Not gonna defend Holly but.....

[gule]

Tyler S is available...

 

[gule]

Donnie Tyndall is too, in 8 more years.

 

[Amb3096]

I actually don't ... know if I buy this one. I'm not looking to pick apart the larger post you're making, but I'm not sure we do have a strong starting five. Not at all. I think we have a a really good player, and I think we have a physically gifted post, and a good point guard, but I'm not sure as a five I couldn't pick 6 or 7 teams with better overall starting fives this year. We might have one or two matchups where we're ahead physically or athletically, but it's not like when we had Bobbitt-Hornbuckle-Parker-Spencer-Anosike or somesuch where you just knew we were ahead in pretty much every spot, save possibly one, or when we could roll out Massengale, Simmons, Harrison, Graves, and Burdick ... I mean, those lineups, you could see the advantages across most of the board. Ehh. I'm going to have to go stare at some rosters and think about that one.

It's not even close. MSU, SC, UConn, Baylor, MD, ND, OSU, LOU, Duke, FSU among others all have better overall starting 5s than Tennessee. Maybe not at all positions, but they are better balanced.

Tennessee easily has the worst starting PG (Reynolds) and SG (Jackson) in the top 10. Probably even the top 20...or 30.

Diamond, Jaime and MR are on par with just about anyone in the country at their respective positions, but those two starting guards (and Alexa) are a handicap, especially on offense, for every game they play. There have been instances where the combination of The Big Three overcompensates for the lack of production from the guards, but you will not consistently win if you don't have guards that are winners...period.

 

[Amb3096]

This is a serious question - WHO ?

Couple years ago it Matthew @ Kentucky - NOPE
Then it was Muffet - how's ND doing lately ? She would be crucified on here if this was our team dropping so quickly.
Dawn - just got out coached by Holly AT HOME
Over the years, it has been so many others that were hot for a short period of time, but now no one mentions because their programs have faltered.

Honestly, Geno (as bad as it pains me to say it) is the only coach that anyone would be happy with and that is not an option.

The girls battled yesterday and I thought ball movement was pretty good. I just think we have to look at who we have playing past the "big 3" - only 7 players and no offense, but the other 4 playing are average players. They are playing their heart out and I appreciate their effort, but we need some more quality depth (which is coming next year).

Fire away !

Muffett and Dawn losing to Tennessee were those kind of losses that as a Tennessee fan, I would be really upset about...10 years ago. That was when the expectation for the team was FF and NCs. Both teams are still in the Top 10.

What is frustrating about this loss is that Tennessee went out and beat 3 very good teams in Stanford, SC and ND, and gave a scare to MSU. Then they come out against a team that can barely sniff wins in the SEC and lose. C'mon, they are more talented than that. It's like they can't build on anything. Beat ND, lose to Auburn. Beat SC, lost to GA. I've resigned myself to the fact that Holly is a good enough coach that she will snag a win over an elite team when she's got the team running on all engines, and because of that she will pretty much be the coach for the foreseeable future. But I think this season and last season will be more of the norm than the exception. I don't see them being NC contenders because Holly will continue to find ways to lose games that she should win, even if she occasionally wins games that she should lose.

 

[MDVolFan14]

They have the model right there in front of them and has had that model for 97 straight wins and counting. UConn..... Just copy cat what they do at this point since there appears to be a lack of whatever with this staff trying to coach these young ladies.

UConn sets the bar for intensity and effort for their players. They also "coach" their players. And they also have an "IDENTITY"..

And part of that identity should include Russell inside. What's the purpose of having 6-6 Center that you can't regularly and consistently take advantage of her size? No more allowing zones to dictate your offensive because your team is attacking the zone with ball movement, screens and cuts, in stepping into the zone and not staying outside of it.

This team does not have any of this despite have more HS AA's than UConn over the past two seasons. With UConn, you know what they run, they know what they run, they do it at a high level and they dare you to stop it.

This team with it's HS AA's is just relying on that talent to win, and it does at times but it has no identity. What are you running? What are you good at? Can you perfect it to make it unstoppable or very difficult to stop?

Establishing an identity so that these young ladies know where, when, how and what to do is the first step. You coach it and drill to instinctual and then you get young ladies that become "special". They've mastered you offense and defense to where they can do it in their sleep and now you make room for them to see the game in slow motion and now can anticipate and make above normal plays without getting off of your game plan or losing your "IDENTITY"...

Now teams have to seriously game plan for you because they now know that if they run zone defense on you, you have a mastered plan for that. They run man-to-man, you have a mastered plan for that. Then it becomes effort. Teams will know what you are doing but with maximum effort of mastered offensive and defensive scheme, you become hard to stop. Plus, your staff can now become better at making in game adjustments because you are not trying to coach the same stuff every game that your team should already know exactly what to do.

This is what UConn does. This is what 97 and counting straight wins does. Lady Vols have more talent up and down this roster than UConn does. But UConn has an identity and they out work everybody else even when they know what's coming.

 

[armchair]

I actually don't ... know if I buy this one. I'm not looking to pick apart the larger post you're making, but I'm not sure we do have a strong starting five. Not at all. I think we have a a really good player, and I think we have a physically gifted post, and a good point guard, but I'm not sure as a five I couldn't pick 6 or 7 teams with better overall starting fives this year. We might have one or two matchups where we're ahead physically or athletically, but it's not like when we had Bobbitt-Hornbuckle-Parker-Spencer-Anosike or somesuch where you just knew we were ahead in pretty much every spot, save possibly one, or when we could roll out Massengale, Simmons, Harrison, Graves, and Burdick ... I mean, those lineups, you could see the advantages across most of the board. Ehh. I'm going to have to go stare at some rosters and think about that one.

Russell was the no. 1 recruit in the country and is one of the best centers in the country. Is she great? No, not at all, but she is somewhere betweeen good and very good, and is putting up good numbers. I don't much like her defense--she does not clog the paint as a player with her size should, because she tends to chase her mark all over the court, which is stupid, and her awareness of where the ball is is not particularly good. That said, everybody in the country would love to have her.

Nared and DD are two of the most athletic and talented wings in the country. Both can dribble and take the ball to the basket, both can shoot, both can rebound and play good defense. DD was national freshman of the year. They are players. Problem is, they are inconsistent and each tries at different times to do too much. DD is prone to commit turnovers. Are there teams for which these two would not be starters?

At guard, Reynolds is big and athletic. We should be getting more from her--she underachieves. Coaching? Yea, probably. Jackson has excellent size and athleticism--a very nice defensive complement to our offensive talent, and she doesn't mind taking big shots. And for all the talk, we have a couple of quality subs as well.

Does UConn have a starting 5 that is 30 points better than our five? Nope. But they have a coach who is 30 points better--that is beyond dispute. How many of the teams that have beaten us this year have a more highly recruited or talented starting five? One, maybe--IF THAT? But basketball isn't a game where you just roll your talent out on the floor and expect to win. No game is. You have to have the coaching. Who said they had to be as talented as Parker and Anosike and company? That's not the point. The point is, are they talented enough and good enough to beat any given opponent. That answer to that should be yes, but it takes more than talent.

 

[gule]

post of the decade?

 

[LVJeff]

It's not even close. MSU, SC, UConn, Baylor, MD, ND, OSU, LOU, Duke, FSU among others all have better overall starting 5s than Tennessee. Maybe not at all positions, but they are better balanced.

Tennessee easily has the worst starting PG (Reynolds) and SG (Jackson) in the top 10. Probably even the top 20...or 30.

Diamond, Jaime and MR are on par with just about anyone in the country at their respective positions, but those two starting guards (and Alexa) are a handicap, especially on offense, for every game they play. There have been instances where the combination of The Big Three overcompensates for the lack of production from the guards, but you will not consistently win if you don't have guards that are winners...period.

Agreed. I have been consistent in saying that the most important player on a women's college basketball team is the point guard and the most important players (plural) are the guards.

All the focus on Diamond's turnovers or Russell's skillet hands completely misses the boat. This team will go as far as Reynolds and Jackson take them. Diamond, Russell, and Nared cannot play 3 on 5 forever.

 

[Orange Maniac]

Agreed. I have been consistent in saying that the most important player on a women's college basketball team is the point guard and the most important players (plural) are the guards.

All the focus on Diamond's turnovers or Russell's skillet hands completely misses the boat. This team will go as far as Reynolds and Jackson take them. Diamond, Russell, and Nared cannot play 3 on 5 forever.

Even worse yesterday. It was 2 on 5.

 

[LVJeff]

Even worse yesterday. It was 2 on 5.

True. But that illustrates the point even more. Sooner or later one of the big three was bound to get in foul trouble, have a bad game, go out with a minor injury, whatever. And Reynolds and Jackson didn't do much to compensate.

 

[LA Vol]

Any ideas on how to improve and develop talent to achieve at a higher level better include Holly, because there is zero chance she's quitting or getting fired any time soon. Holly is cheap, undemanding, runs a clean program and she's happy to be here-- and that's good enough for UTAD.

 

[Orange_Mamba]

Some the posters on here have gone above and beyond with your "criticism". Calling a player handicapped and saying they're a waste of a scholarship is taking it too far. Like y'all weren't happy when we landed these players. It's turning to the same thing every year if a player doesn't perform to "your" expectations that you put on them then you start hollering about how worthless she is. Happened with Cierra, Amass, Simmons, Draya, Bash, and so on and I'm confident it's going to happen with the recruits we have coming into the program also. The girls put their blood, sweat, and tears into this program only for some you to come on a message board to disrespect them. You have no idea what these players are going through or dealing with. These are still kids.

 

[Martic]

There are some other good coaches out there that can do both -- recruit and game coach -- replace her with one, as soon as the new AD is hired

who????

 

[mike099]

who????

I would take NC State's coach in a heart beat. But: All this talk is a waste of time since we know that she will not be dealt with until 2 more years after this one, if at all.

 

[volnationnj]

It's not even close. MSU, SC, UConn, Baylor, MD, ND, OSU, LOU, Duke, FSU among others all have better overall starting 5s than Tennessee. Maybe not at all positions, but they are better balanced.

Tennessee easily has the worst starting PG (Reynolds) and SG (Jackson) in the top 10. Probably even the top 20...or 30.

Diamond, Jaime and MR are on par with just about anyone in the country at their respective positions, but those two starting guards (and Alexa) are a handicap, especially on offense, for every game they play. There have been instances where the combination of The Big Three overcompensates for the lack of production from the guards, but you will not consistently win if you don't have guards that are winners...period.

All ratings via Hoopgurlz

UT
Middleton #28 in 2014. (5 spots above Nurse)
Reynolds #47 in 2013

uconn
Nurse #33. In 2014
Chong #80 in 2013

I'm cognizant of the fact that ratings are not an exact science. But an independent, experienced evaluator gave the edge to us in both years.
So, were we we just unlucky in signing these players (and uconn lucky) or are there other reasons ?

 

[Spook1]

:machgun: You are right on target with everything that you say in your quote here...Amen Amen! Amen! CHW has done absolutely nothing that is visible to me to control turnovers...24 against Georgian with DeShields having 10 alone. This has been going on for 2 years and will continue until we get another coach. We play a "standing offense"...three standing doing nothing and 2 moving on the perimeter. We had no defense against Georgia...coaching again.

she's not responsible for global warming or low interest rates on CDs. Players standing around on offense is her fault. Players not knowing where to rotate on defense is her fault. Spending so long in the timeout with Dean discussing strategy that the timeout is over before she can talk to the players is her fault. Strategy is her fault. Not benching players that she later says are basically lazy a$$e$ is her fault.But come on. Some of the plays in this game looked like 3rd grade gym class. Passes attempted to Russell that were physically and scientifically impossible. A pass to a wide open Russell from 12 feet away that missed by 6 feet. Dribbling balls off knees and feet. Chasing balls that were clearly touched by Georgia and knocking them out of bounds instead of letting it go out. Trying to corral loose balls with 1 hand and dribble instead of using 2 hands and getting the ball under control. Trying to make 1 handed passes off the bounce and missing the target by 1 area code. Hitting the bottom of the rim with a shot. Shooting airballs from 3 feet. Bouncing layups so hard off the glass they ricochet to the free throw line. Trying to impersonate Curly Neal in a crowd when you really dribble like Barbara Bush.I could go on but my fingers are cramping. There is plenty of blame to go around and Holly has to take her fair share-but jeez-this team looks at times like Forrest Gump has been cloned and is playing all 5 positions.

 

[NoBackBoard]

If Holly made a rule saying anyone who made 5 TO's or missed 2 layups was on the bench for the rest of the game, you'd all have her head for sitting DD and MR in favor of Dunbar and Nunn.

I wouldn't. I believe in the old saying that sometimes you must lose the battle to win the war. Our team is so inconsistent because we lack DISCIPLINE.

I've been watching old Lady Vol games from the 80s and 90s on YouTube and it's startling how much we lack discipline, defensive intensity and fundamentals (boxing out) compared to Championship Teams.

Our overall attitude and level of play has seriously declined over the years.

 

[Amb3096]

All ratings via Hoopgurlz

UT
Middleton #28 in 2014. (5 spots above Nurse)
Reynolds #47 in 2013

uconn
Nurse #33. In 2014
Chong #80 in 2013

I'm cognizant of the fact that ratings are not an exact science. But an independent, experienced evaluator gave the edge to us in both years.
So, were we we just unlucky in signing these players (and uconn lucky) or are there other reasons ?

Saniya Chong was also the Parade POY ahead of Diamond. Nurse was an international player who was not scouted much by Hoopgurlz until she committed to UConn IIRC.

Having said that, Reynolds and Middleton are upperclassmen who have not improved (Jordan) or not delivered (Alexa) at the collegiate level. Maybe as 17 year olds, they were seen as stronger prospects, but in real time both of them (and Jackson) are not even middle of the road guards.

The sophomore from Auburn and Hicks from VT are other examples of lowly rated Hoopgurlz guards that played Tennessee H2H this year that are leagues better than Tennessee's guards. I don't think there's any argument that both of them are vastly superior players in spite of how Hoopgurlz ranked them.

 

[Amb3096]

:machgun: You are right on target with everything that you say in your quote here...Amen Amen! Amen! CHW has done absolutely nothing that is visible to me to control turnovers...24 against Georgian with DeShields having 10 alone. This has been going on for 2 years and will continue until we get another coach. We play a "standing offense"...three standing doing nothing and 2 moving on the perimeter. We had no defense against Georgia...coaching again.

Margo had a very reasonable question in her review of yesterday's game: why bring Alexa in if you don't run plays to get her open 3's? This isn't just on Holly, because Pat never did that with Angie Bjorklund either. But it was maddening to see Alexa darting all over the court and Jordan wasn't even paying attention to where she was and if she was free, unless she couldn't get the ball to MR in the post first.

 

[volnationnj]

Saniya Chong was also the Parade POY ahead of Diamond. Nurse was an international player who was not scouted much by Hoopgurlz until she committed to UConn IIRC.

Having said that, Reynolds and Middleton are upperclassmen who have not improved (Jordan) or not delivered (Alexa) at the collegiate level. Maybe as 17 year olds, they were seen as stronger prospects, but in real time both of them (and Jackson) are not even middle of the road guards.

The sophomore from Auburn and Hicks from VT are other examples of lowly rated Hoopgurlz guards that played Tennessee H2H this year that are leagues better than Tennessee's guards. I don't think there's any argument that both of them are vastly superior players in spite of how Hoopgurlz ranked them.

Let's try this approach. If uconn and Auburn have lower rated guards than Tennessee but both sets are playing better than Reynolds and Middleton, do you think it's just a random result or are there other factors involved ?
Do you see where this is headed ?

 

[Amb3096]

Let's try this approach. If uconn and Auburn have lower rated guards than Tennessee but both sets are playing better than Reynolds and Middleton, do you think it's just a random result or are there other factors involved ?
Do you see where this is headed ?

Pointing to coaching, which I agree is a large part. At the same time, outside the very top players, there seems to be a lot of variability based on which players played for the right AAU team.

 

[volnationnj]

Pointing to coaching, which I agree is a large part. At the same time, outside the very top players, there seems to be a lot of variability based on which players played for the right AAU team.

I agree about variability of ranking of players outside the very top. It's easier ranking the top 10 than #'s 101-110.
Which of these players have played better than or equal to their ranking coming out of high school for their careers at Tennessee ?
Russell. #1
DeShields #3
Nared. #6
Middleton #28
Reynolds. #42

If your answer is 0 or 1, than the question that follows is, why is that. ? I think I know what the most popular response would be.

 

[Amb3096]

I agree about variability of ranking of players outside the very top. It's easier ranking the top 10 than #'s 101-110.
Which of these players have played better than or equal to their ranking coming out of high school for their careers at Tennessee ?
Russell. #1
DeShields #3
Nared. #6
Middleton #28
Reynolds. #42

If your answer is 0 or 1, than the question that follows is, why is that. ? I think I know what the most popular response would be.

Nared, Russell and DeShields have lived up to expectations IMO. Maybe Middleton as a role player.

One problem is lack of rapid player development. Nared, Russell and Middleton should have been putting up these numbers last year. Jordan never developed. The bigger problem is that even though The Big Three have great individual stats, their cohesiveness as a team makes the sum lesser than the parts...which is coaching, as I'm sure you're trying to get me to say.

 

[ladyvosl23]

As a player you should not have to wait until you get instructions to get better, You should have a want to and If you don't there is nothing I can show you that will work . alot of these players do not have a want too

 

[Amb3096]

As a player you should not have to wait until you get instructions to get better, You should have a want to and If you don't there is nothing I can show you that will work . alot of these players do not have a want too

And you know this how? For two seasons, I've seen a lot of frustration from the players over what appears to be a lack of on court guidance.