Nil, Revenue Sharing and Title IX

#51
#51
unfrozencvmanvol said:
As I have said repeatedly. ONLY CONGRESS CAN FIX THIS. Granted, that is a terrible situation for college sports to be in, but these are their laws, and they are the only ones with the power to legally address all of the pertinent issues. I have also said repeatedly that saving the women's and non-revenue sports is what would drive a compromise here. There is no "free marketing" this, and have football/basketball remain associated with the University. No Congressional action means, Vols, Inc., minor league football. NFL junior, and without the connection to the university, it will be just as popular as minor league baseball. If the players, and the universities, don't come together and lobby Congress for a mutually acceptable deal, they are all going to kill the goose that laid the golden egg, and despite the fact that I have loved CFB all my life, the cynical adult attorney in me is going to laugh when that happens.
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You're far better able to see this than me but I've said since Alston that the major revenue schools needed to separate athletics from the school before they kill it for lots of normal, happy to have a scholarship, really want to play at this school athletes.

I'm unsure the courts will sort out a difference between TN Tech and UT. If lumped together for compensation, that's a disaster for a lot of students who'd like to be athletes and aren't elite talents.

I'm cynical too. I've seen money issues cause all kinds of issues in everything from big churches to drug dealers.

The elite schools need to go pro and stop ruining college sports.
 
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#52
#52
unfrozencvmanvol said:
As I have said repeatedly. ONLY CONGRESS CAN FIX THIS. Granted, that is a terrible situation for college sports to be in, but these are their laws, and they are the only ones with the power to legally address all of the pertinent issues. I have also said repeatedly that saving the women's and non-revenue sports is what would drive a compromise here. There is no "free marketing" this, and have football/basketball remain associated with the University. No Congressional action means, Vols, Inc., minor league football. NFL junior, and without the connection to the university, it will be just as popular as minor league baseball. If the players, and the universities, don't come together and lobby Congress for a mutually acceptable deal, they are all going to kill the goose that laid the golden egg, and despite the fact that I have loved CFB all my life, the cynical adult attorney in me is going to laugh when that happens.
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That is ludicrously out of touch. College football has been the NFL minor league for decades. Now your panties are in a wad because the athlete exploitation has been stopped and they get to share in the profits for doing the work and taking the physical risks.
 
#53
#53
S.C. OrangeMan said:
That is ludicrously out of touch. College football has been the NFL minor league for decades. Now your panties are in a wad because the athlete exploitation has been stopped and they get to share in the profits for doing the work and taking the physical risks.
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Only very few athletic departments make money. Those need to go pro.

There are a lot of colleges that simply don't make money on sports that fall under the NCAA umbrella. THOSE are the students for whom this is an absolute disaster.
 
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#54
#54
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
The elite schools need to go pro and stop ruining college sports.
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Or - perhaps - they can discharge their pro sports enterprises, which will in turn die an Icarian death - but also work with Congress to develop a new framework for intercollegiate competition that lets them set reasonable barriers on everything from coaching pay to participant compensation. Drop the "limitless money at all costs" pursuit, but in exchange, they can generate enough income to fund sports programs for attending students as they once did. "Operate within these boundaries that maintain standing, and you are given exemption."

People will grouse of course, about how unfair it all is, but they will be free to not sign scholarships and to not participate under that new framework. And as an added benefit, all those concerns about outspending the behemoth alumni networks in Ohio and Michigan will suddenly evaporate, leaving programs to compete again on popularity of programs, relevance of academic offerings, and sheer prominence, areas the southern schools can absolutely dominate.
 
#56
#56
S.C. OrangeMan said:
That is ludicrously out of touch. College football has been the NFL minor league for decades. Now your panties are in a wad because the athlete exploitation has been stopped and they get to share in the profits for doing the work and taking the physical risks.
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A completely unserious response. You are wrong, you have been wrong, you don't know your azz from hat on this subject, and it shows.
 
#57
#57
I'm not a lawyer, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but here's my opinion (that nobody asked for). I don't think this will be an issue for NIL collectives. They aren't "officially" affiliated with the University. They don't process funds through the university. Where it would be an issue is if the Vol Club or a university entity like that tried to send money to players. What I think this will affect is the new revenue sharing that was set to take effect. Schools were already setting up the structure where the payments would be weighted more on the income received. This would mean that football and men's bball would be set to receive a larger chunk of the pie. The way I see it, is this ruling wants there to be a standard "per athlete" amount regardless of sport.
 
#58
#58
BristolVol said:
Exactly. I think in 2021Supreme Court ruled NCAA can not be cap NIL payments.
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The Supreme Court ruling was not about NIL expressly. However, the ruling basically said that the NCAA as it was then constituted was a monopoly in violation of the federal anti-trust laws and at that point the NCAA as a rule making body was basically done for, as it no longer had the power to enforce really much of anything, including any rules relating to NIL. Now if Congress were to grant the NCAA (or some other regulating body) an anti-trust exemption (which politically would have to be conditioned on some sort of equitable revenue sharing model), all bets are off, the NCAA/or other regulating body would then have teeth again, but Congress would have to do that, the antitrust laws are Congress's laws, they are the only ones that can change them, BUT they have the power to change them largely as they see fit. The Supreme Court said that themselves in their decision (that Congress could change the law).
 
#59
#59
Voltopia said:
Or - perhaps - they can discharge their pro sports enterprises, which will in turn die an Icarian death - but also work with Congress to develop a new framework for intercollegiate competition that lets them set reasonable barriers on everything from coaching pay to participant compensation. Drop the "limitless money at all costs" pursuit, but in exchange, they can generate enough income to fund sports programs for attending students as they once did. "Operate within these boundaries that maintain standing, and you are given exemption."

People will grouse of course, about how unfair it all is, but they will be free to not sign scholarships and to not participate under that new framework. And as an added benefit, all those concerns about outspending the behemoth alumni networks in Ohio and Michigan will suddenly evaporate, leaving programs to compete again on popularity of programs, relevance of academic offerings, and sheer prominence, areas the southern schools can absolutely dominate.
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You have far far far more faith in Congress to get this right and not be influenced HEAVILY by a multi billion dollar industry and their lobby.

History says otherwise. If you think they're going to care more about "saving college football" than they do about getting a nearly unlimited skybox to flex with at the colleges of their choice..... you have never met a Washington DC politician.

As for getting money out "so you can keep your exemption," the bagmen are nodding and winking at the university ADs as that is said. They've been at this a very very long time even before widespread TV coverage really ruined college athletics. The thrill and flex of having a hand in getting the next big QB or RB to go to your chosen school is something money has, can, and will buy.
 
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#60
#60
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
You have far far far more faith in Congress to get this right and not be influenced HEAVILY by a multi billion dollar industry and their lobby.

History says otherwise. If you think they're going to care more about "saving college football" than they do about getting a nearly unlimited skybox to flex with at the colleges of their choice..... you have never met a Washington DC politician.

As for getting money out "so you can keep your exemption," the bagmen are nodding and winking at the university ADs as that is said. They've been at this a very very long time even before widespread TV coverage really ruined college athletics. The thrill and flex of having a hand in getting the next big QB or RB to go to your chosen school is something money has, can, and will buy.
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Oh I realize all of that. I'm just looking for the golden path where there the schools can operate sports programs with the intent of using the proceeds to fund athletics departments, the students who want to parcipate can do so, in a field of play that is as fair as practicable. And the rest can sod off in one form or another. The number of opportunities colleges have provided for students with athletic skills is not lost on me. It is a fantasy to want those to survive, but all of this sounds like fantasy right now.

Still, you are right, the bagmen are eternal. Wanting to one-up your rivals is one of the pillars of college athletics. The bagmen will find a way to be involved no matter how things are arranged. There will always be someone willing to kick in a payment if it helps their program or possibly helps their own status. Maybe both. It's a complicated mess, that.

I confess a certain bloodlust for seeing the "it's a pro thing already" crowd get exactly what they've asked for. A lot of I'd-still-care-about-it-just-as-much claims that I'd be fascinated to see put to the test. No more college anything. I am terribly curious about how long the "Knoxville Recruits" would last.
 
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#61
#61
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
You have far far far more faith in Congress to get this right and not be influenced HEAVILY by a multi billion dollar industry and their lobby.

History says otherwise. If you think they're going to care more about "saving college football" than they do about getting a nearly unlimited skybox to flex with at the colleges of their choice..... you have never met a Washington DC politician.

As for getting money out "so you can keep your exemption," the bagmen are nodding and winking at the university ADs as that is said. They've been at this a very very long time even before widespread TV coverage really ruined college athletics. The thrill and flex of having a hand in getting the next big QB or RB to go to your chosen school is something money has, can, and will buy.
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To be clear, I hate Congress. I have little faith in them, but again they are the only institution with the power to change this. And there will ultimately be a majority of representatives who will not allow the women's and non-revenue sports (and all of those scholarships for those kids who are not going pro in anything) go down the toilet on their watch. College sports is also an American institution, and once it is fully grasped that it's going away unless they act, they will move to save it. What they come up with will likely suck, but it can't suck any worse than the completely rudderless ship we currently have and the ultimate consequences of taking no action.
 
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#62
#62
Voltopia said:
Oh I realize all of that. I'm just looking for the golden path where there the schools can operate sports programs with the intent of using the proceeds to fund athletics departments, the students who want to parcipate can do so, in a field of play that is as fair as practicable. And the rest can sod off in one form or another. The number of opportunities colleges have provided for students with athletic skills is not lost on me. It is a fantasy to want those to survive, but all of this sounds like fantasy right now.

Still, you are right, the bagmen are eternal. Wanting to one-up your rivals is one of the pillars of college athletics. The bagmen will find a way to be involved no matter how things are arranged. There will always be someone willing to kick in a payment if it helps their program or possibly helps their own status. Maybe both. It's a complicated mess, that.

I confess a certain bloodlust for seeing the "it's a pro thing already" crowd get exactly what they've asked for. A lot of I'd-still-care-about-it-just-as-much claims that I'd be fascinated to see put to the test. No more college anything. I am terribly curious about how long the "Knoxville Recruits" would last.
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Honestly, leasing the logo and facilities and paying for the band to still do the T, providing decent priced student discount tickets and season tickets without the donation fee added in there....... I don't know how long it might last.

If you structure ticket prices decently, use the media money and stadium revenue to fund salaries and the lease, I could see it looking a lot like UT football.

Rosters would stabilize more like the Titans or Braves and season tickets might be cheaper than they are now. Would it be as big as it is now? I doubt it because some people aren't in it for the football but for the football's school connection.

I like football. I'm not a hard butt about traditions because I learned to drive a column shift car and hated the switch to a stick and then to automatic and now I don't even turn a key to start the thing, I push a button and it turns off at stoplights and restarts when I hit the gas. Stupid , but changes happen and I like to drive.

People can adjust.
 
#63
#63
S.C. OrangeMan said:
The NCAA can't force anyone to abandon private NIL.

The NCAA is trying to confuse people between NIL and revenue sharing to muddy tree waters.

Now the House settlement is in jeopardy and is in doubt.
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The NCAA is not doing that. Schools are making their own decision to drop the private entities and bring NIL in house. Tennessee is thinking about that.
 
#64
#64
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Only very few athletic departments make money. Those need to go pro.

There are a lot of colleges that simply don't make money on sports that fall under the NCAA umbrella. THOSE are the students for whom this is an absolute disaster.
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Actually, a lot of them make money, especially on football. Even a middling program like Troy makes around $33 million annually.

There's this thing called "TV revenue", yanno?
 
#65
#65
#66
#66
LWSVOL said:
The NCAA is not doing that. Schools are making their own decision to drop the private entities and bring NIL in house. Tennessee is thinking about that.
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And again, no school nor the NCAA can force that. It would be a stupid financial decision for UT or any other university. Right now, NIL doesn't cost the school a dime. Bringing it in house adds costs to the school and would make us less competitive with the schools that continue to partner with private NIL collectives.
 
#68
#68
S.C. OrangeMan said:
And again, no school nor the NCAA can force that. It would be a stupid financial decision for UT or any other university. Right now, NIL doesn't cost the school a dime. Bringing it in house adds costs to the school and would make us less competitive with the schools that continue to partner with private NIL collectives.
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I'm not saying its forced. The schools doing it are making their own decision to bring it in house.

I've no opinion on it, just speaking to what I'm seeing happen
 
#70
#70
unfrozencvmanvol said:
The Supreme Court ruling was not about NIL expressly. However, the ruling basically said that the NCAA as it was then constituted was a monopoly in violation of the federal anti-trust laws and at that point the NCAA as a rule making body was basically done for, as it no longer had the power to enforce really much of anything, including any rules relating to NIL. Now if Congress were to grant the NCAA (or some other regulating body) an anti-trust exemption (which politically would have to be conditioned on some sort of equitable revenue sharing model), all bets are off, the NCAA/or other regulating body would then have teeth again, but Congress would have to do that, the antitrust laws are Congress's laws, they are the only ones that can change them, BUT they have the power to change them largely as they see fit. The Supreme Court said that themselves in their decision (that Congress could change the law).
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And anti trust exemption won't affect NIL.
See the NIL commercials featuring pro football, baseball, basketball, and hickey athletes for the evidence.
 
#71
#71
unfrozencvmanvol said:
To be clear, I hate Congress. I have little faith in them, but again they are the only institution with the power to change this. And there will ultimately be a majority of representatives who will not allow the women's and non-revenue sports (and all of those scholarships for those kids who are not going pro in anything) go down the toilet on their watch. College sports is also an American institution, and once it is fully grasped that it's going away unless they act, they will move to save it. What they come up with will likely suck, but it can't suck any worse than the completely rudderless ship we currently have and the ultimate consequences of taking no action.
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I'd like to believe that. A LOT is likely to change as the political climate is shifting. There's a move toward the federal government keeping their grubby paws (and I mean grubby and I mean paws) off things they never should have touched (YMMV, there's a political forum where they talk about this a lot and I stay out of it.)

Just talking about the mood of the nation, lots of people are done with DC calling a lot of the shots and in the scheme of things federal control over college football can look a lot like overreach (no matter if they're the only ones who can fix it.)

As the pendulum that is America swings, I'm not sure a majority of people want Congress to fix much of anything and college sports is a little problem relative to the trillions of things, like dollars of debt, I'd like to see them go after.
 
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#74
#74
#75
#75
Whenever your sport can generate $100M for the school then you can get equal revenue sharing. Not a men’s sport vs women’s sport issue or a sexist thing. It’s simple economics and football generates the majority of the money. Until that changes then everyone just needs to go about their business.
 
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