No interest in CCM ball???

#26
#26
OrangeBalls said:
UT was filling up its gym and winning before Pearl ever arrived. To think that people are coming to the games because of only Pearl is not only stupid, but just plain ignorant.
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That's not entirely true, we averaged 15,000 fans during the green years and topped out over 20,000 + during the pearl years......dropped down to 18000 pearls last season and 16000 Zo's first year.
 
#27
#27
OrangeBalls said:
I'm not denying that the Pearl era wasn't mainly a great time for the fans and UT in general. A number of great wins and TBA was rocking a number of times. I'm just saying that UT has had a number of big games/crowds in the past before Pearl. The Wade Houston era almost destroyed the program. We had an AD who could care less about hoops. Then we finally figured out that we could win in basketball again if we commit to it. People who think this year has been a struggle forget the Houston, O'Neill and Buzz years.
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Oneill deserves more credit than he is given, he was the perfect coach to bring us out of the wade Houston induced funk.
 
#28
#28
OrangeBalls said:
How old are you? Did you ever attend a game at Stokely?

Devoe had TBA rocking along with Green. There were very few highlights during the Houston, O'Neill and Buzz eras, but that was mainly because of the incompetence at coaching and in the AD.
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Stokely a few games when I was a kid, but here is the thing it is easier to fill Stokely than Thompson. I think this is a useless argument, the reason we have Top 20 attendance is because of what Pearl did, it was big time stagnent for mostly `15 years with a few high spots.
 
#29
#29
If you are a good coach you should see some results fairly quickly in basketball (hate to say it, but Pearl easily did it)
Pearl was fortunate enough to inherit Chris Lofton, one of the purest shooters the SEC has had the past decade, as well as Jajuan Jones, who could also light it up from behind the arc. He also had a small quick roster that first season that was perfectly suited for his full court pressure defense. CCM inherited a roster that did not have a single player who can shoot a consistent outside shot, much less from behind the arc. If CCM had inherited at least one shooter anywhere near what Lofton's or Jones' consistentcy, I've no doubt the Vols would have made the NCAA last year and this year. Guys like those 2 can mask a lot of deficiencies.
 
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#31
#31
Crazy Ivan said:
If you are a good coach you should see some results fairly quickly in basketball (hate to say it, but Pearl easily did it)
Pearl was fortunate enough to inherit Chris Lofton, one of the purest shooters the SEC has had the past decade, as well as Jajuan Jones, who could also light it up from behind the arc. He also had a small quick roster that first season that was perfectly suited for his full court pressure defense. CCM inherited a roster that did not have a single player who can shoot a consistent outside shot, much less from behind the arc. If CCM had inherited at least one shooter anywhere near what Lofton's or Jones' consistentcy, I've no doubt the Vols would have made the NCAA last year and this year. Guys like those 2 can mask a lot of deficiencies.
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Smith*. It was JaJuan Smith. There were three Smiths: JaJuan, Ramar, and Tyler.
 
#33
#33
bleedingTNorange said:
“@BFQuinn: With UT finances back in the news, I should note men's hoops was on Forbes' list of the 20 “most valuable” cbb programs in 2011 and 2012”

“@BFQuinn: Forbes showed Tennessee hoops with a value of $12.7 million and a profit of $6.9 million in 2011-12.”


And attendance is up so far this year, I find that interesting judging the vibe and feelings of many on here.
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You have far more info than I - but I can't help but call bs on the attendance being up from last year. The team is worse - the games that I have been to (which is most of them) the attendance has not been very good and certainly not an energized fan base. I want numbers or it didn't happen. Also don't want politicians ficticious numbers.

Thanks,
 
#34
#34
OrangeBalls said:
How old are you? Did you ever attend a game at Stokely?

Devoe had TBA rocking along with Green. There were very few highlights during the Houston, O'Neill and Buzz eras, but that was mainly because of the incompetence at coaching and in the AD.
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^This.

I will add though that even before Devoe there was the founder Ray Mears. Without Mears there literally would be no "Big Orange Country".
 
#36
#36
Fullfillmer said:
You have far more info than I - but I can't help but call bs on the attendance being up from last year. The team is worse - the games that I have been to (which is most of them) the attendance has not been very good and certainly not an energized fan base. I want numbers or it didn't happen. Also don't want politicians ficticious numbers.

Thanks,
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I don't really know what to tell you besides, look up the numbers if you question it. Look at first 18 last year, and first 18 this year...
 
#37
#37
bleedingTNorange said:
“@BFQuinn: With UT finances back in the news, I should note men's hoops was on Forbes' list of the 20 “most valuable” cbb programs in 2011 and 2012”

“@BFQuinn: Forbes showed Tennessee hoops with a value of $12.7 million and a profit of $6.9 million in 2011-12.”


And attendance is up so far this year, I find that interesting judging the vibe and feelings of many on here.
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Bring back BP!! the excitment...the wins
 
#38
#38
Fullfillmer said:
You have far more info than I - but I can't help but call bs on the attendance being up from last year. The team is worse - the games that I have been to (which is most of them) the attendance has not been very good and certainly not an energized fan base. I want numbers or it didn't happen. Also don't want politicians ficticious numbers.

Thanks,
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Trust the sports information directors numbers?

“@TomSatkowiak: Through nine home games last season, @Vol_Hoops avg attendance was 16,028. Through nine games this season: 16,686”
 
#40
#40
hillccs said:
Buzz, just bring in Wade Houston while you are at it? I am making a very simple statement. The reason attendance is good is because of Pearl. Look forget being bored, all I care is about winning, but they are painfully bad. In addition as far as me singing Martin's praises, I said in my post I hope he turns it around. How long did it take Pearl to turn it around...that is right the first year he coached?
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One question -

What needed to be "turned-around" exactly when CCM took over? UT was a NCAA tourney team for six years straight - and under the former coach the Vols averaged 24 wins per year (not to mention his success in the NCAA Tourney).

Additionally, average attendance (natl) by years w/ ranking:

2012 16,543 7th (CCM)
2011 18,952 5th (CBP)
2010 19,168 4th
2009 20,483 4th
2008 20,267 4th
2007 19,661 4th
2006 17,954 5th
2005 12,225 20th (Buzz).

Notwithstanding the minor AA violations for which UT received a "slap on the wrist", I would assert that the basketball program did not need to be "turned around".

Turned around from what I ask? From winning - from going to the NCAA tourney?
 
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#41
#41
volbeast33 said:
That's not entirely true, we averaged 15,000 fans during the green years and topped out over 20,000 + during the pearl years......dropped down to 18000 pearls last season and 16000 Zo's first year.
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hillccs said:
Stokely a few games when I was a kid, but here is the thing it is easier to fill Stokely than Thompson. I think this is a useless argument, the reason we have Top 20 attendance is because of what Pearl did, it was big time stagnent for mostly `15 years with a few high spots.
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ddubb76 said:
They were not selling out before.
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Again, all three of you must be too young to remember a guy named Ray Mears and games at Stokely. Yes, they were selling games out long before Pearl came to town.
 
#42
#42
volbeast33 said:
Oneill deserves more credit than he is given, he was the perfect coach to bring us out of the wade Houston induced funk.
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I've never said O'Neill wasn't a definite upgrade over Houston or Buzz. However, his brand of basketball bores a lot of people. Green walked into a roster that O'Neill had built back up and got the fruits of O'Neill's labor. If he could've coached worth a damn UT would've had its first Elite 8 before Pearl arrived.
 
#43
#43
1. Pearl's final team was also his worst team. It racked up the worst home record since the Wade Houston Era (10-8), barely made the NCAA tournament, and was subsequently embarrassed in the first round.
2. The starting lineup for that team consisted of Melvin Goins, Scotty Hopson, Cameron Tatum, Tobias Harris, and Brian Williams. All of them save Tatum graduated or left at the end of the season.
3. Despite losing that core and being left an inexperienced if somewhat talented team, Martin finished the next year with the same overall record as Pearl's final team, finished higher in the SEC standings with a better SEC record, and was a win away from making the NCAA tournament. Further, in a span of 10 months he nabbed two 5 star recruits, Jarnell Stokes and Robert Hubbs.

Y'all may not remember, but everyone and their mother thought that Tennessee was going to go away and return back to mediocrity following Pearl's departure.
Regardless of what happens this year (and they can still make the tournament), Maymon's return next year assures that the Vols will be putting their most talented lineup on the floor since the 07-08 31 win season.
 
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#44
#44
whobethis16 said:
Two things:
1.) How quickly did people turn into such whiny babies after Peterson was hired? First season? 3rd? What?
2.) If you really think that Martin is going to ruin basketball for UT, you're ignorant. Peterson's first year was a losing record (Martin had a winning record) with a far more talented team than Martin inherited.

Just because YOU (and a few others) cry about being bored, you need to actual listen to the crowd when this team forced the turnovers and shot clock violations. It certainly was rocking in there Saturday. Once he gets a few players in here made to play defense and run his offense, you'll be back on here saying how much you love Martin and his play.
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Alright...someone who gets it. Preach on my man! Thanks!:pepper:
GO VOLS!
 
#45
#45
volfan199 said:
1. Pearl's final team was also his worst team. It racked up the worst home record since the Wade Houston Era (10-8), barely made the NCAA tournament, and was subsequently embarrassed in the first round.2. The starting lineup for that team consisted of Melvin Goins, Scotty Hopson, Cameron Tatum, Tobias Harris, and Brian Williams. All of them save Tatum graduated or left at the end of the season.
3. Despite losing that core and being left an inexperienced if somewhat talented team, Martin finished the next year with the same overall record as Pearl's final team, finished higher in the SEC standings with a better SEC record, and was a win away from making the NCAA tournament. Further, in a span of 10 months he nabbed two 5 star recruits, Jarnell Stokes and Robert Hubbs.

Y'all may not remember, but everyone and their mother thought that Tennessee was going to go away and return back to mediocrity following Pearl's departure.
Regardless of what happens this year (and they can still make the tournament), Maymon's return next year assures that the Vols will be putting their most talented lineup on the floor since the 07-08 31 win season.
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And if I recall correctly people were beginning to come out and question Pearl's player development abilities and coaching skills. Dare I bleaspheme the great Bruce Pearl???? :)
 
#46
#46
volfan199 said:
1. Pearl's final team was also his worst team. It racked up the worst home record since the Wade Houston Era (10-8), barely made the NCAA tournament, and was subsequently embarrassed in the first round.
2. The starting lineup for that team consisted of Melvin Goins, Scotty Hopson, Cameron Tatum, Tobias Harris, and Brian Williams. All of them save Tatum graduated or left at the end of the season.
3. Despite losing that core and being left an inexperienced if somewhat talented team, Martin finished the next year with the same overall record as Pearl's final team, finished higher in the SEC standings with a better SEC record, and was a win away from making the NCAA tournament. Further, in a span of 10 months he nabbed two 5 star recruits, Jarnell Stokes and Robert Hubbs.

Y'all may not remember, but everyone and their mother thought that Tennessee was going to go away and return back to mediocrity following Pearl's departure.
Regardless of what happens this year (and they can still make the tournament), Maymon's return next year assures that the Vols will be putting their most talented lineup on the floor since the 07-08 31 win season.
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Notwithstanding Pearl's last year at Tennessee - they did go the the NCAA tourney. And despite your comparison of the records from that season to CCM's first season, an NIT bid is no comparison to going to the NCAA tourney.

I can guarantee that any college basketball team in the country would rather go to the AA tourney and get blown out in the first round than go to the NIT. Moreover, even though Pearl's last year was his worst - every top basketball program in the country has ebbs and flows - some years they are better than others - heck even Duke got bounced in the first round in 06-07 ---- see also Carolina 09-10 ----- Ohio State 07-08 & 08-09 ---- Kansas 04-05 & 05-06.
 
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#49
#49
patrick said:
Notwithstanding Pearl's last year at Tennessee - they did go the the NCAA tourney. And despite your comparison of the records from that season to CCM's first season, an NIT bid is no comparison to going to the NCAA tourney.

I can guarantee that any college basketball team in the country would rather go to the AA tourney and get blown out in the first round than go to the NIT. Moreover, even though Pearl's last year was his worst - every top basketball program in the country has ebbs and flows - some years they are better than others - heck even Duke got bounced in the first round in 06-07 ---- see also Carolina 09-10 ----- Ohio State 07-08 & 08-09 ---- Kansas 04-05 & 05-06.
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Your points are all correct. However, you missed my second and third points. Martin's first team was far less talented and far less experienced than Pearl's last team. They missed the NCAA tournament, but they were never expected to go there in the first place. Now, if Tobias Harris and Scotty Hopson had been playing for Martin last year, I'd be right there with you. But they weren't. The drop off has been from the attrition that occurred at the end of the Pearl era, which was mostly beyond Martin's control. Martin has done a good job replenishing the talent, and they are going to have a really talented, experienced team next year. I know the results without Maymon have been disappointing this year, but they will improve (the Vol's SEC schedule has been frontloaded) and y'all are going to be excited about what's happening in this program this time next year.
 
#50
#50
And fwiw I didn't intend for this to turn into another Martin vs. Pearl thread, we've got enough of those. I was legitimately surprised by the numbers, and more by the fact that attendance is UP.
 
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