Obama Bent Over Backwards

#26
#26
volinbham said:
Saying we were doing nothing is an overstatement on my part. However, we gave no public indication that we supported the cause. Our public statements and actions (saying talks with leadership would go on as planned) indicated we saw disputed elections as final.

We may have been working behind the scenes but our overt actions were not supportive of a regime change.
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Touchy situation, Iranians much like Americans really don't want others to jump in on their business. We took the French approach to the US Revolutionary war. Right or wrong I agreed with our actions.
 
#27
#27
MontereyVol said:
I fail to see your point.
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it means mirandizing and not torturing prisoners doesn't stop us from getting intel and better intel at that

the idea that trying them in a civilian court is dangerous or wrong for some reason doesn't make any sense either.we've tried and sentence hundreds of terrorists that way and nothing bad has ever came from it
 
#30
#30
westsidefan said:
it means mirandizing and not torturing prisoners doesn't stop us from getting intel and better intel at that

the idea that trying them in a civilian court is dangerous or wrong for some reason doesn't make any sense either.we've tried and sentence hundreds of terrorists that way and nothing bad has ever came from it
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Except that they are not American citizens and are not subject to our rights. Like it or not, citizenship has its privileges.
 
#31
#31
MontereyVol said:
Except that they are not American citizens and are not subject to our rights. Like it or not, citizenship has its privileges.
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Not true. If you're in the US, you're subject to our laws and rights. In the same light, if you travel to another country, you're subject to their laws and rights. For example, you can't carry a handgun to a European country where they're banned and claim 2nd amendment rights.
 
#32
#32
MontereyVol said:
Except that they are not American citizens and are not subject to our rights. Like it or not, citizenship has its privileges.
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I think that terrorists can very possibly be considered enemy combatants (on a US battlefield) and not Mirandized, but I don't know if the US-citizen argument is right. If a European citizen is here on vacation and breaks the law, I think that they are actually read Miranda rights.
 
#33
#33
VolInMn said:
Not true. If you're in the US, you're subject to our laws and rights. In the same light, if you travel to another country, you're subject to their laws and rights. For example, you can't carry a handgun to a European country where they're banned and claim 2nd amendment rights.
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Your example only serves to demonstrate that you are not afforded your own country's rights, not whether you are afforded the rights of the country you are in.
 
#34
#34
TennTradition said:
I think that terrorists can very possibly be considered enemy combatants (on a US battlefield) and not Mirandized, but I don't know if the US-citizen argument is right. If a European citizen is here on vacation and breaks the law, I think that they are actually read Miranda rights.
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That's only if that person is here legally and not an enemy of the state.
 
#35
#35
Okay, enough with Iran. They aren't stupid enough to do anything. First of all, they're still years away from having a nuclear weapon of worthy caliber. And even if they do, with all the military we have in the middle east, if the word were to slip out that they were even thinking of nuking us, we'd have them blown off the face of the planet within an hour. You remember FDR's "walk softly, and carry a big stick"? Well, Iran is doing pretty much the opposite of that. And it's gonna backfire on them if they don't wise up a little bit. Them and North Korea both.
 
#36
#36
lumberjack4 said:
That's only if that person is here legally and not an enemy of the state.
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Yes, but this guy on the Christmas day flight did come here legally as far as I know. I don't know where the line for enemy of the state is drawn, but I think that the 'war on terror' gives us the latitude to not Mirandize guys like this. This case is actually a lot like Richard Reid, who was also Mirandized, actually...so it isn't that far out of the norm...but I'm personally OK with not Mirandizing a terrorist.
 
#37
#37
orangepridenation said:
Okay, enough with Iran. They aren't stupid enough to do anything. First of all, they're still years away from having a nuclear weapon of worthy caliber. And even if they do, with all the military we have in the middle east, if the word were to slip out that they were even thinking of nuking us, we'd have them blown off the face of the planet within an hour. You remember FDR's "walk softly, and carry a big stick"? Well, Iran is doing pretty much the opposite of that. And it's gonna backfire on them if they don't wise up a little bit. Them and North Korea both.
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Several things...

1) They may not be years away from a weapon. Depending on how far they have enriched, going from about 5-10% U235 to the enrichment you need for a weapon is actually a small amount of work. Turning the uranium into a functioning weapon is easy if all you want is a 10-100 kiloton weapon. That is enough to do some serious damage. If you are thinking megatons, they are likely several years away.

2) It isn't only us that we would worry about being nuked - it is any ally in the area that is also threatened (really, more so than us, they don't have the missiles to get them to us). Things would change considerably in the middle east with a nuclear-armed Iran...it isn't like this is a non-issue.

3) FDR didn't say that, it was Teddy.
 
#38
#38
This may be the most ignorant thread I've ever had the privilege of reading.

Miranda rights don't have a thing to do with anyone after booking. As long as they are legally considered detainees, Miranda rights wouldn't apply anyways and anything they said while detainees, even if transferred to prisoner status, would still be admissible.

Also, Iran has been under sanctions involving the transfer of money since the mid 2000s, and there isn't a sanction in the book that would stop them from making a nuke if they wanted to bad enough. Nothing short of an invasion would stop them, as they see a nuclear arsenal as their only insurance against a western invasion in the future.

Besides, the theoretical minimum for a nuclear weapon to work is ~32lbs U235 using workarounds. When countries import Uranium for use in nuclear power they deal in hundreds or thousands of tons in which between 1-4% will be U235... A simple centrifuge would be capable of making a weapon within several months.

And despite me not wanting to see Iran with a nuclear weapon, it's actually a fairly popular idea in the Middle East... and they have proposed a Nuclear Free Zone(ala South America/Africa) several times, but Israel vetoes the idea each time.
 
#39
#39
oUTKickedCoverage said:
This may be the most ignorant thread I've ever had the privilege of reading.

Miranda rights don't have a thing to do with anyone after booking. As long as they are legally considered detainees, Miranda rights wouldn't apply anyways and anything they said while detainees, even if transferred to prisoner status, would still be admissible.

Also, Iran has been under sanctions involving the transfer of money since the mid 2000s, and there isn't a sanction in the book that would stop them from making a nuke if they wanted to bad enough. Nothing short of an invasion would stop them, as they see a nuclear arsenal as their only insurance against a western invasion in the future.

Besides, the theoretical minimum for a nuclear weapon to work is ~32lbs U235 using workarounds. When countries import Uranium for use in nuclear power they deal in hundreds or thousands of tons in which between 1-4% will be U235... A simple centrifuge would be capable of making a weapon within several months.

And despite me not wanting to see Iran with a nuclear weapon, it's actually a fairly popular idea in the Middle East... and they have proposed a Nuclear Free Zone(ala South America/Africa) several times, but Israel vetoes the idea each time.
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thank goodness you arrived to salvage this thread. Otherwise, we dummies were going to have to crawl around in ignorance for years trying to piece together crap like theoretical minimums and what's popular in the ME.
 
#40
#40
BigPapaVol said:
thank goodness you arrived to salvage this thread. Otherwise, we dummies were going to have to crawl around in ignorance for years trying to piece together crap like theoretical minimums and what's popular in the ME.
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Yeah, figured it might be a little too relevant for the choir.
 
#41
#41
For the choir!

Great, another mindless drone who preaches marginalization....... yeah.....

:banghead2::banghead2::banghead2::banghead2::banghead2:
 
#43
#43
 
#45
#45
oUTKickedCoverage said:
OIC supports Iran's quest to go nuclear | AFP Newspaper | Find Articles at BNET

Article: Public Opinion Polls in Iran's Neighboring Countries Reveals Large Numbers Support Nuclear-Armed Iran, Also Oppose U.S. Military Action - U.S. Newswire | HighBeam Research - FREE trial

CNN.com - Iraqi minister defends Iranian nuclear program - May 26, 2006

Algeria Supports Iran's Pursuit of Nuclear Power, APS Says - Bloomberg.com

Anwar Sadat Chair for Peace and Development at University of Maryland, College Park

Arab League: Israel's nuclear program more worrying than Iran - Haaretz - Israel News

Iran Wins Backing From Nonaligned Bloc - Radio Free Europe / Radio Liberty 2010

Photo
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It keeps getting worse.......

newbie.jpg
 
#46
#46
oUTKickedCoverage said:
This may be the most ignorant thread I've ever had the privilege of reading.

Miranda rights don't have a thing to do with anyone after booking. As long as they are legally considered detainees, Miranda rights wouldn't apply anyways and anything they said while detainees, even if transferred to prisoner status, would still be admissible.

Also, Iran has been under sanctions involving the transfer of money since the mid 2000s, and there isn't a sanction in the book that would stop them from making a nuke if they wanted to bad enough. Nothing short of an invasion would stop them, as they see a nuclear arsenal as their only insurance against a western invasion in the future.

Besides, the theoretical minimum for a nuclear weapon to work is ~32lbs U235 using workarounds. When countries import Uranium for use in nuclear power they deal in hundreds or thousands of tons in which between 1-4% will be U235... A simple centrifuge would be capable of making a weapon within several months.

And despite me not wanting to see Iran with a nuclear weapon, it's actually a fairly popular idea in the Middle East... and they have proposed a Nuclear Free Zone(ala South America/Africa) several times, but Israel vetoes the idea each time.
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You're spot on in calling us out for our ignorance. I'm pretty ignorant about the topics that I choose to discuss, but I just like to throw out random crap about them anyway..it makes me feel better about myself. It also makes me feel better to know that there are sufficiently bright people out there to notice this and steer all of us ignorant folks in the right direction.
 
#47
#47
westsidefan said:
it means mirandizing and not torturing prisoners doesn't stop us from getting intel and better intel at that

the idea that trying them in a civilian court is dangerous or wrong for some reason doesn't make any sense either.we've tried and sentence hundreds of terrorists that way and nothing bad has ever came from it
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This wasn't some high level operative, like those we tortured to get intel. There is a huge difference in those situations and those with enough intellectual honesty would quickly see the difference.

Take a look back at the number of times we tortured to get intel, those were high value members of terrorists networks who weren't talking.
 
#48
#48
TennTradition said:
You're spot on in calling us out for our ignorance. I'm pretty ignorant about the topics that I choose to discuss, but I just like to throw out random crap about them anyway..it makes me feel better about myself. It also makes me feel better to know that there are sufficiently bright people out there to notice this and steer all of us ignorant folks in the right direction.
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Saviors come in all types of packaging. Thank goodness we found one.
 
#49
#49
TennTradition said:
You're spot on in calling us out for our ignorance. I'm pretty ignorant about the topics that I choose to discuss, but I just like to throw out random crap about them anyway..it makes me feel better about myself. It also makes me feel better to know that there are sufficiently bright people out there to notice this and steer all of us ignorant folks in the right direction.
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I'm glad my employer isn't as wise as he.

Seriously, that was funny as hell.
 
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