule.” The latter rule allows the NCAA to vacate results if a player first is found eligible under the second transfer rule, but then a later finding wipes that eligibility away, Bailey was told."

Tennessee is knee deep in suing over transfer rules too. Why do you think that's happening?

West Virginia fed judge sets aside NCAA second-transfer rule for 14 days

WHEELING, W.Va. (WV News) — A federal judge in West Virginia has set aside the NCAA’s enforcement of its second-transfer rule for 14 days, pending another hearing.

www.wvnews.com

 

[Brave Volunteer]

The NCAA is being sued repeatedly and losing. The transfer rules were "suspended" based on this case.

Tennessee joined the case.

Quote edited in:
"Six states — Ohio, West Virginia, Tennessee, Illinois, Colorado and New York — had filed against the NCAA’s second-transfer rule and what they termed the NCAA’s “retaliation rule.” The latter rule allows the NCAA to vacate results if a player first is found eligible under the second transfer rule, but then a later finding wipes that eligibility away, Bailey was told."

Tennessee is knee deep in suing over transfer rules too. Why do you think that's happening?

West Virginia fed judge sets aside NCAA second-transfer rule for 14 days

WHEELING, W.Va. (WV News) — A federal judge in West Virginia has set aside the NCAA’s enforcement of its second-transfer rule for 14 days, pending another hearing.

www.wvnews.com

I agree that the transfer rules were suspended as a byproduct, based on the NCAA being sued. However, to suggest (if I'm reading you correctly), that it was a motivating factor in Tennessee and other schools pursuing these lawsuits, I don't think so. I think the UT AD looks at it more as a necessary evil in the wake of self-preservation. I guarantee you if the clock could be turned back and the transfer portal be Wiped from existence, every major AD in the country would take that deal!

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Waaaaa??

I didn't think that had anything to do with the transfer rule. I thought it had to do with Tennessee defending against potential sanctions from the NCAA regarding NIL and the recruitment of Nico. I'll admit, I didnt read every little piece of documentation that was made available to the public, but I don't recall any of the media outlets even mentioning the transfer portal as being a part of this.

Here's one from Tennessee, the state, itself.

It wasn't just a coincidence the Attorney General filed the NIL case after UT got word of an NCAA NIL investigation. You can bet Randy Boyd and Donde spoke with the AG.

I wonder why Tennessee got involved in the transfer case without the school being consulted or asked what was good for the school....... Hmmm. A good guess is: the school knew about the AG going after the transfer rules.

Bipartisan Antitrust Lawsuit Against NCAA Expands to 11 States Total, Plus US. Department of Justice

NASHVILLE—In a show of support for competition in the labor market, the United States Department of Justice has joined the multistate bipartisan antitrust lawsuit against the NCAA that was filed in December and joined by Tennessee Attorney General Jonathan Skrmetti. That lawsuit challenges the...

www.tn.gov

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I can't support the idea of unlimited transfers at no penalty. Unlike NIL, that does negatively alter part of the fan experience we previously enjoyed for so many years. It potentially creates an annual "revolving door" of players that fans can never endear themselves to like they could in the

Totally understand what you're saying, Brave.

And yet, my experience as a fan seems very different from yours.

I personally put less emphasis on the players as individuals. I'm more focused on them as a team. Once in a while I come to really like and follow an individual player--Jack Jones and Hendon Hooker have been two recent stand-outs--but mostly, I'm focused on the team.

So, for me, some players coming and going isn't that big a deal. It's simply not about them.

This is also why I'm not as eager as many of our fellow Vols fans to follow the continued careers of our players once they get to the NFL. It's just not that interesting to me.

I know that probably doesn't help you much (or any). But it is something worth considering if you're looking for a way to square the circle.

Go Vols!

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I agree that the transfer rules were suspended as a byproduct, based on the NCAA being sued. However, to suggest (if I'm reading you correctly), that it was a motivating factor in Tennessee and other schools pursuing these lawsuits, I don't think so. I think the UT AD looks at it more as a necessary evil in the wake of self-preservation. I guarantee you if the clock could be turned back and the transfer portal be Wiped from existence, every major AD in the country would take that deal!

I know it's trendy to blame the players but if you think these guys have a "hotline" to the Attorney General of Tennessee to get him to file lawsuits against the NCAA, you're mistaken.

Who does probably have a first name relationship with the Attorney General of Tennessee? Randy Boyd and Donde Plowman.

I'm doubting those "fickle and self centered 18-21 year olds" have s$&t to do with these lawsuits.

You're blaming the wrong people.

 

[volfan102455]

The NCAA is being sued repeatedly and losing. The transfer rules were "suspended" based on this case.

Tennessee joined the case.

Quote edited in:
"Six states — Ohio, West Virginia, Tennessee, Illinois, Colorado and New York — had filed against the NCAA’s second-transfer rule and what they termed the NCAA’s “retaliation rule.” The latter rule allows the NCAA to vacate results if a player first is found eligible under the second transfer rule, but then a later finding wipes that eligibility away, Bailey was told."

Tennessee is knee deep in suing over transfer rules too. Why do you think that's happening?

West Virginia fed judge sets aside NCAA second-transfer rule for 14 days

WHEELING, W.Va. (WV News) — A federal judge in West Virginia has set aside the NCAA’s enforcement of its second-transfer rule for 14 days, pending another hearing.

www.wvnews.com

The key is that the states are doing this to PROTECT themselves from sanctions. It has little to do with what they think is the best for the athletes. They may say that but the truth is they are concerned about retro-active violations resulting from a changed rule.

The NCAA is or was, we will see how they approach this going forward, is trying to put some much-needed controls over the wild wild west show. They are also trying to enforce rules around recruiting that have existed forever and remove the "loopholes" that boosters may be using in direct violation of those rules. Some of those rules do not conflict with NIL or anti-trust laws at all.

All this is just everyone involved trying to get a handle on the MESS that NIL is creating.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

Totally understand what you're saying, Brave.

And yet, my experience as a fan seems very different from yours.

I personally put less emphasis, in my life as a Volunteers fan, on the players as individuals. I'm more focused on them as a team, and to a lesser extent as a position group. Once in a while I come to really love an individual player--Jack Jones and Hendon Hooker have been two recent stand-outs--but mostly, I'm focused on the team.

So, for me, some players coming and going isn't that big a deal. It's simply not about them.

This is also why I'm not as eager as many of our fellow Vols fans to follow the continued careers of our players once they get to the NFL. It's just not that interesting to me.

I know that probably doesn't help you much (or any). But it is something worth considering if you're looking for a way to square the circle for yourself.

Go Vols!

I'm sure that's what everyone will have to do that wish to continue following UT football. And I'm not harboring any delusions of it going back to the way it was. That toothpaste is out of the tube and it aint going back. It's just unfortunate for us as fans because I think in the grand scheme it makes college football a worse product.

I was thinking the other day about the UT Sports Hall of Fame. Because of the transfer portal, will the time ever come when we have to start looking at inducting players based on what they did over a 1-2 year career instead of a 3-4 year career?

 

[volfan102455]

As for those who have no issue with players transferring at will - how you going to feel seeing a former player "smoke a cigar" at Bama? Or do the Gator Chop? Etc. When that happens, remember you said it did not matter.

 

[volfan102455]

I'm sure that's what everyone will have to do that wish to continue following UT football. And I'm not harboring any delusions of it going back to the way it was. That toothpaste is out of the tube and it aint going back. It's just unfortunate for us as fans because I think in the grand scheme it makes college football a worse product.

I was thinking the other day about the UT Sports Hall of Fame. Because of the transfer portal, will the time ever come when we have to start looking at inducting players based on what they did over a 1-2 year career instead of a 3-4 year career?

They will induct the ones that were loyal to the university.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

The key is that the states are doing this to PROTECT themselves from sanctions. It has little to do with what they think is the best for the athletes. They may say that but the truth is they are concerned about retro-active violations resulting from a changed rule.

The NCAA is or was, we will see how they approach this going forward, is trying to put some much-needed controls over the wild wild west show. They are also trying to enforce rules around recruiting that have existed forever and remove the "loopholes" that boosters may be using in direct violation of those rules. Some of those rules do not conflict with NIL or anti-trust laws at all.

All this is just everyone involved trying to get a handle on the MESS that NIL is creating.

The key is: the states are doing this because the schools DON'T WANT THE TRANSFER RULES AND NIL REGULATIONS TO BE IN PLACE.

So, yeah, they don't want to get sanctioned because they want to not obey those rules.

You're ridiculous. I want the speed limit changed because I want to drive faster....... not to protect myself from tickets. I want to speed.

The schools WANT the transfers and free use of NIL. It's obvious the states are doing the bidding of the schools. I really, really, REALLY, REALLY doubt the players are calling up the Attorney General of Tennessee.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

The key is: the states are doing this because the schools DON'T WANT THE TRANSFER RULES AND NIL REGULATIONS TO BE IN PLACE.

So, yeah, they don't want to get sanctioned because they want to not obey those rules.

You're ridiculous. I want the speed limit changed because I want to drive faster....... not to protect myself from tickets. I want to speed.

The schools WANT the transfers and free use of NIL. It's obvious the states are doing the bidding of the schools. I really, really, REALLY, REALLY doubt the players are calling up the Attorney General of Tennessee.

You keep tieing the transfer portal and NIL together as if the universities equally support both. I don't agree. The transfer portal may be an unfortunate byproduct of this whole thing that the universities cannot untether, but to say the universities openly and willingly advocate for it, I think thats a bit of a stretch. Why would ANY AD advocate for a policy that is clearly not in their best interest? I think they see it as a terrible nuisance and would undo it if they could.

 

[volfan102455]

The key is: the states are doing this because the schools DON'T WANT THE TRANSFER RULES AND NIL REGULATIONS TO BE IN PLACE.

So, yeah, they don't want to get sanctioned because they want to not obey those rules.

You're ridiculous. I want the speed limit changed because I want to drive faster....... not to protect myself from tickets. I want to speed.

The schools WANT the transfers and free use of NIL. It's obvious the states are doing the bidding of the schools. I really, really, REALLY, REALLY doubt the players are calling up the Attorney General of Tennessee.

You just like to argue. UT doesn't want the RETROACTIVE NATURE of the rule. I can guarantee you most schools do want guidelines over the transfers and NIL. You really believe CJH likes the idea of having to "start over" each year with new players which watching a player he coached up go somewhere else? How did that work out for Colorado? If that is what the university really wants then maybe all the schools should just throw all the players name's back into the pool every year and draft a new team? And the team with the WORST record gets the first choice.

The Attorney General is protecting themselves from lawsuits and/or payments to the NCAA. UT is a state supported school; they are not private. Anything that could result with the state having to pay out dollars is going to be challenged. They challenge will be based on what is perceived to be the best for the STATE. You can act like they have the interest of the players at heart - but that is not true - it is all about the money.

Schools do have academic rules around transfers - students must be eligible to attend the university and follow guidelines around when they can start classes at a school. They must be meeting the progression expectations at the university. There are also guidelines around how much and what type of financial aid a student can get based on how much they or their parents make. Those should apply as well.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

You keep tieing the transfer portal and NIL together as if the universities equally support both. I don't agree. The transfer portal may be an unfortunate byproduct of this whole thing that the universities cannot untether, but to say the universities openly and willingly advocate for it, I think thats a bit of a stretch. Why would ANY AD advocate for a policy that is clearly not in their best interest? I think they see it as a terrible nuisance and would undo it if they could.

Even when I show you the notice from the state that they're filing about TRANSFERS, you insist it's not about transfers.

Why do you THINK the AG of the state of TN is filing about transfers if the school DOESN'T want the transfer rules to go away?

Do you somehow want to say those "fickle and self centered 18-21 year olds" have more pull with the AG than the University of TN?

You people are blind with this and aren't looking at what strings the school is actually pulling in this. The state could stay out of the transfer case but it didn't.

Seriously, look at it honestly.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

You just like to argue. UT doesn't want the RETROACTIVE NATURE of the rule. I can guarantee you most schools do want guidelines over the transfers and NIL. You really believe CJH likes the idea of having to "start over" each year with new players which watching a player he coached up go somewhere else? How did that work out for Colorado? If that is what the university really wants then maybe all the schools should just throw all the players name's back into the pool every year and draft a new team? And the team with the WORST record gets the first choice.

The Attorney General is protecting themselves from lawsuits and/or payments to the NCAA. UT is a state supported school; they are not private. Anything that could result with the state having to pay out dollars is going to be challenged. They challenge will be based on what is perceived to be the best for the STATE. You can act like they have the interest of the players at heart - but that is not true - it is all about the money.

Schools do have academic rules around transfers - students must be eligible to attend the university and follow guidelines around when they can start classes at a school. They must be meeting the progression expectations at the university. There are also guidelines around how much and what type of financial aid a student can get based on how much they or their parents make. Those should apply as well.

Don't be daft.

UT HAD NIL issues that were retroactive. Agreed. I can very much agree about that lawsuit being for protection.

UT had ZERO....... COUNT THEM ZERO...... second transfer eligibility issues to worry about but STILL filed a lawsuit against the NCAA about 2nd transfers.

That's not about retroactive punishment. That's a preemptive strike to get the transfer rules changed to benefit UT.

There's nothing retroactive about transfers that's been suggested at UT. Nothing.

You're right about NIL. We agree. You're wrong about transfers. The school wants that rule to go away.

 

[Danl]

IF athletes were paid for the use of their name image or likeness and not paid to au football there would be no problems now. But it is no longer amateur sports, not at all.
For 8 mil I would expect to see Nico on tv advertising something even dishsoap. I should be able to buy a hoodie with a pic of Cam Seldon . Or somebody else selling insurance. But no images, likeness or names are being bought. It's simply pay for play, no NIL involved.

Here's just one example.

 

[tennesseeduke]

Why do you think Tennessee joined the WV lawsuit which led to the transfer rules of the NCAA being dropped? Do you think the AG of TN (and a lot of other states with big state school football teams) had nothing better to do?

UT was very strong toward the NCAA in the response to investigation AND almost immediately the state of TN sued the NCAA over NIL.

You think there's no discussion between the school and the Attorney General about these legal issues?

Sorry but that was not it at all.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Sorry but that was not it at all.

So why do you think the AG of TN filed a (separate from the NIL lawsuit which I agree was for protection from retroactive sanctions) lawsuit SPECIFICALLY naming multiple transfers?

What was it about if not getting rid of the transfer rule, as stated in the press release from the state I shared above?

 

[Gandalf]

If you're just a common fan, like most of us, what exactly does any of this change for you? Whether those players are paid a lot, a little, or none at all, why is it of our concern? The players are still expected to put the work in, show up on Saturdays, and fight for 4 quarters to get a victory. Likewise, we will continue to cheer for the Vols to win, whether it be in the stadium, at a sports bar, at home, at a tailgate, etc. Absolutely NONE of this NIL stuff changes anything for us as fans. What happens Sunday to Friday I couldn't care less. Now, if you're a big money donor, have a kid who's a college athlete, or are somehow involved in the program directly, that's another conversation. But for the common fan, why do we need to concern ourselves with it?

I am F A R more aggravated at the transfer portal than I am NIL. That DOES affect me as a fan because, kind of like "one and done" with college basketball, the transfer portal has basically turned college football into minor league baseball. The names and faces are now on such a rotation, how can you ever endear yourself to any player when they might be gone the next year? And yes, I say this knowing full well that UT has benefitted and will continue to benefit from it. I still don't like it!

Completely agree that the (nearly unrestricted) transfer portal is what is really killing the college football experience for the fans. The players are no longer really committed to the team for the full ride and the team/coaches are not really committed to them anymore. Each season, both players and coaches are looking to make moves to upgrade.

Thats expected in the pros but it is a disservice to the teams and many of the players to treat it that way when many players are often not mature enough yet to see their true value. Most simply wont make the pros and will need that degree and that alma mater network, which they may not get by skipping around.

Meanwhile, what coach is going to invest in diamonds in the rough, knowing that once they coach a player to a higher level, perhaps over 3 years or so, they are likely to leave for a higher pay level? How does that help the vast majority of players? It doesnt.

NIL only helps those players whose skills mature early. Thats fine. The problem is that the transfer portal is not helping all those guys who arent ready for NFLjr in their Jr year of high school.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Waaaaa??

I didn't think that had anything to do with the transfer rule. I thought it had to do with Tennessee defending against potential sanctions from the NCAA regarding NIL and the recruitment of Nico. I'll admit, I didnt read every little piece of documentation that was made available to the public, but I don't recall any of the media outlets even mentioning the transfer portal as being a part of this.

Tennessee also joined West Virginia, Ohio, and several other states in the West Virginia suit against the NCAA over the transfer limits. The plaintiffs got an injunction that allows free, unlimited transfers

 

[volfan102455]

Even when I show you the notice from the state that they're filing about TRANSFERS, you insist it's not about transfers.

The rule was about a player being deemed eligible (via a transfer) and then later being deemed not eligible with the university having to vacate results (i.e. wins) in any games the not eligible player may have played in.

It is all about getting to a stable set of rules that all agree to and also not retroactively penalizing the player or the university if a player was deemed eligible under one rule and now that rule has changed resulting with the player being not eligible.

The NCAA is also trying to classify NIL collectives that act like boosters as boosters. The recruiting rules related to boosters are still in play. If all of this were to play out a certain way, Nico might not be eligible at UT resulting with (1) Nico transferring to play somewhere else and (2) UT vacating any win he participated in.

I guarantee you that the coaches do not like free unlimited transfers. They probably like the idea of being able to obtain a player that was not a good fit someplace else but is a good fit for them - but with that comes the risk that you lose the players you are banking on for the next year as well. There is no way you can build a championship program like that.

Like I have said, when a former player becomes the reason why a different team beats UT, most on here that are defending "transfer at will", will be trashing that former player, trashing the coaches for not finding a way to keep said player, and trashing the system that allows it. That is not good for college sports.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

The rule was about a player being deemed eligible (via a transfer) and then later being deemed not eligible with the university having to vacate results (i.e. wins) in any games the not eligible player may have played in.

It is all about getting to a stable set of rules that all agree to and also not retroactively penalizing the player or the university if a player was deemed eligible under one rule and now that rule has changed resulting with the player being not eligible.

The NCAA is also trying to classify NIL collectives that act like boosters as boosters. The recruiting rules related to boosters are still in play. If all of this were to play out a certain way, Nico might not be eligible at UT resulting with (1) Nico transferring to play somewhere else and (2) UT vacating any win he participated in.

I guarantee you that the coaches do not like free unlimited transfers. They probably like the idea of being able to obtain a player that was not a good fit someplace else but is a good fit for them - but with that comes the risk that you lose the players you are banking on for the next year as well. There is no way you can build a championship program like that.

Like I have said, when a former player becomes the reason why a different team beats UT, most on here that are defending "transfer at will", will be trashing that former player, trashing the coaches for not finding a way to keep said player, and trashing the system that allows it. That is not good for college sports.

Choosing to be obtuse, I see?

An exact quote from the AG of TN:

"General Skrmetti and the other attorneys general are challenging the National Collegiate Athletic Association’s requirement that college athletes who transfer a second time among Division I schools wait one year before competing in games."

Yes, the NCAA rule DID state any wins would be vacated with a second transfer player playing, as it does for lots of rule violations, which is how it basically "enforced" making them sit after the first transfer.

The AG of Tennessee wants the rule removed.

He says that very plainly.

Even when I point out the school, via the TN AG, is trying to get the transfer rule abolished, you guys still insist they don't want it abolished.

They do or the AG of TN does, for sure. I highly doubt TN joined that lawsuit without consulting with at least the AD at UT and probably the Chancellor and President as well.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

The key is that the states are doing this to PROTECT themselves from sanctions. It has little to do with what they think is the best for the athletes. They may say that but the truth is they are concerned about retro-active violations resulting from a changed rule.

The NCAA is or was, we will see how they approach this going forward, is trying to put some much-needed controls over the wild wild west show. They are also trying to enforce rules around recruiting that have existed forever and remove the "loopholes" that boosters may be using in direct violation of those rules. Some of those rules do not conflict with NIL or anti-trust laws at all.

All this is just everyone involved trying to get a handle on the MESS that NIL is creating.

NIL didn't create the mess. The NCAA getting away with violations of federal antitrust law for decades did that.