NTSB recommends ban on use of cell phones or texting while driving

#2
#2
Funny you should mention this the same day a report comes out stating stats about accidents and cell phone use is completely overblown.

However, I'm not surprised. You liberal elites love to try and tell everyone what to do and how to live.
 
#4
#4
Funny you should mention this the same day a report comes out stating stats about accidents and cell phone use is completely overblown.

However, I'm not surprised. You liberal elites love to try and tell everyone what to do and how to live.

So where do you draw the line? Are you advocating that people should be able to go and sit wherever they want whenever they want and nothing should be done about it?

How about you just go and sit in the middle of a public street. Remember, it's JUST a street.

:whistling:
 
#7
#7
An absurd comparison in an attempt to make a point. Shocking.

Do you think the government has the right to tell persons how to live their life?

Do you think the government has the right to use their instruments (law enforcement) to physically remove individuals from a street? sidewalk?

Try being consistent.
 
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#9
#9
Hey LG, got any convincing data that shows a cell phone ban would reduce the number of accidents/deaths? I'd like to see it. People just assume policy like this works. Seat belt laws are expensive to enforce, and we're not even sure they do any good. Economists don't tend to believe seat belt laws save lives. And even if they do save lives, what is the cost per saved life? Do you even think about these things, LG, or do you just hear "cell phone ban" and assume it's a good idea?

Risk compensation theory:

The most common basis for disputing estimates of the benefits of seat belts is risk compensation and risk homeostasis advanced by researchers John Adams and Gerald Wilde. The idea of this theory is that, if the risk of death or injury from a car crash is reduced by the wearing of seat belts, drivers will respond by reducing the precautions they take against crashes.

Along with many others Adams accepts the hypothesis that wearing seatbelts improves a vehicle occupant’s chances of surviving a crash.

In order to explain the disparity between the agreed improvement in crash survival and the observed results, Adams and Wilde argue that protecting someone from the consequences of risky behaviour may tend to encourage greater risk taking. Wilde states "... to compel a person to use protection from the consequences of hazardous driving, as seat belt laws do, is to encourage hazardous driving. A fine for non-compliance will encourage seat belt use, but the fact that the law fails to increase people's desire to be safe encourages compensatory behaviour."
 
#10
#10
Try being rational. It is, in fact, allowed.

Do you think the government has the right to tell persons how to live their life?

Do you think the government has the right to use their instruments (law enforcement) to physically remove individuals from a street? sidewalk?

Try being consistent.
 
#11
#11
Purely as a cyclist, I'm all for a ban on cellphone usage while behind the wheel. I've had so many close calls because of people not paying attention.
 
#12
#12
Hey LG, got any convincing data that shows a cell phone ban would reduce the number of accidents/deaths? I'd like to see it. People just assume policy like this works. Seat belt laws are expensive to enforce, and we're not even sure they do any good. Economists don't tend to believe seat belt laws save lives. And even if they do save lives, what is the cost per saved life? Do you even think about these things, LG, or do you just hear "cell phone ban" and assume it's a good idea?

Risk compensation theory:


1) I am familiar with theories concerning passive restraints, such as seat belts and airbags, cost versus benefits, etc. I am not sure how well they apply here because ....

2) I don't see any consistent expense to the consumer/citizen/driver associated with such a ban. So you can't text someone until you've stopped. Or chat with them on the phone. Inconvenient, yes. An expense? No. (I am sure you can imagine a scenario whereby someone is driving and misses an opportunity to call in a stock order, but that is not a repeatable and measurable expense that we can include here).

3) I am not sure what the studies say about this problem. But from my own common every day experience, I have no hesitation in saying that I see more than a few close calls every week caused by drivers seemingly distracted by a cell phone.

The most common to me is not so much texting as it is that they have a hand holding a cell phone up to their ear, which prevents them from making that slight check over a shoulder.

The second most frequent scenario I believe I am seeing involves a person driving along in let's say the center lane, on the phone, when they appear to suddenly realize they've reached their destination, causing them to abruptly brake and try to change lanes. Appears as though they lost track of where they were going, or where they are.

Now, I've seen some proposals that suggest that hands free phone use can reduce accidents traceable to cell phone usage. Ok, but what about those that can't afford that option in a new or used car? And even if they have it I know several that won't use it because the quality is meh.

As to the statistics, I would argue that any study on the subject almost surely underestimates the frequency with which it is a factor in a crash because a lot of those studies will involve self-reporting, and people are not going to acknowledge (in a police report or in a phone survey) that they caused an accident because they were on the phone.

You can count up the number of times alcohol was involved because there is an objective observer, i.e. the officer who comes to the scene of a crash and determines that one of the drivers is impaired and it was that driver who caused the accident. But by the time the same officer gets to one involving a cell phone, it would often be the case that no one would know unless the at fault driver admitted it, which is going to be underreported.

On this particular issue, I am going to largely trust what I see going on out there. And I'd say more than half the drivers I look at during any given period of time will have a phone up to their heads while driving. And it isn't safe. Sorry. It just isn't.
 
#13
#13
Yea seatbelts and aribags are bad b/c they infringe on my rights to die quickly. Anyone who has been in a major accident knows how great seatbelts and airbags are. If anyone thinks you should be able to drive and talk/text at the same time, you should commute with me on I285 or GA400 on a Monday morning. Your view will quickly change
 
#14
#14
1) I am familiar with theories concerning passive restraints, such as seat belts and airbags, cost versus benefits, etc. I am not sure how well they apply here because ....

2) I don't see any consistent expense to the consumer/citizen/driver associated with such a ban. So you can't text someone until you've stopped. Or chat with them on the phone. Inconvenient, yes. An expense? No. (I am sure you can imagine a scenario whereby someone is driving and misses an opportunity to call in a stock order, but that is not a repeatable and measurable expense that we can include here).

I'll stop you right there. If you didn't think enough on it to consider the cost of enforcement, then you didn't think about it enough.
 
#15
#15
Yea seatbelts and aribags are bad b/c they infringe on my rights to die quickly. Anyone who has been in a major accident knows how great seatbelts and airbags are. If anyone thinks you should be able to drive and talk/text at the same time, should commute with me on I285 or GA400 on a Monday morning. Your view will quickly change

If seat belts are so great, how come they don't have them on school buses?
 
#16
#16
I'll stop you right there. If you didn't think enough on it to consider the cost of enforcement, then you didn't think about it enough.


You will note that I said no expense to the consumer or driver precisely because I do consider the expense of enforcement as a factor in the decision on what to do with the issue. And in terms of the particulars of a law banning such use, I'd say its a variable worth considering.

From a pure policy perspective, however, my own personal observations are that the severity of the issue and the role of such things in accidents and near misses is probably going to turn out to be well worth it.
 
#17
#17
You liberal elites love to try and tell everyone what to do and how to live.

The following biographies are mixed, some are liberals, some are conservatives. Can you guess which is which?

(A): PhD in Aerospace Engineering; served as Chief Engineer for Boeing; licensed pilot.

(B): PhD; recipient of the NASA Exceptional Service Medal; Fellow of the World Economic Forum; Founder, President, and Chief Scientist of a private corporation; Married w/ two children.

(C): Manager of Aviation at a Fortune 500 company; licensed pilot; member of the Air Line Pilot's Association's Accident Investigation Board; consultant to NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System; instructor at University of Southern Cal.

(D): JD; Deputy Director for Air Traffic Safety Oversight at the FAA; licensed pilot.

(E): Licensed commercial driver; licensed motorcycle rider; Hazardous Waster and Emergency Response certified; Senior Professional Staff Member for Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation; Married with three children.
 
#19
#19
Have you ever been in a serious car accident?

I do not know what you qualify as serious. I have been in two accidents where the car was totaled. One of which I was wearing a seat belt; the other I was not.

There is an inconsistency with the mandatory seat belt laws and, yet, permitting motorcycles on roads.

I fully understand making it mandatory to ensure that children are buckled in; however, adults can make their own decisions and live (or die) with the consequences.
 
#20
#20
seat belts on motorcycles dont work because during most motorcycle accidents you have to get away from the motorcycle. Being attached to it will cause more harm.

Adults rights to wear a seatbelt (or not) is a nice way to discuss freedoms, but when a commute of a few 100K people is disrupted, and vast amounts of our $$ is being spent scrapping your body off the interstate, then we have an issue
 
#21
#21
seat belts on motorcycles dont work because during most motorcycle accidents you have to get away from the motorcycle. Being attached to it will cause more harm.

Adults rights to wear a seatbelt (or not) is a nice way to discuss freedoms, but when a commute of a few 100K people is disrupted, and vast amounts of our $$ is being spent scrapping your body off the interstate, then we have an issue

Seat belts deter traffic jamming accidents? That is one I have not heard before.
 
#22
#22
Have you ever been in a serious car accident?

and yes certian states do require belts in school buses.

the question isn't whether or not seat belts will save your life in an accident. Data convincingly shows your survival rate increases. The problem is there is data that supports seat belt laws result in more accidents, thus we aren't any safer, and maybe less safe.
 
#23
#23
Seat belts deter traffic jamming accidents? That is one I have not heard before.

Yea, you know accidents that require multiple fire trucks, ambulances, and police? Happens from time to time here in the big cities. Maybe if that person was wearing a seatbelt, they would only need 1 police officer to write up the ticket/report instead of multiple departments shutting down multiple lanes so they can scrape you off the road
 
#24
#24
I just really think that we all know what a problem this is. And the only people who would oppose such a law are those who want to use it as a proxy for so-called government overreaching, or those that think they are so good at using their phones, and that it is the other idiots who can't manage to multitask, that don't want to give up the convenience.

Come on, be honest, its a huge problem.
 
#25
#25
the question isn't whether or not seat belts will save your life in an accident. Data convincingly shows your survival rate increases. The problem is there is data that supports seat belt laws result in more accidents, thus we aren't any safer, and maybe less safe.

I would rather be in 500 car accidents with a seatbelt on than 1 without
 

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