Numbers Dont Lie

#26
#26
Good points here. I think the main factor where we recruit is where our coaches have the strongest ties.

Also geography really helps us with recruiting sc, nc, ga, al, ms. Many areas of those states are easily within a half day's drive for the recruit's family and friends.
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#27
#27
JayGunna said:
of course its not an easy pull but its well worth the effort.
I was just using those guys as examples, every yr, plenty of Florida kids leave the state.

top 2010 players who left the state, there are more but this off top of my head:
McCartney, E. Grant, Lemonier, N. Robey, D. Dorsey, Clvin Smith, K. Boone, Gio Bernard, Michael Lee Harris, James Louis, Delvin Jones, Nix, ...

It happens,

theres no reason we shouldnt be one of the main schools to reap the benefits of these top tier kids who actually dont mind getting away from home
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Like I said, some fall through the cracks. It isn't easy to find out which ones will, though, and there are many schools that are chomping just to land them. Which school out of state landed the most players out of Florida this year, but only players that have committable offers from at least one of the "big 3"? Basically, if we are lucky, we may land 2 kids that one of the premier homestate schools didn't offer. I have no problem with taking kids that don't have offers from every school in the country, but usually there is a reason that they didn't get offers from schools that have seen them the most.
 
#28
#28
BTW, according to Rivals, there were 50 4* or higher players in Florida this year. Michigan landed 3. LSU landed 2. No other school landed more than 1. Michigan landed Demar Dorsey, Marvin Robinson, and Richard Ash. LSU landed Kadron Boone and Jakhari Gore. Obviously, there are plenty of other kids in the state worth offering. But it isn't like we can't land these guys from other states, either.
 
#29
#29
futureVOL9 said:
Women lie men lie women lie men lie women lie men lie numbers don't lie.
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Numbers can be fudged though. I'm not implying these numbers are fudged. But numbers can be fudged. Kinda like how Scout and Rivals, in my personal opinion, do their version of cooking the books when it comes to the star system.
 
#30
#30
Knoxville is in a pretty good spot in correlation to Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, & Ohio. All are pretty solid states for HS football lately; get 2 or 3 solid players from each. We usually get a couple of recruits from the midwest & west coast too. Throw in the occasional standout Florida athalete and Tennessee is Top 10 each year in talent.
 
#31
#31
Edit: I think I saw someone say that at least this year ga either produced more high ranked prospects than fl. Maybe four/five stars.... Agh, I can't remember. Point is that ga has similar talent and is a lot closer.

hvwarrior58 said:
Like I said, some fall through the cracks. It isn't easy to find out which ones will, though, and there are many schools that are chomping just to land them. Which school out of state landed the most players out of Florida this year, but only players that have committable offers from at least one of the "big 3"? Basically, if we are lucky, we may land 2 kids that one of the premier homestate schools didn't offer. I have no problem with taking kids that don't have offers from every school in the country, but usually there is a reason that they didn't get offers from schools that have seen them the most.
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#32
#32
Before 911, it seemed that players would travel farther, but now it seems that any university has twice the chance of successfully recruiting a player from inside about 5 or 6 hours as they do from farther away.

The next biggest issue, is: Is/are the home schools going through an up-cycle or down-cycle?

Right now, UF is up, FSU is up, and so are other Fla schools. UGA is on a down cycle. Memphis is too far away (7 hours?). Atlanta is about 3 hours away.

It is a potentially brief time of opportunity in Georgia. No matter how we feel about coach Kiff, he set the stage. Dooley has major connections there. It is a no brainer at this point in history. Focus in GA big-time right now. That should definitely be our foundation.

Having said that, we will likely not ever stop recruiting nationally.
 
#33
#33
Here's the simplest way for me to break it down, using 2009 staff as an example:

Coach Eddie Gran was heavy in Florida, he was all over the state, and making alot of head way, Him being in Florida did not hinder coach Thompson and his recruitment of Georgia.

Why would we sacrifice our entire time focusing on FL when we might get a handful of players from there. They're not going to leave bro when GA kids are. Like sjt18 pointed out, prob the best recruiting staff in the nation could only get TWO players from FL TWO!
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we didnt sacrifice anything in Georgia.
and us only landing 2 florida kids just isnt accurate, before gran and the Kiffins left, the following Florida kids were Vols: Delvin Jones, N. Robey, Calvin Smith, ralph Williams, Michael Palardy, ted meline, Kenbrell thompkins, and John Brown.


plus we were leading with Corey Lemonier and we were very much in it for Christian Jones.
 
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#34
#34
Guy. There comes a point when even a proud person should stop embarrassing themselves and say, "OK, you are probably right".

Gran is a good recruiter but he wasn't getting all of those kids who never committed to UT. Brown and Thompkins were JUCO guys. Williams quite apparently wasn't going to end up at UT regardless... and he wouldn't have been signed by one of the big 3 anyway.

Because Gran IS a good recruiter, he could have made hay in ATL just as easily as Orlando.

By about mid-season, CLK came to the same conclusion I'm trying to convince you of. He said they wanted to own GA and then go after top players nationwide. Dooley said basically the same thing... that UT's success is dependent on winning recruiting wars in GA.

IF the Vols want to do that then they have to be willing to commit whatever time and resources it takes to beat UGA for their home state kids. IOW's, ANY resource used elsewhere hurts the effort that can win the war for us.

UT has to become to Georgia what OU is to Texas.
 
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#35
#35
JayGunna said:
Here's the simplest way for me to break it down, using 2009 staff as an example:

Coach Eddie Gran was heavy in Florida, he was all over the state, and making alot of head way, Him being in Florida did not hinder coach Thompson and his recruitment of Georgia.



we didnt sacrifice anything in Georgia.
and us only landing 2 florida kids just isnt accurate, before gran and the Kiffins left, the following Florida kids were Vols: Delvin Jones, N. Robey, Calvin Smith, ralph Williams, Michael Palardy, ted meline, Kenbrell thompkins, and John Brown.


plus we were leading with Corey Lemonier and we were very much in it for Christian Jones.
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Jones had no offers from in state schools, Robey may have but wasn't a big priority, Calvin Smith wasn't being highly pursued except for FSU, Ralph had no instate offers, Palardy was pursued, Meline wasn't really pursued instate, and the other 2 were JUCOs. Like I said, some fall through the cracks, but most weren't pursued. I say treat Florida like a state like California, Texas, or Ohio. Take visits, look at recruits, contact them, but don't waste a ton of time in those areas unless you have a few recruits that you know for sure won't be staying in state and really like the Vols.
 
#36
#36
Gran is a good recruiter but he wasn't getting all of those kids who never committed to UT.
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You dont know what you're talking about all of those kids were headed to tennessee. even with Ralph wavering, we still lead.
By about mid-season, CLK came to the same conclusion I'm trying to convince you of
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You dont have to convince me, I know Georgia is a fertile ground, where have I said it wasnt. the point is having a coach recruit Florida doesnt hinder what we do in Georgia, it just doesnt. thats why we had a coach alotted to the Florida territory, its a part of our recruiting process whether you like it or not.

its why we still have a coach slotted for Florida (Hinshaw) and him being in florida getting kids does not and will not detract from us snagging kids in georgia.
diminishing returns doesnot apply here.
 
#37
#37
JayGunna said:
You dont know what you're talking about all of those kids were headed to tennessee. even with Ralph wavering, we still lead.
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No. They really weren't. You are delusional if you think UT was going to get all of those players with or without Gran or the old staff. AND even if they HAD... the point I'm making is STILL absolutely true. I already acknowledged the old staff might have gotten a few more FL kids. So what, maybe five? How many kids did they chase in FL? Just about all of them.


You dont have to convince me, I know Georgia is a fertile ground, where have I said it wasnt. the point is having a coach recruit Florida doesnt hinder what we do in Georgia, it just doesnt.
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Good Lord... how dense are you going to be on this? I already showed you that travel time to FL steals from recruiting time. I already showed you that two people can recruit an area much more thoroughly than one person. Unless you've figured out a way for someone to be in two places at once... then a coach can't be in Tampa and Thomasville at the same time. Relationships take time. I guarantee if UT doubles its efforts in GA and develops relationships with schools and coaches... it WILL pay higher dividends than devoting one coach there and one to FL.

If you can't understand that you can't spend the same time in two different places doing two different things... then I don't know how to help you.
thats why we had a coach alotted to the Florida territory, its a part of our recruiting process whether you like it or not.
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The old staff realized it was a waste of time to focus on FL. The new staff realized it from the start. Yes, UT will still try to pick off some players from FL. But if they are serious about winning championships then 85%+ of their players will come from TN, GA, and SC. They WILL NOT PULL enough of the top players from Miami, FSU, and UF to compete for the SEC.

its why we still have a coach slotted for Florida (Hinshaw) and him being in florida getting kids does not and will not detract from us snagging kids in georgia.
diminishing returns doesnot apply here.
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That's funny. Put up your textbook.

Let me put this simply. UT has 10 coaches that can recruit. The NCAA has strict limits on when that recruiting can be done. IOW's, there are finite limits to the amount of time available. You can spend that time in Georgia and SC or you can spend it in FL... but you can't spend it twice. The question then becomes "Where do you get the greatest return on your investment?" The answer could not possibly be any more clear... Robert Ayers, I Johnson, Greer, Scott, Myles, Berry, Parker, Young, Hefney,...

The decline of UT's program can be directly tied to losing their hold on GA and SC.
 
#38
#38
textbook? nah. dont need them,graduated in 03
"Yes, UT will still try to pick off some players from FL."
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there will still be a coach recruiting in Florida, no one has said Florida should be our base for recruiting.there you go, when its all said and done we actually do agree.
 
#39
#39
GA is far more important to Tennessee's success than FL will ever be, period.
 
#40
#40
It's a no brainer. While not ignoring FL, don't waste too much resources chasing fantam prospects. Fix UT brand in West Tennessee be a major player in GA, SC, NC, MS and pull what you can from VA, AL, FL, OH, IL, NorthEast and California.
 
#41
#41
I figure I will leave it to the people who recruit and their boss to decide which state we should recruit and what kids to go after because hell they are the ones getting paid for it.


Rusty
 
#42
#42
Ihatethebuckeyes said:
Numbers can be fudged though. I'm not implying these numbers are fudged. But numbers can be fudged. Kinda like how Scout and Rivals, in my personal opinion, do their version of cooking the books when it comes to the star system.
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Women lie Men lie is a song. Its just happens to have a part in it where it says numbers dont lie.
 
#43
#43
I, honestly, like how we are recruiting Florida, though. We stick a guy like Hinshaw down there that has ties along with maybe Rubio. He isn't one of the guys that is expected to bring in a huge haul like a Thompson, though he has potential. If he pulls in a good prospect or two, wonderful. If not, o well, it isn't like we were putting a lot of eggs in his basket. I just hope that we stick one of our better recruiters in the Carolinas and/or Virginia because we can make great pipelines.
 
#44
#44
Seems like a debate on semantics or one for women. I haven't read anyone saying we shouldn't focus on GA. The rest comes down to how much and where else is too much. I don't see the new staff as one to burn excess energy for publicity and recruiting. just look at the limited recruiting information as an example. I expect them to be conservative in all expects of resource mangement especially as it relates to recruiting. The truly high praise I have read about Dooley is focused on his planning and organisation not on his x's and o's. If it's true that bodes well for an intelligent and well planned effort. Less smoke more fire! Makes me think he will double (D) down on GA and any athletes we can visit within 4-8 hours and dedicate a fraction of the remaining time on selected and specific head hunting outside that range. My question is what far flung pipelines might wilcox bring?
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#45
#45
I personally think Wilcox will be a slight recruiting liability to start with.
 
#47
#47
Don't discount what a recruit from FL, once in the UT program, can do to help recruit players from that school. It all helps.
 
#48
#48
sjt18 said:
I personally think Wilcox will be a slight recruiting liability to start with.
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Why so? Because if his personality or background? I don't know a lot about him other than his bio and some posts here. It's why I was wondering what if any pipelines he brings.
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#49
#49
daddyvol said:
Don't discount what a recruit from FL, once in the UT program, can do to help recruit players from that school. It all helps.
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Amen. I just think most were saying we should make GA the bread and butter. Miracle whoop can come from the far flung and team rich states.
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#50
#50
DD4ME said:
Why so? Because if his personality or background? I don't know a lot about him other than his bio and some posts here. It's why I was wondering what if any pipelines he brings.
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Mostly because his entire history is on the west Coast. Once he gets some face time with coaches and players he may be fine. However he's open to some negative recruiting by other SEC coaches due to his age and relative lack of experience.
 
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