No More "Injuns"

#26
#26
Didn't seem to have any trouble spelling it out in the last paragraph. I'll give you "redskin", but Brave is a little different. Let's go to the dictionary......

Main Entry: red·skin
Pronunciation: 'red-"skin
Function: noun
usually offensive : AMERICAN INDIAN

Main Entry: brave
Function: noun
2 : one who is brave; specifically : an American Indian warrior

Main Entry: Sem·i·nole
Pronunciation: 'se-m&-"nOl
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural Seminoles or Seminole
1) a member of any of the groups of American Indians that emigrated to Florida from Georgia and Alabama in the 18th century and that are now located in southern Florida and Oklahoma

Now for your comparison.....

Main Entry: nig·ger
Pronunciation: 'ni-g&r
Function: noun
Etymology: alteration of earlier neger, from Middle French negre, from Spanish or Portuguese negro, from negro black, from Latin niger
1 usually offensive, see usage paragraph below : a black person
2 usually offensive, see usage paragraph below : a member of any dark-skinned race
3 : a member of a socially disadvantaged class of persons <it&#39;s time for somebody to lead all of America&#39;s niggers... all the people who feel left out of the political process -- Ron Dellums>
usage ****** in senses 1 and 2 can be found in the works of such writers of the past as Joseph Conrad, Mark Twain, and Charles Dickens, but it now ranks as perhaps the most offensive and inflammatory racial slur in English. Its use by and among blacks is not always intended or taken as offensive, but, except in sense 3, it is otherwise a word expressive of racial hatred and bigotry.

In my opinion, THAT word is not REMOTELY the same thing as Brave or Seminole, and only moderately close to the word "Redskin".

The problem is the CONTEXT in which you use it. If I waled up to an American Indian and said, "You Redskin you." That would be offensive. If I said "Go Redskins" in refference to pro football, 1, I would have lost my mind since I am a Cowboys fan, but two, it wouldn&#39;t and shouldn&#39;t be deemed offensive.
 
#27
#27
Main Entry: In·di·an
Pronunciation: &#39;in-dE-&n, dial -j&n or -din
Function: noun
1 a : a native or inhabitant of India or of the East Indies b : a person of Indian descent
2 a [from the belief held by Columbus that the lands he discovered were part of Asia] : AMERICAN INDIAN b : one of the native languages of American Indians


I have a hard time seeing where "Indian" should be offensive as well.
 
#28
#28
Oh, and as for "Injun".....

Injun
1812, spelling representing Amer.Eng. colloquial pronunciation of Indian (q.v.). Honest Injun as an asseveration of truthfuless first recorded 1876 (in "Tom Sawyer"), perhaps from the notion of assurance extracted from Indians of their lack of duplicity. The term honest Indian is attested from 1676

People have become too damn sensitive.
 
#29
#29
Put the dictionary away&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; You post on here to get peoples opinions and you got them&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; Now, we are too sensitive&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; Please........... :rolleyes:
 
#30
#30
So I can&#39;t reply with my opinions? I back mine up with black and white print, is that somehow against the rules? A alot of people aren&#39;t so black and white (no pun intended) and therefore their opinions don&#39;t revolve around the literal meanings of words. That&#39;s fine with me.

That&#39;s where this whole arguement comes down really. Do you take the literal or some other meaning of the words? Depending where you stand on that question, is probably where you stand on this issue.

If you are going to reply to a post like this, ESPECIALLY if you are gonna tell me that the words I chose to use are "disrespectful", and you DON&#39;T expect me to voice MY opinons, and back up why I used the words I did, then well, I feel sorry for you, because that just means you are niave too. I have a right to defend myself when called out, and I will do it EVERY time.
 
#31
#31
To me personally, in MY opinion using "Injun" is like using the "N" word. I dont read dictionaries all day but that is the way I was brought up. I respect Indians and care alot about their culture. Sorry that I dont agree with you so I guess I am niave and sensitive. :dunno:

If I "called you out" Im soooo sorry&#33;&#33;&#33; I was just stating how I feel. Back your opinion up with black, white, purple or orange........I really dont care. I am over the whole topic because I see we will never agree. :shakehead:
 
#32
#32
"Indian" isn&#39;t even correct if you want to get right down to it. My great-grandmother was a full-blooded Cherokee who married a white man. I have never felt like people were disrespecting her or me by using titles like Braves, Redskins or the lot, but I guess it&#39;s all about how they and other minorities are portrayed by the images and names.

Your all right. I by no means have an opinion that matters. I am not Native American. My father also went to the University of Illinois and Chief Illiniwek is something I grew up with.

"[T]he term REDSKINS is not and has never been one of honor or respect, but instead, it has always been and continues to be a pejorative, derogatory, denigrating, offensive, scandalous, contemptuous, disreputable, disparaging and racist designation for Native Americans."
Resolution of the National Congress of American Indians

"Redskins. Can anybody really pretend that this term does not refer to the color of skin, to a supposed ethnic feature of a people? nder any analysis, the term "redskins" is offensive to the overwhelming majority of Indians, even when applied to a football team.... Is there anything that American public discourse rejects more than a racial epithet?"
Editorial, Indian Country Today,

Using the term "political correctness" to describe the attempts of concerned Native American parents, educators and leaders to remove stereotypes from the public schools trivializes a survival issue. A history of systematic genocide has decimated over 95% of the indigenous population of the Americas. Today, the average life expectancy of Native American males is age 45, of women, 46. The teen suicide rate among Native people is 20 times higher than the national average. Stereotypes, ignorance, silent inaction and even naive innocence damage and destroy individual lives and whole cultures. Racism kills.
Oneida Nation of Wisconsin

Both the words “brave” and “redskin” are racial slurs akin to “coon” and “******.” The word “brave” literally likens American Indians to animals; in fact, the word stems from a centuries-old belief that Indian men were half-human and half-animal. “Redskin” is a word of even stronger potency; its history has its roots in a time when American Indian men, women and children were individually hunted, killed and scalped by Europeans for profit (the scalps were known as “redskins”).


It&#39;s all in the eye of the beholder.
 
#33
#33
My original comments about PC were based on the presumption by some that others will be offended by certain language (e.g. me being non-Native American fighting to remove the names whether or not Native Americans give a rip about it).

Also, I stated that if the truly offended parties (Native Americans) were opposed to the names then changing them is worth debating and finding a solution. However, too many times people "looking out for others" attempt to right imaginary wrongs.

Finally, while it doesn&#39;t apply in this situation, too many people in our country believe that they are protected against being offended. PC stuff offends me - does that mean I can lobby to get PC removed? :question:
 
#35
#35
Originally posted by IBleedOrange24/7@Aug 6, 2005 2:20 PM
:disappointed:
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I freaking agree. This whole issue is beyond idiocy. Racism will only endure as long as people keep finding offenses in things like mascots. The NCAA hasn&#39;t struck a blow against racism. It has accomplished the exact opposite of what it intends. Pathetic.
 
#36
#36
Originally posted by Atreus21@Aug 6, 2005 5:31 PM
I freaking agree.  This whole issue is beyond idiocy.  Racism will only endure as long as people keep finding offenses in things like mascots.  The NCAA hasn&#39;t struck a blow against racism.  It has accomplished the exact opposite of what it intends.  Pathetic.
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Excellent post :clap: :clap:
 
#38
#38
Originally posted by la.lovesorange@Aug 6, 2005 11:48 AM
To me personally, in MY opinion using "Injun" is like using the "N" word. I dont read dictionaries all day but that is the way I was brought up. I respect Indians and care alot about their culture. Sorry that I dont agree with you so I guess I am niave and sensitive. :dunno:

If I "called you out" Im soooo sorry&#33;&#33;&#33; I was just stating how I feel. Back your opinion up with black, white, purple or orange........I really dont care. I am over the whole topic because I see we will never agree. :shakehead:
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I think you meant, "I respect AMERICAN Indians".
 
#39
#39
Originally posted by BeltwayVol@Aug 6, 2005 9:23 PM
I think you meant, "I respect AMERICAN Indians".
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hahahaha, Dude you are really asking for it. :eek:lol: :eek:lol: :eek:lol:
 
#42
#42
I just find the whole subject ridiculous. The team names were picked for reasons that had nothing to do with putting anyone down. Its a show of respect for the history of the tenacity, will to survive and fight that the tribes possess. It&#39;s a prime example that this issue has reached it&#39;s maximum ridiculous level when it&#39;s not important how it&#39;s meant, it&#39;s only important how it&#39;s received. This kind of thought process has permeated all levels of social strucure as well. It used to be we enjoyed free speech at the risk of a left hook to the mouth. Now you weigh your words carefully before you speak because you could lose everything just because someone received something you said in a different manner that you intended. It&#39;s incredible. :twocents:
 
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