No more Kentucky...

[cobbwebb0710]

Agree. Fulk is awful. Biggest disappointment since New Coke.

You guys act like Fulky was a 5*, top 50 player! Outside of Clemson, our only other competition for him was some mid major programs. He’s performed exactly to his expectations and maybe even exceeded them. Sure, he’s had a rough season but the only reason he’s a disappointment to you is due to the ridiculous expectations YOU put on him. I can not come on this site and claim this kid is a bust when he has become exactly what realistic expectations said he would be, a nice 3* player. Now I can put a lot of our issues on Barnes and his staff for the lack of recruiting in the previous 3 seasons(pre springer and Johnson)
GBO!!

 

[njvols]

When did the older players start playing badly???

I’ll help you with that. When the one and dones became starters. I think it was BTO that mentioned it might hurt chemistry and it damn sure has. This team has sucked since then and isn’t fun at all to watch

At the core we forgot how to play shut down defense. I went into the season thinking we’d exhaust folks with our depth and aggressive D. We started the season that way and now, it seems, like football...we have no consistent identity.

 

[BruinVol]

At the core we forgot how to play shut down defense. I went into the season thinking we’d exhaust folks with our depth and aggressive D. We started the season that way and now, it seems, like football...we have no consistent identity.

We are Still a very good defense. Not the best in the country but plenty good enough to win if our offense got it figured out


Truth is the entire key imo is James. Him missing those games and he clearly doesn’t have his shot back. He’s 1/11 and 0/6 since returning from injury. If he gets back going we have a shot

 

[zjcvols]

Why no Vescovi?

He’s technically part of the 2020 class

 

[BruinVol]

Well you sure as hell can’t have your 2 best players coming off the bench either.

a couple things. When our best two players were coming off the bench we were playing at a much higher level


Secondly many posters are saying they always want the talent but it’s clear at a place like Duke right now that isn’t always going to mean wins. Since their lottery pick one and doner left they are 4-1 and have gotten back into the bubble talk. Losing that 5 star talent has helped them.

so it’s not always about talent. It’s about fit, experience and a team that is on the same page

 

[Vols8086]

a couple things. When our best two players were coming off the bench we were playing at a much higher level


Secondly many posters are saying they always want the talent but it’s clear at a place like Duke right now that isn’t always going to mean wins. Since their lottery pick one and doner left they are 4-1 and have gotten back into the bubble talk. Losing that 5 star talent has helped them.

so it’s not always about talent. It’s about fit, experience and a team that is on the same page

I don't think anybody is arguing the importance of chemistry and fit as it pertains to overall success. The most talented team rarely wins the whole thing, but it's not like teams are making the second weekend of the dance regularly with a bunch of scrubs and projects either. Almost every year you have a Cinderella, but if you want sustained success year after year, you have to have talent.

Sure Duke had a player leave midseason and they have gotten better, but that seems like it could be a fit/attitude issue. Their entire roster is also made up of top 50 recruits, so it isn't like they are hurting for top end talent anyway.

I honestly can't believe some are trying to argue that they would rather just have less talent as a means to win more games.

 

[BruinVol]

I don't think anybody is arguing the importance of chemistry and fit as it pertains to overall success. The most talented team rarely wins the whole thing, but it's not like teams are making the second weekend of the dance regularly with a bunch of scrubs and projects either. Almost every year you have a Cinderella, but if you want sustained success year after year, you have to have talent.

Sure Duke had a player leave midseason and they have gotten better, but that seems like it could be a fit/attitude issue. Their entire roster is also made up of top 50 recruits, so it isn't like they are hurting for top end talent anyway.

I honestly can't believe some are trying to argue that they would rather just have less talent as a means to win more games.

A more experienced lesser talented team has beaten the socks off those younger more talented Kentucky teams since Barnes has gotten here.

 

[Vols8086]

A more experienced lesser talented team has beaten the socks off those younger more talented Kentucky teams since Barnes has gotten here.

I'm not saying that a lesser talented team can't beat a more talented team, but if you want to compare to UK.

Since Barnes took over in the 2015-2016 season: UT is 3-2 with 1 sweet 16 in the NCAA tourney.

UK during that same time frame: 8-4 with 1 sweet 16 and 2 elite 8's.

I'd rather have the March success personally.

 

[BruinVol]

I'm not saying that a lesser talented team can't beat a more talented team, but if you want to compare to UK.

Since Barnes took over in the 2015-2016 season: UT is 3-2 with 1 sweet 16 in the NCAA tourney.

UK during that same time frame: 8-4 with 1 sweet 16 and 2 elite 8's.

I'd rather have the March success personally.

Kentucky not making a final 4 says a lot in that timeframe with all that talent. Excluding those first two years under Barnes ill gladly take our regular seasons over their years.

 

[Vols8086]

Kentucky not making a final 4 says a lot in that timeframe with all that talent. Excluding those first two years under Barnes ill gladly take our regular seasons over their years.

So UK not making a Final Four should make us feel better about our situation?

 

[BruinVol]

So UK not making a Final Four should make us feel better about our situation?

Not at all what I said

Kentucky and Duke both having significant gaps in time of making the final 4 is Exactly my point about the one and done way.


It’s clear to me that having teams led by freshmen, even if they are great talents, isnt the way to elite success in college basketball these days.

 

[BruinVol]

Let’s look at it this way who would you rather have on your team right now??

Keon/springer
Petty/ Shackleford


I know I am taking the older more inexperienced players even though they are clearly not as talented

 

[zjcvols]

Let’s look at it this way who would you rather have on your team right now??

Keon/springer
Petty/ Shackleford


I know I am taking the older more inexperienced players even though they are clearly not as talented

Or take either one and run an actual modern offense

 

[BruinVol]

Or take either one and run an actual modern offense

I’ve agreed with you on the offense needing to evolve but I’ll always take that experienced player over the younger more talented one as long as the gap isn’t overwhelming.

 

[zjcvols]

What’s more likely: that Jaden and Keon becoming the primary options is messing with team chemistry or that the coach who has had a top 25 efficiency in offense once in the last 9 years is not adjusting his offense to his team’s strengths.

 

[zjcvols]

I’ve agreed with you on the offense needing to evolve but I’ll always take that experienced player over the younger more talented one as long as the gap isn’t overwhelming.

I’ll take the better talent and hope my coach isn’t so stubborn he won’t adjust

 

[BruinVol]

What’s more likely: that Jaden and Keon becoming the primary options is messing with team chemistry or that the coach who has had a top 25 efficiency in offense once is not adjusting his offense to his team’s strengths.

C) It’s more likely that freshmen led offenses aren’t the best route to go these days

 

[BruinVol]

I’ll take the better talent and hope my coach isn’t so stubborn he won’t adjust

Do you think CoachK and Cal are bad coaches?

Or has the game evolved into a style where freshmen led teams no longer aren’t the way to go?

 

[Vols8086]

Not at all what I said

Kentucky and Duke both having significant gaps in time of making the final 4 is Exactly my point about the one and done way.


It’s clear to me that having teams led by freshmen, even if they are great talents, isnt the way to elite success in college basketball these days.

I've said in other threads that if you are going to be led by the 1 and Done player, he has to be a once a decade or longer player. Well the problem with that is that they only come around once a decade or longer.

But you can't just forgo talent either. UK has had more tourney success using the 1 and done route than we had with Grant, Admiral, and Bone.

While UK and Duke have had significant gaps of making the Final Four, well so have we, because we have never made one in our entire history. So I don't really understand using that argument at all.

The biggest issue with this group isn't the freshmen. It's the fact that this personnel doesn't fit the offense at all and our offensive philosophies aren't from this era to begin with. There are other issues as well, but the offensive philosophy is the biggest issue that is hindering this team's success and will continue to be a hinderance unless it changes or we land the second coming of Shaq.

 

[BruinVol]

I've said in other threads that if you are going to be led by the 1 and Done player, he has to be a once a decade or longer player. Well the problem with that is that they only come around once a decade or longer.

But you can't just forgo talent either. UK has had more tourney success using the 1 and done route than we had with Grant, Admiral, and Bone.

While UK and Duke have had significant gaps of making the Final Four, well so have we, because we have never made one in our entire history. So I don't really understand using that argument at all.

The biggest issue with this group isn't the freshmen. It's the fact that this personnel doesn't fit the offense at all and our offensive philosophies aren't from this era to begin with. There are other issues as well, but the offensive philosophy is the biggest issue that is hindering this team's success and will continue to be a hinderance unless it changes or we land the second coming of Shaq.

That’s a good post. I shouldn’t be suggestioning the problem is the freshmen when I am
Really saying the problem is they are now the leaders. Perhaps a better way to say it is Freshmen led teams don’t reach their ceilings is my stance

 

[zjcvols]

C) It’s more likely that freshmen led offenses aren’t the best route to go these days

Hmmmm, maybe I think 2015 Duke would like a word

Do you think CoachK and Cal are bad coaches?

Or has the game evolved into a style where freshmen led teams no longer aren’t the way to go?

I think they got screwed by COVID since 4-6 freshmen take up their rotation and didn’t bring back four starters like we did.

Why don’t we run ball screens for Springer and Johnson?

 

[zjcvols]

By the way we were led by a RS junior, a senior and a junior on offense last year and we were even worse than this year

 

[zjcvols]

Talent is talent. A good coach should figure out how to make that talent work period. If we had 4-5 freshmen regularly playing I’d say it’s a fair point especially in a COVID year like but we returned four starters and added two top 35 players and we are still not even top 50 in offensive efficiency. That can’t happen.

 

[zjcvols]

74th
73rd
36th
3rd
96th
74th

Barnes’ offensive efficiency year by year. To me, that’s a coaching issue, not a talent or player chemistry or fit issue.

 

[zjcvols]

Effective Field Goal % year by year

254th
313th
176th
18th
207th
166th

We’ve had one year where we got and hit shots consistently out of Barnes’ offense.