Number-crunching pollster sees decisive Obama win

#102
#102
KB5252 said:
Or d) The info was bad and he knew nothing about it. It kind of ties in with option b) but it implies that he is at fault for using the bad info. My point is intelligence is used by those making decisions at any level and any leader has to trust in the competence of the intelligence he is given unless he or she has good reason to doubt it. If he did then I would agree he is at fault.

I think if it was known to be questionable in some sense then it was kept from him on some level.
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I think that the US intelligence apparatus consists of some very hard working individuals who are always trying to do their best despite a lot of obstacles that are put in their way. Despite their hard work and great skill at doing their job, they're going to get it wrong sometimes...and that is not something that you crucify them over. I've just never felt comfortable with the fact that multiple intelligence sources were telling the president that the aluminum tubes we had in possession could not be used to enrich uranium and only (to my knowledge) the CIA was suggesting the could be....the administration chose to go with the intelligence that said Iraq was continuing to pursue a nuclear weapons program. The motivations behind that choice are what I question.
 
#106
#106
TennTradition said:
Yeah....you're definitely right....but I think that MG's point was that regardless of where it came from - they had it. My point is that it was old stuff...
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But if they were peddling it on the open market wouldn't it fall into the hands of those who wish us harm? What other explanation could be given other than Iraq or Iraqi's were selling "yellow cake" on the black market to those that would use it to attack us?
 
#107
#107
MontereyVol said:
My bad, yeah it was their old stuff they were trying to dump on idiots.
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My guess is that it was nicely subsidized by the US just to get it out of the middle east. It is concentrated uranium ore - so it has some value...the value of performing the dissolution and extraction to concentrate the ore from dirt. But, that is the extent of its value...in chemical terms...political terms are a whole other issue.
 
#109
#109
emainvol said:
We were justified in invading Afghanistan.

I don't care much for any democrat that allowed themselves to be misled. Hell, I was very skeptical from the beginning and I have no power.
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If you believe we were justified in invading Afghanistan, I think your argument is inconsistent. We have been in Afghanistan longer than we have been in Iraq and we still haven’t found OBL. Following your logic with regard to the WMD, that must mean that, since we haven’t found him, OBL was not in Afghanistan and either the intelligence was wrong or we were misled. I don’t understand why you blindly believe the intelligence or administration that “misled” us about WMDs in Iraq, was correct when giving the location of OBL.
 
#110
#110
KB5252 said:
But if they were peddling it on the open market wouldn't it fall into the hands of those who wish us harm? What other explanation could be given other than Iraq or Iraqi's were selling "yellow cake" on the black market to those that would use it to attack us?
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It's useful in the sense that you've removed the dirt from the uranium...but that's about it. It's still good to get out of the region, though....because it is uranium, after all. I'm a bit confused by what you're saying, though. Are you saying that the Iraqis were holding onto their pre-Gulf War yellowcake in hopes of selling it on the black market...and that is the problem?
 
#115
#115
TennTradition said:
It's useful in the sense that you've removed the dirt from the uranium...but that's about it. It's still good to get out of the region, though....because it is uranium, after all. I'm a bit confused by what you're saying, though. Are you saying that the Iraqis were holding onto their pre-Gulf War yellowcake in hopes of selling it on the black market...and that is the problem?
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The vast majority of black market material comes from the old soviet Georgian area.......

I hear a nuclear briefcase only goes for 15 million these days...
 
#117
#117
TennTradition said:
It's useful in the sense that you've removed the dirt from the uranium...but that's about it. It's still good to get out of the region, though....because it is uranium, after all. I'm a bit confused by what you're saying, though. Are you saying that the Iraqis were holding onto their pre-Gulf War yellowcake in hopes of selling it on the black market...and that is the problem?
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I may have it wrong so correct me if I need it.

The way I understood it was that we had an agent that was either offered or bought "yellow cake" in Africa that was supposed to have been sourced from Iraq.
 
#118
#118
jcwvolfan said:
If you believe we were justified in invading Afghanistan, I think your argument is inconsistent. We have been in Afghanistan longer than we have been in Iraq and we still haven’t found OBL. Following your logic with regard to the WMD, that must mean that, since we haven’t found him, OBL was not in Afghanistan and either the intelligence was wrong or we were misled. I don’t understand why you blindly believe the intelligence or administration that “misled” us about WMDs in Iraq, was correct when giving the location of OBL.
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I don't understand how that makes my argument inconsistent. Al-Qaeda was operating out of Afghanistan with the help of the Taliban. Al-Qaeda attacked us, therefore we were justified in going in to attempt to defeat them.
 
#119
#119
KB5252 said:
I may have it wrong so correct me if I need it.

The way I understood it was that we had an agent that was either offered or bought "yellow cake" in Africa that was supposed to have been sourced from Iraq.
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You, sir are correct :good!:
 
#123
#123
My biggest issue with Bush's statement about the yellowcake is that he said that it was being used to create nuclear weapons. At least if memory serves correct.
 
#124
#124
KB5252 said:
I may have it wrong so correct me if I need it.

The way I understood it was that we had an agent that was either offered or bought "yellow cake" in Africa that was supposed to have been sourced from Iraq.
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Got you...I misunderstood what you were saying...trying to read too many posts. That is an obvious concern.....but not indicative of an on-going nuclear program.

On a related note....A SERIOUS nuclear ring ran out of Pakistan for years, but we didn't invade them....
 
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